Camaro5 Chevy Camaro Forum / Camaro ZL1, SS and V6 Forums - Camaro5.com
 
ADM PERFORMANCE
Go Back   Camaro5 Chevy Camaro Forum / Camaro ZL1, SS and V6 Forums - Camaro5.com > Engine | Drivetrain | Powertrain Technical Discussions > Forced Induction - V6

Forced Induction - V6 V6 Supercharger, turbo, nitrous discussions

Reply
 
Thread Tools
Old 07-24-2013, 07:13 PM   #51
Can't_C_Me
Don't Sleep on My V6
 
Can't_C_Me's Avatar
 
Drives: 2011 1LT M6 TT/ NEW 2013 Malibu 1LT
Join Date: Dec 2010
Location: Oxford, GA
Posts: 3,459
Are my eye playing tricks on me or do the cams GretchenGotGrowl posted different than the one you received? I don't know much about cams so enlighten me plz someone plz.

Sent from my Samsung Galaxy S III
__________________
Can't_C_Me is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-24-2013, 08:26 PM   #52
elsololobo02
 
elsololobo02's Avatar
 
Drives: 2014 ZL1
Join Date: Oct 2010
Location: San Diego
Posts: 244
Quote:
Originally Posted by Can't_C_Me View Post
Are my eye playing tricks on me or do the cams GretchenGotGrowl posted different than the one you received? I don't know much about cams so enlighten me plz someone plz.

Sent from my Samsung Galaxy S III
Gretchen,

What year/month did you buy your LLT? I bought mine in November 2010 and I have to say from your pictures that my stock cams do not look at all like yours. Anyone have any ideas on this? I can't spend $960.00 getting my stock cams re-installed if they are not really my old ones.

Tracy is it a posibility you sent the wrong cams? do you still have my stock ones? Please respond.
elsololobo02 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-24-2013, 08:32 PM   #53
elsololobo02
 
elsololobo02's Avatar
 
Drives: 2014 ZL1
Join Date: Oct 2010
Location: San Diego
Posts: 244
Quote:
Originally Posted by elsololobo02 View Post
Gretchen,

What year/month did you buy your LLT? I bought mine in November 2010 and I have to say from your pictures that my stock cams do not look at all like yours. Anyone have any ideas on this? I can't spend $960.00 getting my stock cams re-installed if they are not really my old ones.

Tracy is it a posibility you sent the wrong cams? do you still have my stock ones? Please respond.

Thank god I took a picture of my stock cams while at Rx. MACE cams are in the Fed Ex box right in front. Definitely not the same.
Attached Images
 
elsololobo02 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-24-2013, 08:41 PM   #54
Can't_C_Me
Don't Sleep on My V6
 
Can't_C_Me's Avatar
 
Drives: 2011 1LT M6 TT/ NEW 2013 Malibu 1LT
Join Date: Dec 2010
Location: Oxford, GA
Posts: 3,459
Quote:
Originally Posted by elsololobo02 View Post
Thank god I took a picture of my stock cams while at Rx. MACE cams are in the Fed Ex box right in front. Definitely not the same.
Yeah those aren't the same cams he sent you back. Wow how many more mistakes can be made? And these aren't small mistakes.

Sent from my Samsung Galaxy S III
__________________
Can't_C_Me is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-24-2013, 08:44 PM   #55
BaylorCamaro
Track > 1/4 Mile
 
BaylorCamaro's Avatar
 
Drives: 2013 ZL1
Join Date: Sep 2009
Location: Kemah, TX
Posts: 4,968
Sure does look different.
__________________
557 rwhp / 525 rwtq (PFADT Headers / Roto-Fab Intake / Ported LSA TB / ID 850 Injectors / Ron Davis Heat Exchanger / D3 Reservoir / Detroit Speed Sways & Endlinks)
Automotive YouTube Channel / MSR Houston / Grandsport Speedway / Camaro5 Fest V CamaroCross / Build Thread / Automotive Forums - Creating more drama than a teenage girl in high school.
BaylorCamaro is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-24-2013, 08:49 PM   #56
sycraft
COTW 5/06/2013
 
sycraft's Avatar
 
Drives: 2012 Camaro LS "Hot Blown Six"
Join Date: May 2012
Location: Katy, Texas
Posts: 2,775
just checked oe cam pricing, about 100 bucks each cam, hope you get the oe cams back
__________________

