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Old 07-14-2009, 08:13 AM   #1
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Exclamation Camaro SS manual shipment (not production) hold officially confirmed by GM (UPDATED)

As reported on homepage.


**********UPDATE @ 11:30am EST ***********

We've just received word that the plant has received the go ahead to begin shipping some of the LS3 cars including some which were built this week! Not a model wide problem after all! More news in the Bayed thread. -- Hylton

For those of you with a Camaro SS on hold, be sure to get updates on your car in our “Bayed and QC Hold Tracking Thread” for daily status.

******************************************

______________________________________________

It's been officially confirmed to us by an official at GM that there is currently a temporary hold on the shipment of Camaro SS models with manual transmissions. The hold affects only V8 models with manual transmissions currently in production, and does not affect V8 automatics nor any V6 models. The following release comes direct from a GM representative to us:

Quote:
Here's our statement on the matter:

Our engineering team is reviewing data related to the performance of the manual transmission on the Camaro SS, and have temporarily stopped shipment of this model to the dealers.

This only impacts Camaro SS models with manual transmission in production. Camaro SS with automatic transmission, and Camaro LS and LT models are not affected and will continue to be shipped to dealers.

Since this is an "in production" review, we are NOT requesting vehicles be returned for any service or dealer deliveries stopped as a result of this action.
Some update/clarification -- no hold on production, just on shipments

from Adam Denison, Assistant Manager of Chevy Product Communications

Quote:
No hold on production, just on shipment. Our engineering team is reviewing data related to the performance of the manual transmission on the Camaro SS and has temporarily stopped shipment of this model. This only impacts Camaro SS models with manual transmission. Camaro SS with automatic transmission, and Camaro LS and LT models are not affected and will continue to be shipped to dealers. We're working closely with our dealer network to minimize any inconveniences this may cause for the customers. Hope this helps! Thanks.


To all members who ordered SS manuals and would like updates on whether your car has been built and has shipped or is being held, please head over to our tracking threads for updates --> http://www.camaro5.com/forums/showthread.php?t=31614

No word yet on potential recalls, if any. We'll bring you updates as they come in to us, so stay tuned.
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Old 07-14-2009, 08:16 AM   #2
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So now we wait to see if there's a recall on ours?
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Old 07-14-2009, 08:17 AM   #3
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So now we wait to see if there's a recall on ours?
That is a very real possibility. Stay tuned.
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Old 07-14-2009, 08:21 AM   #4
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No recall please. Fingers crossed
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Old 07-14-2009, 08:21 AM   #5
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So now we wait to see if there's a recall on ours?
I've asked for clarification on the matter. Since there have been no early cars breaking, I think it is a bad "batch" of something.
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Old 07-14-2009, 08:36 AM   #6
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It is getting harder and harder to support GM. First their management runs the company into the ground. They take tons of taxpayer money, which will never be repaid. GM takes 3 years to get this car to market and apparently it has so many design flaws that every week we hear of a new major issue. Yes I consider L99s with no power and transmission shafts shearing under normal driving conditions a major flaw. I drive 2 American cars because that's what I prefer. But really, when was the last time you heard of Honda launching a new vehicle with these issues?

Not to mention, the UAW works a back room deal with the white house for salaries and benefits that far exceeds the market average. Obviously, that doesn't translate into better quality. Before I get flamed here, loose nuts on spoilers, A pillars not installed properly, and major paint issues are all indications of poor workmanship. GM's design has nothing to do with failing to adequately tighten 4 nuts on the spoiler. That is a half ass work ethic and nothing else.

I am a system engineer. I currently work on procurement and development of aviation platforms. I have designed and written test and evaluation protocols for new systems. As someone who is very familiar with writing requirements and their associated tolerances, I am amazed at what I see slipping through GM's process. GM has got to know they are under a microscope. I personally want to see the American Auto industry come back. This is not helping.
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Old 07-14-2009, 08:38 AM   #7
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It will be interesting to see what they find out and if it will be a recall of all manual cars or if they can determine that only a certain range of cars will be affected.

Hopefully they find out soon and keep everyone posted!

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Old 07-14-2009, 08:42 AM   #8
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Originally Posted by usmcjlp View Post


It is getting harder and harder to support GM. First their management runs the company into the ground. They take tons of taxpayer money, which will never be repaid. GM takes 3 years to get this car to market and apparently it has so many design flaws that every week we hear of a new major issue. Yes I consider L99s with no power and transmission shafts shearing under normal driving conditions a major flaw. I drive 2 American cars because that's what I prefer. But really, when was the last time you heard of Honda launching a new vehicle with these issues?

