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Old 07-30-2013, 10:45 AM   #1
ssmike
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Pads and rotors for track (HPDE) use?

Quick question for you guys in intermediate or advanced groups at HPDE road course events, what brake pads/rotors do you use? I was told to ditch the slotted/drilled rotors in favor of the stock solids because the drilled can crack when put to hard use. I also am running with Hawk Performance ceramic pads which sucked on the track. What pads are good for lower dust than OE but good track manners while not chewing up the rotors? JusticePete recommended the stock pads but is there a good set of pads that are better than OE? Someone mentioned Carbotech pads (I think). Thanks!
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Old 07-30-2013, 11:26 AM   #2
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Check this link which has a lot of brake info:

http://www.camaro5.com/forums/showthread.php?t=294470

I know some of the old school guys say solid rotors only but Racing Brake's rotors are designed with the particular type of slot that doesn't have this cracking problem. They also run about 150° cooler than comparable rotors, as well as being about 6 lbs lighter than the factory solid rotors. They have several levels of excellent track pads depending on your braking style.

They aren't the cheapest option out there but you get what you pay for and they are especially good for road course use.
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Old 07-30-2013, 11:30 AM   #3
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I mentioned Carbotech. They are good to learn on and get up into the intermediate group but these are "pad swap" brake pads not to be used on the street, unless you like squealing. XP-12 front and XP-8 rear and you get them from ctbbrakes.com. I used to buy them prebed to cut down on the bedding process.

I recommend slotted rotors. Racing brake makes the best but you pay for them. DBA 5000 then 4000 would be next. I run the 4000 because that is what I could afford at the time and they have lasted the last year and a half, track and street. IIRC JDP has them at good prices.

T.
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Old 07-30-2013, 01:11 PM   #4
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RacingBrake open slot rotors with RacingBrake XT960 pads will devastate all. They run cooler, weigh less, and stop on a dime.
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Old 07-30-2013, 01:24 PM   #5
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I have the Stillen 1 piece slotted/drilled rotors now and of course Stillen says they'll be fine. Has anyone had experience with them? I have a limited budget so I am thinking of pads only and choosing either my stock rotors or keep the Stillens on there if they'll be OK!
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Old 07-30-2013, 01:25 PM   #6
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I love these questions about brake pads for track that will stop better than OE, with no dust...pick one, because both ain't happening. I'm running Cobalt Friction pads and they are not quiet on the street, but they stop awesome...your not going to find a pad that does both street and track well, as track pads tend to be noisy. The other issue is price, my pads were hella expensive, so are Carbotech's, and the cast off lots of brake dust... Good luck with whatever you pick for pads...
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Old 07-30-2013, 01:28 PM   #7
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A solid rotor or a slotted rotor would be your best bet. When you get slotted, the slots create a clean swipe of the pad every time so you can get the maximum amount of force on the pads, where as the solid rotor does not. Drilled rotors can crack on the track, you are correct, but it's very unlikely if it's a good quality rotor.

I'd go with StopTech Slotted, and then Hawk HP Plus pads if you want pure performance with no drawbacks (they do squeak), or go with HPS pads if you want performance without the noise and extra brake dust.
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Old 07-30-2013, 01:29 PM   #8
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yea, I'm thinking I'll probably run low dust pads for street and then change them to track pads for track day. Hawk HPE's any good?

Edit: I meant Hawk HPS
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Old 07-30-2013, 02:17 PM   #9
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You will not find anything low dust thats excellent at the track. Hawk HPS will fail just as quick as the ceramics. You'll either need to accept the fact that you need to run 2 sets of pats or decide on your priority of low dust or good track performance. You will not have your cake and eat it too.

DTC-30's is the minimum I would go but they're not all that easy on rotors. Either rotors or pads will be a significant recurring expense. Pick your poison.
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Old 07-30-2013, 03:34 PM   #10
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Don't buy or use cheap drilled or slotted rotors. use the "race" ones only if u get any. they are designed 2 be that way, not an after thought addition 2 a smooth rotor.