2012 LS M6,ZL1Brakes, OEM Foglights (BCM Flashed for Fogs),4 Pack Guages, Factory Reproduction Wheels,Nitto NT05 tires 275/315 stagger, Leather OEM Steering Wheel,Hurst Shifter, GM Hurst Leather Shifter knob,OEM Leather Console top,Carbon Fiber Stripe Package,Emblems with Carbon overlays, ZL1 Grill,LSR Stage 4 susp,1LE Strut Brace, SOLO Cats and Exhaust, 1LE Struts/shocks, IPF Supercharger-Redline Motorsports, FSP Tuning
sycraft is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-24-2013, 09:36 PM   #57
elsololobo02
 
elsololobo02's Avatar
 
Drives: 2014 ZL1
Join Date: Oct 2010
Location: San Diego
Posts: 244
Well I e-mailed Rx and hope to have an answer in the AM. Provided pics of my old cams and the ones they sent.
elsololobo02 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-24-2013, 10:04 PM   #58
Netraa
 
Drives: 2011 RS vert
Join Date: May 2012
Location: Kyle, Texas
Posts: 141
Honestly, those cams look to be the same, with the assumption that the VVT actuators are on the new mace cams and are in the car.
Netraa is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 07-24-2013, 10:16 PM   #59
sycraft
COTW 5/06/2013
 
sycraft's Avatar
 
Drives: 2012 Camaro LS "Hot Blown Six"
Join Date: May 2012
Location: Katy, Texas
Posts: 2,775
thet are different, top ones stock cams that were removed, lower was what was returned to him. definately different. probably being so busy it was a mistake on his shipper...
Attached Images
  
__________________

2012 LS M6,ZL1Brakes, OEM Foglights (BCM Flashed for Fogs),4 Pack Guages, Factory Reproduction Wheels,Nitto NT05 tires 275/315 stagger, Leather OEM Steering Wheel,Hurst Shifter, GM Hurst Leather Shifter knob,OEM Leather Console top,Carbon Fiber Stripe Package,Emblems with Carbon overlays, ZL1 Grill,LSR Stage 4 susp,1LE Strut Brace, SOLO Cats and Exhaust, 1LE Struts/shocks, IPF Supercharger-Redline Motorsports, FSP Tuning
sycraft is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-24-2013, 10:42 PM   #60
GretchenGotGrowl


 
GretchenGotGrowl's Avatar
 
Drives: `12 LFX/`11 EB F-150/`13 Sonic RS
Join Date: Sep 2010
Location: Little Rock, AR
Posts: 5,464
Quote:
Originally Posted by elsololobo02 View Post
Gretchen,

What year/month did you buy your LLT? I bought mine in November 2010 and I have to say from your pictures that my stock cams do not look at all like yours. Anyone have any ideas on this? I can't spend $960.00 getting my stock cams re-installed if they are not really my old ones.

Tracy is it a posibility you sent the wrong cams? do you still have my stock ones? Please respond.
Took delivery in Mar 2010. Forget build date, but I think it was early Feb.
__________________
EFR Twin Turbo LFX-GPI Tune-ZL1 fuel pump-10:1 CR forged pistons-3.45 gear-Meth Injection-BMR Trailing Arms, Bushings & Sway Bars-CircleD 4000 Stall-GPI Fuel Enrichment System
647 RWHP & 726 RWTQ @18.5 psi on 93 Octane (locked converter)
1/8 mile -- 7.158 @ 102.10 (20psi); old build
Build Thread
GretchenGotGrowl is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-25-2013, 08:30 AM   #61
elsololobo02
 
elsololobo02's Avatar
 
Drives: 2014 ZL1
Join Date: Oct 2010
Location: San Diego
Posts: 244
Quote:
Originally Posted by GretchenGotGrowl View Post
Took delivery in Mar 2010. Forget build date, but I think it was early Feb.
Copy that, wanted to see if maybe there might have been a different prodution line of cams with GM from say one build month to another. Obviosluy that is not the case here.

Quote:
Originally Posted by SC2150 View Post
Yes!!! Sent wrong ones!!!! Good catch.