Not to mention, the UAW works a back room deal with the white house for salaries and benefits that far exceeds the market average. Obviously, that doesn't translate into better quality. Before I get flamed here, loose nuts on spoilers, A pillars not installed properly, and major paint issues are all indications of poor workmanship. GM's design has nothing to do with failing to adequately tighten 4 nuts on the spoiler. That is a half ass work ethic and nothing else.

I am a system engineer. I currently work on procurement and development of aviation platforms. I have designed and written test and evaluation protocols for new systems. As someone who is very familiar with writing requirements and their associated tolerances, I am amazed at what I see slipping through GM's process. GM has got to know they are under a microscope. I personally want to see the American Auto industry come back. This is not helping.
I bought this car because I love the design and it's american. But I never had any issues like this with any of my european vehicles I have owned. I sold a perfectly good two year old BMW for this car and now I'm scratching my head trying to figure out if this was a good idea or not.
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Old 07-14-2009, 08:48 AM   #9
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Originally Posted by usmcjlp View Post


It is getting harder and harder to support GM. First their management runs the company into the ground. They take tons of taxpayer money, which will never be repaid. GM takes 3 years to get this car to market and apparently it has so many design flaws that every week we hear of a new major issue. Yes I consider L99s with no power and transmission shafts shearing under normal driving conditions a major flaw. I drive 2 American cars because that's what I prefer. But really, when was the last time you heard of Honda launching a new vehicle with these issues?

Not to mention, the UAW works a back room deal with the white house for salaries and benefits that far exceeds the market average. Obviously, that doesn't translate into better quality. Before I get flamed here, loose nuts on spoilers, A pillars not installed properly, and major paint issues are all indications of poor workmanship. GM's design has nothing to do with failing to adequately tighten 4 nuts on the spoiler. That is a half ass work ethic and nothing else.

I am a system engineer. I currently work on procurement and development of aviation platforms. I have designed and written test and evaluation protocols for new systems. As someone who is very familiar with writing requirements and their associated tolerances, I am amazed at what I see slipping through GM's process. GM has got to know they are under a microscope. I personally want to see the American Auto industry come back. This is not helping.
That’s because Honda would not allow the information to leak out what you see here is unprecedented amount of information for a new car because so many people here have ties to the inside info. If you come to this site for better or worse you have information overload so why don't you go back to the Honda forum and be happy with all 6 people on there even if you don't own a Honda. If you’d like to stay stop the whole the world is ending and GM is crap stuff. All new cars have problems, btw I'll keep my crapy camaro and its good cv joints any day over a honda. How long have they been making cars and they still can't get that right?
Anyhow I've owned a Honda and like them but no car is perfect.

As far as the UAW God knows I'm no fan but the deal they worked out was the percentage of ownership in the company goes into a fund to pay for their health benefits that offsets the cost to the company and on average they took 20% paycut if not more.
Your probably a fan of Fox news so am I but don't I beleive every word Fox news says offcourse not I've seen the twist the truth to make their point more appealing. By far they are not as bad as CNN going the other way but if your going to say something at least research the information before saying it is fact.
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Old 07-14-2009, 08:48 AM   #10
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Quote:
Originally Posted by usmcjlp View Post


It is getting harder and harder to support GM. First their management runs the company into the ground. They take tons of taxpayer money, which will never be repaid. GM takes 3 years to get this car to market and apparently it has so many design flaws that every week we hear of a new major issue. Yes I consider L99s with no power and transmission shafts shearing under normal driving conditions a major flaw. I drive 2 American cars because that's what I prefer. But really, when was the last time you heard of Honda launching a new vehicle with these issues?

Not to mention, the UAW works a back room deal with the white house for salaries and benefits that far exceeds the market average. Obviously, that doesn't translate into better quality. Before I get flamed here, loose nuts on spoilers, A pillars not installed properly, and major paint issues are all indications of poor workmanship. GM's design has nothing to do with failing to adequately tighten 4 nuts on the spoiler. That is a half ass work ethic and nothing else.