I have the HPS' on my 6 pistons
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Old 07-30-2013, 06:08 PM   #11
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Quote:
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I recommend slotted rotors. Racing brake makes the best but you pay for them. DBA 5000 then 4000 would be next. I run the 4000 because that is what I could afford at the time and they have lasted the last year and a half, track and street. IIRC JDP has them at good prices.

T.
Thanks for the recommendation TBone!

DBA Rotors and the Hawk DTC-XX pads are what I would recommend for track duty. Like others said, for actual road racing you will never find a pad up to the task of track duty while still being street friendly and little dust. Most people who want both have to swap pads between track days.

Feel free to call, PM or email me anytime with questions. We have great pricing on DBA and Hawk and get you set up with a nice package at a very nice price.

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Old 07-30-2013, 06:58 PM   #12
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Quote:
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yea, I'm thinking I'll probably run low dust pads for street and then change them to track pads for track day. Hawk HPE's any good?

Edit: I meant Hawk HPS
HPS are great for autocross....I have used HPS pads on the track, if the session is not real long, they will work ok, for a short time 10 to 15 minutes at a time. If you are doing repeated sessions for 20-25 minutes at a time, the second session they will go away on you....so, the longer you plan to be out on the track, that is when you need to step up with the real track pads...also, make sure you have upgraded your brake fluid to higher temp with steel braided lines...
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Old 07-30-2013, 08:39 PM   #13
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The last HPDE event at Gingerman were 20 minute sessions with 40 minute cool downs. I think HPS would be OK in that scenario. My ceramic pads lasted but weren't very strong from the get go! I do have DOT 4 fluid in the system and Racing Brake stainless steel brake lines.
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Old 07-30-2013, 10:45 PM   #14
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Listen to the wise ones here Mike.

HPS is decent for Autocross but not a "Track". It just can't stand up for long periods. Especially once you start going to larger tracks.

Hawk DCT-XX are tough on rotors but good.

Carbotech is easier on rotors and good intermediate pads.

Cobalt Friction is excellent for the big dogs.

If you already have rotors, use them but watch them for cracks. Once they crack, get better ones.

T.
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The drag strip is like sniffing glue, it's cheap, it's a decent buzz, it doesn't last long and they are all the same.
Road racing is like China White Heroin, the buzz is stronger, the high lasts for hours, it's extremely addictive and they are all different.
I can't wait for my next
Track fix.
DA HAWKS used to OWN DA CUP!!!!!
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Old 08-01-2013, 09:07 AM   #15
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Quote:
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Listen to the wise ones here Mike.

HPS is decent for Autocross but not a "Track". It just can't stand up for long periods. Especially once you start going to larger tracks.

Hawk DCT-XX are tough on rotors but good.

Carbotech is easier on rotors and good intermediate pads.

Cobalt Friction is excellent for the big dogs.

If you already have rotors, use them but watch them for cracks. Once they crack, get better ones.

T.
Thanks T good advise!
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Old 08-01-2013, 09:21 AM   #16
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Quote:
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Listen to the wise ones here Mike.

HPS is decent for Autocross but not a "Track". It just can't stand up for long periods. Especially once you start going to larger tracks.

Hawk DCT-XX are tough on rotors but good.

Carbotech is easier on rotors and good intermediate pads.

Cobalt Friction is excellent for the big dogs.

If you already have rotors, use them but watch them for cracks. Once they crack, get better ones.

T.
All this ↑↑↑ .

HPS can probably work at a track day on a track that's easy on brakes and if the driver remains conscious of the fact that it's still a street pad.

A step up in the Hawk line would be the HP+, which are entry-level track pads with a semblance of streetability (meaning that they actually do have decent cold bite). They will make noise and they will dust like crazy just like any other track pad. Expect to outgrow these as well, as your skills improve and your speeds increase (yes, they can be faded).


