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Old 07-13-2013, 03:24 PM   #71
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On a Car with a TVS2300 at 10psi. how much Fuel pressure would I have to be running at WOT to run a 100 shot or less? 40psi/50psi/etc..
Ill let you know next week. We are gonna push the issue and find out.
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Old 07-13-2013, 03:54 PM   #72
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On a Car with a TVS2300 at 10psi. how much Fuel pressure would I have to be running at WOT to run a 100 shot or less? 40psi/50psi/etc..
Short answer is it doesn't matter. If using a wet kit you can be at 40psi or 58psi as long as you have the correct fuel jet to get the a/f where you want it it doesn't mater.

On a 100 shot with 55psi I think it calls for a 33 jet on the fuel side but if running at 40psi you would go bigger say 40 jet instead. The recommended jets are usually pretty rich so you need to test and adjust till you get it where you want it.

I am running a 250 shot using 88N 33F jets and still in the low 11 a/f even though the chart recommends 88N 51F.
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Old 07-13-2013, 04:08 PM   #73
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Short answer is it doesn't matter. If using a wet kit you can be at 40psi or 58psi as long as you have the correct fuel jet to get the a/f where you want it it doesn't mater.

On a 100 shot with 55psi I think it calls for a 33 jet on the fuel side but if running at 40psi you would go bigger say 40 jet instead. The recommended jets are usually pretty rich so you need to test and adjust till you get it where you want it.

I am running a 250 shot using 88N 33F jets and still in the low 11 a/f even though the chart recommends 88N 51F.

My AFR is on the fat side right now 10.7/11.2. So best would be to just start with a 50 jet and go big on the fuel and adjust from there? Not really looking to add a lot of power as much as use it to cool the IAT's some. already using meth but still getting to hot. Only using a 30m/70w mix.

Do you know how to pull timing in the tune? Do I just pull 2 degrees thru the whole table?
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Old 07-13-2013, 05:06 PM   #74
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My AFR is on the fat side right now 10.7/11.2. So best would be to just start with a 50 jet and go big on the fuel and adjust from there? Not really looking to add a lot of power as much as use it to cool the IAT's some. already using meth but still getting to hot. Only using a 30m/70w mix.

Do you know how to pull timing in the tune? Do I just pull 2 degrees thru the whole table?
If you are spraying per blower, IE into the intake tube, your iats will not drop. I noticed no change in iats with my nitrous.
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Old 07-14-2013, 08:20 AM   #75
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I think the wet kits cool the IATs more than dry kits but I don't think I would spray a wet kit pre blower.
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Old 07-14-2013, 08:24 AM   #76
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Without a stand alone fuel system or a bigger in tank set up I would say you're about maxed out with that 100.
Why? My FP is a solid 63 plus, my inj duty cycle is plenty low so they can compensate some if fp does start to drop a little. I'm more concerned with what the motor can take and what the EGTs might look like with my stock cam not having alot of exhaust capabilities.
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Old 07-14-2013, 10:13 AM   #77
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I think the wet kits cool the IATs more than dry kits but I don't think I would spray a wet kit pre blower.

I see people say not to spray a wet shot pre blower and to use a dry kit. But you read Zex site and they say..

Q: What is better, a “wet” or “dry” kit?

A: It all depends on the application. A "wet" kit is ideal for both normally aspirated applications as well as forced induction applications. It can require a little bit more installation time than a "dry" kit, but is easier to tune if greater than stock HP settings are to be experimented with. A "dry" kit is excellent for normally aspirated combinations that have a return style fuel system. They are very easy to install and are a great "first time" nitrous system. It is not recommended that "dry" systems be used on forced induction engines.


And on the Nitrous Outlet site they sell a Wet kit for the Magnacharger that sprays pre blower..

http://nitrousoutlet.com/efi-wet-nit...plate-kit.html
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Old 07-15-2013, 11:04 AM   #78
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I never sprayed pre blower. My concern would be the fuel not being completely atomized. Not saying you can't, just saying to do a good deal of research before you try it.