I am a system engineer. I currently work on procurement and development of aviation platforms. I have designed and written test and evaluation protocols for new systems. As someone who is very familiar with writing requirements and their associated tolerances, I am amazed at what I see slipping through GM's process. GM has got to know they are under a microscope. I personally want to see the American Auto industry come back. This is not helping.
Umm ok, how about the new GTR when Launch Control is used it can seriously damage the vehicle when done too many times and Nissan is refusing the warranties!

or how about when the VW New Beetle was released in 1998 ALL OF THEM WERE RECALLED due to the fuse box on top of the battery possibly catching fire.

I had a 2000 Toyota Celica and the Spoiler bolts had the same problem

New 2009 VW Jetta's have a recall due to the driveshaft bolts backing out of the transmission.

I could go on and on with vehicle issues that have nothing to do with GM but I thnk you get the idea.

You are a systems engineer, good for you. I'm sure you took extensive classes in that field. IT IS NOT THE AUTOMOTIVE FIELD. It may be similar but it is not the same.

I give GM alot of credit for not allowing these cars to leave the plant due to a potential issue.

Quote:
GM has got to know they are under a microscope.
I'm sure GM is fully aware they are under a microscope which is probably why they are not allowing these cars to leave the factory and they are trying to resolve the problem in-house before they have to release an extensive recall.

I am waiting for a 2SS/RS/LS3 So my wait just got longer. I would much rather wait than have a broken car sitting on a lift in my GM dealership waiting for a part while I am still making payments on the car.
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Old 07-14-2009, 08:52 AM   #11
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I bought this car because I love the design and it's american. But I never had any issues like this with any of my european vehicles I have owned. I sold a perfectly good two year old BMW for this car and now I'm scratching my head trying to figure out if this was a good idea or not.
That is my point exactly. This car has the design elements necessary to win over buyers who have have the means to purchase a BMW or other import if it will simply deliver on the specs promised. That is what GM needs to regain market share. The chevy faithful are a strong demographic but not large enough by themselves to put GM on top again.

I would venture to say this site is frequented by avid car fans. Your average buyer doesn't take the time to do this much research. They won't consider these "minor" issues. It will not take that many of these incidents to change public opinion, which is already negative towards GM. I just don't see that GM gets it.
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Old 07-14-2009, 08:55 AM   #12
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18xxxVIN here. Starting in first gear is not the smoothest in my car. Getting some vibrations at higher speeds but I need to confirm this on different roads due to different surfaces. Hopefully I am being paranoid only! Will watch this thread closely.
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Old 07-14-2009, 08:55 AM   #13
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A couple of thoughts --

To those who are 'fed up' with GM and "American Products" --

Every manufacturer has issues such as this.

The issue is a supplier problem and it DOES NOT INVOLVE EVERY 6-speed manual transmission.


Once again I'll say this: there IS a downside to sharing information....and this is a perfect example of it.

We could clam up and perhapsyou'd never know about it...but to the Camaro Team, that would not be the right thing to do.

If you think that BMW and Mercedes and other foreign manufacturers don't have similar issues, you're wrong.

WHAT I RECOMMEND: (....from a PERSONAL viewpoint......)


DO NOT do 6,000 RPMS and then DUMP the clutch.

That's a foolish thing to do....regardless of what you are driving.

I'm not saying you have to 'baby' the car -- but don't go out and 'flog hell outta it!"

Meanwhile - we will have more info. as details develop.
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Old 07-14-2009, 08:55 AM   #14
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This statement also said that we would be the first to know of further update later today. So I would just say this. Camaro5.com will be among if not the first to know real and factual information regarding the MN6 issue. I have an MN6 tranny myself as does Hylton and I can assure you that I am not changing my driving plans and going to worry or speculate about this issue. The term recall has never come up from GM regarding the subject. So with this said please help out your fellow members and try to avoid wild uncontrolled speculation and wait for the facts to come out. You are members of the best information source in the industry and as seen in yesterday's Auto Blog, they come here for information as well.

By the way I am going to the track tomorrow night and test my baby out again and do so without a second thought.
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Old 07-14-2009, 08:56 AM   #15
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That is my point exactly. This car has the design elements necessary to win over buyers who have have the means to purchase a BMW or other import if it will simply deliver on the specs promised. That is what GM needs to regain market share. The chevy faithful are a strong demographic but not large enough by themselves to put GM on top again.