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Old 08-01-2013, 12:49 PM   #17
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Would you guys be happier with stock rotors and pads for street and Cobalt Friction pads for track days or CTS-V stock rotors and pads for street and track? I am planning on upgrading to CTS-V pads when my 1LE comes in but it is stretching what I'm willing to spend on brakes. Both options will cost me close to the exact same amount of money.

I will definitely run a few autoX and a few PDX events, one at Daytona and possibly 2 at Sebring (1 club & 1 full course). My local track PBIR may start a new program for cheap track time once a month.

I ran Hawk HP+ with RB rotors, braided lines at Daytona no problems. At the Sebring Club course I was fine for 119 minutes and 57 seconds of the (4) 20 minute sessions. Literally the brakes went on me as I was pulling off the track, the club course ends with a big stop from 120mph to a sharp hairpin turn. Too noisy for me on the street though, they never stopped squealing and screeching.
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Old 08-01-2013, 01:21 PM   #18
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Since you already have RB rotors, stick with those and use their XT910 or XT960 track pads. I've been using their ET500 pads for a couple years now and that includes track days. These were all they had at the time but these pads have held up very well; worked on the track (although they were dusty) without squeal. They now have their actual track pads which are the XT series and I'm planning on probably going XT960 fronts and keep the ET500 on the rear for track. The ET500 has been a great street pad; no noise and minimal dust.
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Old 08-01-2013, 08:53 PM   #19
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please dont waste your money on HPS. stock pads are better than HPS. go HP plus at least. HP Plus would be a compromise that you could run for both. they squeal and they make dust but they stop decent and they wont wear your rotors bad so that you can run them on the street.
since you are on a budget, id say just get some HP plus pads for the front. make sure you have hi temp fluid in there and bleed before every event. i dont know those rotors that you are running but if they are slotted all the way through then id guess that freshly turned stock rotors would probably be better.
ceramic pads are for a Bentley. as someone else said. if they stop, then they will squeal and make dust.
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Old 10-23-2013, 03:26 PM   #20
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I'm in the same boat with all of you track guys, pads or rotors; that is the question!
This year I've budgeted $600 for front rotors & pads replacements.
600 miles of track later, I’ve replaced 2 set of front pads and 2 pair of front rotors.
Unless you dish out $$$ to get the best 2-Piece rotors available like RB, DBA, PFC… rotors will have to be replace. (often)
The OEM Rotors are good, if you warped them (lightly) you can resurface them and used them for quite some time after.
The second set this year was EBC slotted with dimples which are less sturdy them the OEM.

The OEM pads are good for light track duty at a beginner level.
Once you decide to attack corner while trail breaking they will overhead and burn. When That happens, you warp your rotors at the same time.
My second set of pad this year is un mentioned on this forum..yet…PFC Z-rated pads.
I very happy with their track performance since they are more of a track pad then a street pad. More info on them here:http://www.camaro5.com/forums/showthread.php?t=307038

The good news is that I'm still running on my OEM Rear rotors & pads!! wow...33K miles with more than 2K of track time. Impressive or not?
Why aren't they used more?
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Old 10-23-2013, 03:41 PM   #21
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Would you guys be happier with stock rotors and pads for street and Cobalt Friction pads for track days or CTS-V stock rotors and pads for street and track? I am planning on upgrading to CTS-V pads when my 1LE comes in but it is stretching what I'm willing to spend on brakes. Both options will cost me close to the exact same amount of money.

I will definitely run a few autoX and a few PDX events, one at Daytona and possibly 2 at Sebring (1 club & 1 full course). My local track PBIR may start a new program for cheap track time once a month.