Right ones on the way.

Dang.
Ok, look forward to getting them in and re-installed. A full refund for the cams via paypal would be great!
elsololobo02 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-25-2013, 05:46 PM   #62
Netraa
 
Drives: 2011 RS vert
Join Date: May 2012
Location: Kyle, Texas
Posts: 141
yeah, now that i'm looking at them on a computer and wake, i see the difference clear as day.
Netraa is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 07-26-2013, 01:10 PM   #63
elsololobo02
 
elsololobo02's Avatar
 
Drives: 2014 ZL1
Join Date: Oct 2010
Location: San Diego
Posts: 244
Update #2

Rx stated they sent my stock cams out and agreed to a refund amount. Which is good because I will need those funds to get my stock cams put back in on August 7th at a local speed shop. Hope that check comes soon for the full amount!

I also sent a e-mail to Steve with MACE engineering. I let him know my dilema and told him the codes that I am getting on a daily basis, even after I clear them, time and time again. FYI the codes are P0300-P0306 (clylinder misfires, all of them) and P2187 too lean at idle bank 1/ P2189 too lean at idle bank 2.

Here is Steves response..
"I can understand Vince's pain as his concerned about people unfairly giving him negative feedback over a product which has been flawed up until recently. However the misfire issues that you're experiencing have 100% been sorted now with the latest cam grind we have. The main reason for the misfire is the inlet cam on bank 1 is out be 2 degrees compared to the inlet on bank 2. Once this is corrected there is no miss in anyway shape, insuring that the engine is mechanically sound and drivable even with the factory calibration".

Steve was super quick to get back to me by the way. With the above statement in mind it seems like none of the previous versions of cams will be able to be tuned properly unless you have this new grind that corrects the inlet cam bank by 2 degrees.

I no nothing about cams so anyone with knowledge please chime in. I did write Steve back to ask if the corrected grinds have been manufactured yet as I bought mine in June. I haven't heard back from him yet.
elsololobo02 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-26-2013, 01:22 PM   #64
GretchenGotGrowl


 
GretchenGotGrowl's Avatar
 
Drives: `12 LFX/`11 EB F-150/`13 Sonic RS
Join Date: Sep 2010
Location: Little Rock, AR
Posts: 5,464
Yeah, 2 degrees is pretty big. If I remember right, 1 tooth off is 4 degrees and your car would run pertty poorly. Maybe ye can get you the latest grind. That way if you decide to switch back later you will have them.
__________________
EFR Twin Turbo LFX-GPI Tune-ZL1 fuel pump-10:1 CR forged pistons-3.45 gear-Meth Injection-BMR Trailing Arms, Bushings & Sway Bars-CircleD 4000 Stall-GPI Fuel Enrichment System
647 RWHP & 726 RWTQ @18.5 psi on 93 Octane (locked converter)
1/8 mile -- 7.158 @ 102.10 (20psi); old build
Build Thread
GretchenGotGrowl is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-26-2013, 02:51 PM   #65
esponda
 
Drives: V6 LT/RS
Join Date: Jan 2012
Location: MD
Posts: 95
I wonder what grind I have now......
esponda is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-26-2013, 02:56 PM   #66
elsololobo02
 
elsololobo02's Avatar
 
Drives: 2014 ZL1
Join Date: Oct 2010
Location: San Diego
Posts: 244
Quote:
Originally Posted by esponda View Post
I wonder what grind I have now......

When did you buy your cams and were you able to get your car tuned properly? If so who tuned it and when?
elsololobo02 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-26-2013, 02:56 PM   #67
GretchenGotGrowl


 
GretchenGotGrowl's Avatar
 
Drives: `12 LFX/`11 EB F-150/`13 Sonic RS
Join Date: Sep 2010
Location: Little Rock, AR
Posts: 5,464
The shop you have should be able to put it on a cam wheel and give you a general idea.
__________________
EFR Twin Turbo LFX-GPI Tune-ZL1 fuel pump-10:1 CR forged pistons-3.45 gear-Meth Injection-BMR Trailing Arms, Bushings & Sway Bars-CircleD 4000 Stall-GPI Fuel Enrichment System
647 RWHP & 726 RWTQ @18.5 psi on 93 Octane (locked converter)
1/8 mile -- 7.158 @ 102.10 (20psi); old build
Build Thread
GretchenGotGrowl is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-26-2013, 02:58 PM   #68
elsololobo02
 
elsololobo02's Avatar
 
Drives: 2014 ZL1
Join Date: Oct 2010
Location: San Diego
Posts: 244
Quote:
Originally Posted by GretchenGotGrowl View Post
Yeah, 2 degrees is pretty big. If I remember right, 1 tooth off is 4 degrees and your car would run pertty poorly. Maybe ye can get you the latest grind. That way if you decide to switch back later you will have them.