I would venture to say this site is frequented by avid car fans. Your average buyer doesn't take the time to do this much research. They won't consider these "minor" issues. It will not take that many of these incidents to change public opinion, which is already negative towards GM. I just don't see that GM gets it.
You just killed your whole point. The average car buyer will never even hear about these issues. Shoot, the average car buyer doesn't buy a MANUAL SS!!!!! GM is doing the right thing and fixing it. What else do you want? Unless you've written procurement docs on a time machine, your whining won't get us anywhere.

And btw, what would a systems engineer that writes documents know about mechanical tolerances and differences in metallurgy?
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Old 07-14-2009, 09:01 AM   #16
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Old 07-14-2009, 09:02 AM   #17
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You just killed your whole point. The average car buyer will never even hear about these issues. Shoot, the average car buyer doesn't buy a MANUAL SS!!!!! GM is doing the right thing and fixing it. What else do you want? Unless you've written procurement docs on a time machine, your whining won't get us anywhere.

And btw, what would a systems engineer that writes documents know about mechanical tolerances and differences in metallurgy?
Yeah agreed! Lets not turn this into a "speculate and guess" or a "Lets bash GM" thread like the last large thread about this issue.

I'm happy GM is responding quickly to the issue.
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Old 07-14-2009, 09:04 AM   #18
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I wish they would have given us some kind of time frame about when the cars on hold will be fixed.
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Old 07-14-2009, 09:05 AM   #19
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Yeah agreed! Lets not turn this into a "speculate and guess" or a "Lets bash GM" thread like the last large thread about this issue.

I'm happy GM is responding quickly to the issue.
AGREED! Please don't let your emotions get the best of you when posting.

Let's please all comments respectful and mature. Again, we'll bring you updates as soon as we find out.

Thank you.
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Old 07-14-2009, 09:05 AM   #20
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18xxxVIN here. Starting in first gear is not the smoothest in my car. Getting some vibrations at higher speeds but I need to confirm this on different roads due to different surfaces. Hopefully I am being paranoid only! Will watch this thread closely.
14000+ here and i still will drive it like a muscle car thats what it is and it's under warranty right?
Quote:
Originally Posted by fbodfather View Post
A couple of thoughts --

To those who are 'fed up' with GM and "American Products" --

Every manufacturer has issues such as this.

The issue is a supplier problem and it DOES NOT INVOLVE EVERY 6-speed manual transmission.


Once again I'll say this: there IS a downside to sharing information....and this is a perfect example of it.

We could clam up and perhapsyou'd never know about it...but to the Camaro Team, that would not be the right thing to do.

If you think that BMW and Mercedes and other foreign manufacturers don't have similar issues, you're wrong.

WHAT I RECOMMEND: (....from a PERSONAL viewpoint......)


DO NOT do 6,000 RPMS and then DUMP the clutch.

That's a foolish thing to do....regardless of what you are driving.

I'm not saying you have to 'baby' the car -- but don't go out and 'flog hell outta it!"

Meanwhile - we will have more info. as details develop.
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Old 07-14-2009, 09:06 AM   #21
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I wish they would have given us some kind of time frame about when the cars on hold will be fixed.
My understanding is that they don't quite know what the problem is and what the fix is. Once they get that, they should be able to set up a time frame and will hopefully let everyone know.
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Old 07-14-2009, 09:08 AM   #22
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What about the "VW Sludge" issue for 1.8Turbo vehicles throghout the mid 2000's. I know my B5.5 is in that range, and that VW will no longer cover the issues. Additionally, they have a known issue where Timing Belts break at 60K miles (yet vehicle maint. manual says replace at 100k miles NOT 60k), and any damage caused by the Timing Belt breaking is not covered under Warranty.

I would have NEVER known these issues if I was not part of ClubB5. Be careful what you wish for... if you want info, you come to an enthusiasts website, but you also get an information overload of good and bad.

Trust me, these issues are small in comparison... because at least they are recognizing the issues and rectifying them. Before I broke out the pitch forks and torches, I'd wait until GM refuses to fix it, and gives you the bill for a broken shaft. THATS when you can call GM crap.
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Old 07-14-2009, 09:08 AM   #23
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Old 07-14-2009, 09:10 AM   #24
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I would hope that if a recall isn't issued...that warranty repairs for this failure are 'easy' from a paperwork/approval standpoint.
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Old 07-14-2009, 09:12 AM   #25
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I wonder if that means if a dealer has lets say 2 allocations 1 manual 1 Auto manual ordered first would that be bumped or just put on hold in same order????
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