I ran Hawk HP+ with RB rotors, braided lines at Daytona no problems. At the Sebring Club course I was fine for 119 minutes and 57 seconds of the (4) 20 minute sessions. Literally the brakes went on me as I was pulling off the track, the club course ends with a big stop from 120mph to a sharp hairpin turn. Too noisy for me on the street though, they never stopped squealing and screeching.
We have been using our slotted stock CTSV rotors with Hawk DTC -30 pads for the last two years one set on our 2010 SS camaro and our 2013 1LE. they work very well for track use.We also use Colbalt friction for heavy road racing they are very good,expensive and dirty but they stop very well.We also use SRF brake fluid in all of the cars we track at $80.00 a qt it is expensive but much cheaper than brake fade at the wrong place.
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Old 10-23-2013, 04:15 PM   #22
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2 years of street and Heavy track use and my DBA 4000's finally gave up in spectacular fashion.

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I used these on the street with the Carbotech Bobcat pads and on the track with Carbotech XP12's the first year and Cobalt Friction XR-1's this year. They never warped and always performed as expected. I loved them and they will be missed.....

As others have mentioned, I highly recommend the Cobalt Friction Pads. Not only do they work FANTASTICALLY on the track but their customer service is awesome. If you have not tried them yet please do, you will not be sorry.

I am now looking at the ROI of 6 pot CTSV/ZL1 front brakes or the Z/28. Since I basically use my car at the track more than the street, or getting to the track, it kinda makes sense to me.


T.
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The drag strip is like sniffing glue, it's cheap, it's a decent buzz, it doesn't last long and they are all the same.
Road racing is like China White Heroin, the buzz is stronger, the high lasts for hours, it's extremely addictive and they are all different.
I can't wait for my next
Track fix.
DA HAWKS used to OWN DA CUP!!!!!
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Old 10-23-2013, 06:27 PM   #23
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Holy crap Tim! Looks like you're really pushing the car to it's limits! Pete will be proud!
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Old 10-23-2013, 07:17 PM   #24
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Would you guys be happier with stock rotors and pads for street and Cobalt Friction pads for track days or CTS-V stock rotors and pads for street and track? I am planning on upgrading to CTS-V pads when my 1LE comes in but it is stretching what I'm willing to spend on brakes. Both options will cost me close to the exact same amount of money.

I will definitely run a few autoX and a few PDX events, one at Daytona and possibly 2 at Sebring (1 club & 1 full course). My local track PBIR may start a new program for cheap track time once a month.

I ran Hawk HP+ with RB rotors, braided lines at Daytona no problems. At the Sebring Club course I was fine for 119 minutes and 57 seconds of the (4) 20 minute sessions. Literally the brakes went on me as I was pulling off the track, the club course ends with a big stop from 120mph to a sharp hairpin turn. Too noisy for me on the street though, they never stopped squealing and screeching.
What happened when your brakes went? Did you boil the fluid and got a soft pedal, or did you overheat the pads and got a hard pedal? I tracked Corvettes at Ron Fellows school and boiled the fluid on three seperate sessions in the Grand Sports. Yikes, pedal to the floor but no stopping! Scary. The ZR1 CCBs and Z06 steel brakes were awesome. The Z06s ran Hawk HP+, the school has had excellent luck with them. They are in the process of converting all the Grand Sports and Z06s to HP+ pads.

I ran HP+ pads, stock rotors, Motul 600 fluid and stainless lines in my Camaro last weekend at Buttonwillow. Stopped fantastic, rotors are healthy. I'm hard on brakes, I was running 2:02's and 2:03's in the advanced group which is fairly quick for that track. The HP+ pads will last me 4 track days. I'm going to use them again. They have excellent cold bite and have not made any noise on the street yet. When I run Laguna Seca, I may step up to a more aggressive track pad. But so far the HP+ pads have been an excellent choice.
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Old 10-23-2013, 07:55 PM   #25
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Well after reading all the posts I think the smart thing for me to do is to install the stock rotors back on and ditch the drilled ones! For my style of driving, that being novice, I have decided to go with HP+ pads with the stock rotors and calipers, and Motul 600 fluid. Next year as I graduate to intermediate driving I'll definatly invest in CTS-V upgrade for the front and maybe Cobalt Friction pads like TBone runs! This way I can have time to save some mod money and still participate in a couple HPDE's now, well after winter anyway!
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