So Gretchen, the only way to fix the 2 degree issue is to get the corrected grinds or can you tune it out so to speak?
elsololobo02 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-26-2013, 03:01 PM   #69
esponda
 
Drives: V6 LT/RS
Join Date: Jan 2012
Location: MD
Posts: 95
Quote:
Originally Posted by elsololobo02 View Post
When did you buy your cams and were you able to get your car tuned properly? If so who tuned it and when?

My car is currently in the shop getting the install. I got these ones end of June from Steve after returning the original grind I got in August last year.

As for tune, your guess is as good as mine, I got the same message from Trifecta....
esponda is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-26-2013, 03:07 PM   #70
GretchenGotGrowl


 
GretchenGotGrowl's Avatar
 
Drives: `12 LFX/`11 EB F-150/`13 Sonic RS
Join Date: Sep 2010
Location: Little Rock, AR
Posts: 5,464
Quote:
Originally Posted by elsololobo02 View Post
So Gretchen, the only way to fix the 2 degree issue is to get the corrected grinds or can you tune it out so to speak?
I don't really know. I would think they could if both intake cams were ground the same way. I don't know if they can do it with one side being 2 degrees different than the other.
__________________
EFR Twin Turbo LFX-GPI Tune-ZL1 fuel pump-10:1 CR forged pistons-3.45 gear-Meth Injection-BMR Trailing Arms, Bushings & Sway Bars-CircleD 4000 Stall-GPI Fuel Enrichment System
647 RWHP & 726 RWTQ @18.5 psi on 93 Octane (locked converter)
1/8 mile -- 7.158 @ 102.10 (20psi); old build
Build Thread
GretchenGotGrowl is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-26-2013, 03:33 PM   #71
elsololobo02
 
elsololobo02's Avatar
 
Drives: 2014 ZL1
Join Date: Oct 2010
Location: San Diego
Posts: 244
Quote:
Originally Posted by ASH@IPF-TUNING View Post
Hello everybody !

From my experiance a set of NA cams with bigger overlap and more valve lift can be working in the FI engine ... but the Chance that you get happy with the result is very rare !

We designed our own cam for the GM 4zyl 2.0T Market in Europe and it wend the way that we made a new Inlet cam with higher valve lift and NO bigger overlap with the stock exhaust cam ...
All other NA Tuning cams were NOT working with our Turbos ... Turbo spool delayed ... power loss .. only for very small engine Speed Areas some power gains..

So back to the FI camaro Problem :

BUT .... we Need an AFM housing on the intake side like factory that must be 100mm Diameter not to max out the AFM sensor ... because when you put the AFM sensor into the pressure side of the boost System then you are running into many Problems like sensor poisening by oil dust ... boost pressure heat is a additiona Problem and for last ... this sensor was NEVER designed by Bosch to be used on the pressure side of the engine System ! !

normally we can do this Job very easy ... we managded to rise the original fuelling Limits of the BOSCH ECU in the LLT so we have until 10-12PSI no fuelling Problems !

With a singel Turbo application that should be possible to create... set the max boost by external boost control at low RPM low and rise it by engine Speed until redline like the centrifugal SC ... the LLT engine is running with very high compression Ratio to handle the high boost at low engine Speeds ... i dont like getting conrods looking out of the block or parts of the Piston falling into the oilsump !

We only worry about the Situation that ... parts combined together without propper testing and combination ... and at the END WHEN ist not running propperly ... ist ALWAYS the Software ... of course !!

But I CAN NOT FIX Hardware related Problems with the ECU calibration !!

So .. best way would be ... get the car to Arizona .. put it on the dyno and we can take care of it .. BUT PLEASE without CAMS ... they are not nessesary here in my personal opinion !