I do know a decent sized dry kit will require more injector size and alot more tuning and such. A wet kit and an LNC2000 and you can tune your computer for best performance without spraying then adjust your box and jets for best performance on the spray.
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Old 07-15-2013, 11:45 AM   #79
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Another thing to be careful of is the AFR. Nitrous has a different stoich than air, as in, if you were running 100% nitrous and no air you would need to see about 7:1 AFR. There are some online calculators and such that you enter your hp on motor and your shot size and your fuel type and they will tell you about what AFR to run. You might be surprised. High 10's AFR on a 100 shot, and even high 9's AFR on a 200 or so shot are not that uncommon. If you are spraying a 200 shot and are at 11.0 AFR you are likely lean. People not adjusting their AFR as they increase their shot size, and continue to look for an AFR in the 11's, account for many of the lean nitrous backfires and detonation catastrophic failures.
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Old 07-18-2013, 07:19 PM   #80
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Originally Posted by Nitroman28 View Post
My AFR is on the fat side right now 10.7/11.2. So best would be to just start with a 50 jet and go big on the fuel and adjust from there? Not really looking to add a lot of power as much as use it to cool the IAT's some. already using meth but still getting to hot. Only using a 30m/70w mix.

Do you know how to pull timing in the tune? Do I just pull 2 degrees thru the whole table?
You can do it that way or just pull timing only after a certain rpm and load. Datalog a run and if you have a window switch set to start spraying at say 3000 rpm then you start pulling timing in that row/column not before. Loot at where you are in the grams/cylinder under WOT and pull timing there no need to pull timing everywhere but you can if you don't know the before mentioned info.

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Originally Posted by dan0617 View Post
Another thing to be careful of is the AFR. Nitrous has a different stoich than air, as in, if you were running 100% nitrous and no air you would need to see about 7:1 AFR. There are some online calculators and such that you enter your hp on motor and your shot size and your fuel type and they will tell you about what AFR to run. You might be surprised. High 10's AFR on a 100 shot, and even high 9's AFR on a 200 or so shot are not that uncommon. If you are spraying a 200 shot and are at 11.0 AFR you are likely lean. People not adjusting their AFR as they increase their shot size, and continue to look for an AFR in the 11's, account for many of the lean nitrous backfires and detonation catastrophic failures.
I'm going to have to call BS on this unless you can explain it better or post some links. The nitrous in nitrous oxide is just a buffer it's the oxygen that is being used so it doesn't mater if it gets it from the atmosphere or n20 it' still oxygen.

I am spraying 250 right now with A/F in the mid 11's with a goal of 11.8-12.2 and soon to be 300 shot
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Old 07-18-2013, 08:20 PM   #81
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No bs. Trust me. Www.yellowbullet.com. Click on the forum link, Search on there. 250 shot and 11's AFR is lean. Nitrous has more oxygen molecules per volume than air. The more of your power that comes from nitrous the lower the AFR needs to be. Up to a 150 shot on big motor you are likely fine, since n/a you could run 12.7:1 but you spray and run 11.5:1. But going up in the 200's you are getting borderline. Lean but a forged motor might survive. Read the plugs and you should see what I mean.

You spray a 300 on 12:1 pump gas and ill bet you have trouble finding any spark plugs that won't melt. Richen up to 10:1 and plugs won't melt and it will make as much, if not more power. 10:1 won't be rich because your wideband is calibrated in air but you are adding a substance that has more oxygen molecules per volume than air.
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Old 07-18-2013, 08:43 PM   #82
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http://www.nitrousforum.com/forums/a...php/t-738.html

http://www.robietherobot.com/nitrousjetcalculator.htm

http://www.hotrodders.com/forum/air-...up-106850.html

http://www.yellowbullet.com/forum/sh...ad.php?t=46318
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Old 07-18-2013, 11:59 PM   #83
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I was spraying two 300hp foggers into a small block ford with a a/f ratio of 11.6 w/o a problem for years.

first kit came on soon as I let off the t-brake, the second .16 of a second after that. I was running VP C23 thou, no pump gas
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Old 07-19-2013, 03:01 PM   #84
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I was spraying two 300hp foggers into a small block ford with a a/f ratio of 11.6 w/o a problem for years.

first kit came on soon as I let off the t-brake, the second .16 of a second after that. I was running VP C23 thou, no pump gas
I don't know the setup but I'm guessing retarded timing and the cool burn of the race fuel kept it out of detonation. I'd bet an AFR of 10:1 would have made more power. Unless it was near 1000 hp without the spray.

On my nitrous cars I have always made more power and higher 1/4 mile mph with the AFR gauge reading just about what it calculates out to by the formulas in the links in the post above. I always used motor AFR of 12.7 and nitrous NFR of 6.0. If spraying a boosted motor I use motor AFR of 11.7. If running E10 and gauge is set up for it, then boost AFR of 11.2 and NFR of 5.5. It always works, never a backfire or melted plug since I started calculating target AFR on spray this way and power has always been higher than just targeting an 11.5.

On a smaller shot you can get away with a NFR of 7:1.

These numbers are for the calculation. You aren't to run an AFR of 6 or 7 to 1. You would only run that if you were running all nitrous and no air.
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