Greets ASH@IPF-TUNING
Arno, Since the BOSCH ECU was not designed to be on the pressure side of the system. To aide in tuning would it be possible to move the MAF say 3 meters (remote turbo) to the inlet air fliter to the turbo with some fabrication keeping all tube lengths and diameters stock. Would a concept like this help or not with the tunning of a LLT that is FI?

Last edited by elsololobo02; 07-26-2013 at 04:01 PM.
elsololobo02 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-26-2013, 10:12 PM   #72
elsololobo02
 
elsololobo02's Avatar
 
Drives: 2014 ZL1
Join Date: Oct 2010
Location: San Diego
Posts: 244
Quote:
Originally Posted by esponda View Post
My car is currently in the shop getting the install. I got these ones end of June from Steve after returning the original grind I got in August last year.

As for tune, your guess is as good as mine, I got the same message from Trifecta....

I hope you purchased the corrected grind. I would hate to see anyone else go through this. Hopefully MACE can give you a solid answer. Like Arno said and I have learned that they can't tune for faulty hardware. I wish the the best of luck esponda and keep us posted on what you find out.

Arno did PM'd me on my last question in the above posting. He did say that it would be much better to move the MAF sensor to the inlet side (filter area) of the turbo rather than keep on the pressure side. Makes complete sense the way he explained it. So I'll be taking some measurements this weekend and compiling a parts list to fab a stock like intake tube with MAF sensor port to go on the inlet side. Then simply seal current MAF sensor location. This might help out some of the other remote turbo bubbas.

This will by no means fix the cam situation. Only re-installing the stock cams will fix that. But hopefully the MAF relocation project will aide in making a more solid tune.

I seriously can't thank the members enough here on the forums for all of your inputs and trying to help me out. I am by no means trying to feed trolls or create hate and discontent here on the forums. I am merely sharing my experience candidly as I want to make this an educational experience to inform others so the same mistakes are not made twice. I am happy to see how many people have viewed this thread and really appreciate all of the member contributions!
elsololobo02 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-27-2013, 11:01 AM   #73
elsololobo02
 
elsololobo02's Avatar
 
Drives: 2014 ZL1
Join Date: Oct 2010
Location: San Diego
Posts: 244
Alright so here is the cake topper. You guys won't believe this!!


So I am out in the driveway taking measurements for the MAF relocation I plan on doing and I take a look at the turbo. I measure the inlet side and low and behold the inlet is 2.5".


I thought this can't be the Borg Warner 7670 EFR spec sheet states/shows the inlet is 3.5" So I then proceed to clean the dirt off the metal id tag on the turbo. Wait for it....!!! It is a 6258 single scroll!! WTF!!!


I have attached the sales receipt so all can view that even though it doesn't give a model number in the description it does say twin scroll and I have the e-mails to say it was supposed to be the 7670.


Tracy what the hell is going on here?!
Attached Images
 
elsololobo02 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-27-2013, 11:05 AM   #74
blackTT600

 
Drives: 2011 2LT M6 SC
Join Date: Jan 2011
Location: South Florida
Posts: 915
WOW!!! thats a BIG FU@K UP!!
blackTT600 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-27-2013, 11:24 AM   #75
GretchenGotGrowl


 
GretchenGotGrowl's Avatar
 
Drives: `12 LFX/`11 EB F-150/`13 Sonic RS
Join Date: Sep 2010
Location: Little Rock, AR
Posts: 5,464
That's not good. Way to small for a single setup on our cars.

Sent from my note 10.1 with luv.
__________________
EFR Twin Turbo LFX-GPI Tune-ZL1 fuel pump-10:1 CR forged pistons-3.45 gear-Meth Injection-BMR Trailing Arms, Bushings & Sway Bars-CircleD 4000 Stall-GPI Fuel Enrichment System
647 RWHP & 726 RWTQ @18.5 psi on 93 Octane (locked converter)
1/8 mile -- 7.158 @ 102.10 (20psi); old build
Build Thread
GretchenGotGrowl is offline   Reply With Quote
 
Reply

Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump


All times are GMT -5. The time now is 11:50 PM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.7
Copyright ©2000 - 2014, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.