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Old 07-30-2013, 04:11 PM   #18
oachalon

 
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Dont do this why? Its not structural metal if sealed up properly there is no harm in doing this. I work in a body shop if you saw the way cars are fixed this is nothing.
I would never cut into a body of a car if I didn't have to. By cutting into the body even if you sealed it up you just opened up a spot for corrosion to exist. I would be pissed if I took my car to someone and they just cut a hole in the body to replace the fuel pump. That is not the correct way of doing things. If GM wanted an access panel there, they would have put one there, they didn't.
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Old 07-30-2013, 05:07 PM   #19
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Originally Posted by oachalon View Post
I would never cut into a body of a car if I didn't have to. By cutting into the body even if you sealed it up you just opened up a spot for corrosion to exist. I would be pissed if I took my car to someone and they just cut a hole in the body to replace the fuel pump. That is not the correct way of doing things. If GM wanted an access panel there, they would have put one there, they didn't.

We could if all day. If GM wanted a Edelbrock E-Force Supercharger, 3.25" Pulley, Roto-Fab CAI, Stainless Power LT Headers, MSD BAP they would have put it there. But that didn't stop you. GM didn't put a panel there so you would have to bring it to them to get it fix when it goes out. My 02 Impala had a factory access panel.
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Old 07-30-2013, 06:23 PM   #20
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We could if all day. If GM wanted a Edelbrock E-Force Supercharger, 3.25" Pulley, Roto-Fab CAI, Stainless Power LT Headers, MSD BAP they would have put it there. But that didn't stop you. GM didn't put a panel there so you would have to bring it to them to get it fix when it goes out. My 02 Impala had a factory access panel.
So you proved my point. Your 02 Impala has an access panel and your Camaro does not. There is a reason why GM did not put one in the Camaro and did put one in the Impala. 98% of the people with or without an access panel are still not going to fix their car themselves. The last thing I want is to cut a hole where there is not supposed to be a hole. They might not have put an access panel there for many reasons, possibly concerns of vapors, exhaust gases, structural integrity that you dont know about, possibly salt kicks up there in the winter, etc. The proper way to replace the fuel pump in this car is to drop the tank not to cut a hole in the body.
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Old 07-30-2013, 08:34 PM   #21
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Use a dremel. Cut VERY shallow, ONLY as deep as the metal is thick because the lines could be up close to the bottom of the metal.

When all done I sanded and primered the edges, put a heavy bead of caulking around the square and put down a super thick piece of reinforced rubber from a used conveyor belt.

Right or wrong I did it and I'm glad I did. Bash me if you want but it's my car and Ill do as I please. GM didn't put an access hole, doesn't mean you shouldn't add one. GM didn't put a supercharger either but everyone here added one.
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Old 07-30-2013, 08:39 PM   #22
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Put in the ADM FPCM while you are in there and have your tuner put the parameters in your tune. If you don't have a tune yet and are going with remote tuning consider Jannetty with the SCT, you won't regret it. If you are going for big power go with a twin pump now. 600 rwhp or more put in a MSD BAP with the ZL1 pump and the ADM FPCM. That is a nice setup but price quickly approaches the twin pump setup.

550 rwhp through auto = 600 rwhp if stick. ZL1 pump and ADM FPCM will handle that. Won't handle much more without BAP. With BAP added you should be good to about 650 or so through auto. AFR might look good above these numbers but FP will start trailing off. At that point you are relying on your injector size to "make up the difference" and save the day.

Large injectors, like the ID850's, add a nice safety cushion and allow alot of room to grow but they aren't cheap!
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Old 07-30-2013, 09:48 PM   #23
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Guys, if I decided to go the MSD 'BAP' route at this point, I assume that I could still upgrade to the ZL1 pump later, correct? I'm just not sure if I will go much past 500-550 rwhp? Just trying to weigh all of the options
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Old 07-30-2013, 09:51 PM   #24
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You 100% for sure absolutely can. I have no idea how much rwhp the stock pump and MSD BAP is good for. I love my MSD but never used it with the stock pump so I can't help you on that one.

I have datalogs that show the ZL1/ADM combo running out of steam on an L99 with headers and 11.5 psi at about 6100 Rpms. I then installed a BAP and am good to 12 psi and a 125 shot up through 6250 Rpms. No dyno papers tho, not how I dial it in.
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Old 07-30-2013, 10:00 PM   #25
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You 100% for sure absolutely can. I have no idea how much rwhp the stock pump and MSD BAP is good for. I love my MSD but never used it with the stock pump so I can't help you on that one.
I have Jannetty do all of my tuning as well. He says that the stock pump with the MSD is actually better than some people think. Should be good for up to 550 rwhp, but probably not more? That's my issue. I will likely stop at this level and he's pretty confident that the stock pump/MSD combo will be just fine. It's good to know that if I decide to go this route, I can upgrade to the ZL1 pump later. I think my bigger road block to getting any more than 550 rwhp will be my LS9 injectors? I'm not sure what level they are good to? Another reason that I might stop at 550 rwhp. Thoughts.
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Old 07-31-2013, 07:38 AM   #26
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I love my ID850 injectors. I was using the LS9 injectors at first but when I saw my pressure dropping and the injectors were near maxed out, I knew I wasn't far from a disaster.

In all honesty you can get away with pressure trailing off a little if the injectors are oversize, and you can get away with injectors running near max if your fuel system keeps the pressure up, but being borderline with both is playing with fire.

500 to 550 rwhp through the auto is no slouch. If you just put in a BAP then make sure you datalog and watch pressure and injector duty cycle closely. I think your injectors and your fuel supply will both be about maxed out.

IMO I would at least do the ZL1/ADM combo. ID 850 injectors would be next. Maybe not a necessity at this point but the LS9's will be up in duty cycle and leave no safety margin. MSD can always be added in the future. I know it isn't cheap but you are likely not far from being maxed out already.
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Old 07-31-2013, 09:38 AM   #27
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I love my ID850 injectors. I was using the LS9 injectors at first but when I saw my pressure dropping and the injectors were near maxed out, I knew I wasn't far from a disaster.

In all honesty you can get away with pressure trailing off a little if the injectors are oversize, and you can get away with injectors running near max if your fuel system keeps the pressure up, but being borderline with both is playing with fire.

500 to 550 rwhp through the auto is no slouch. If you just put in a BAP then make sure you datalog and watch pressure and injector duty cycle closely. I think your injectors and your fuel supply will both be about maxed out.

IMO I would at least do the ZL1/ADM combo. ID 850 injectors would be next. Maybe not a necessity at this point but the LS9's will be up in duty cycle and leave no safety margin. MSD can always be added in the future. I know it isn't cheap but you are likely not far from being maxed out already.
Ok, thanks man. I appreciate the advice.
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Old 07-31-2013, 10:31 AM   #28
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I have 60# injectors 3.6 pulley with just ZL1 fuel pump and 586 rwhp,,, all is ok,,,
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Old 07-31-2013, 12:05 PM   #29
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I have 60# injectors 3.6 pulley with just ZL1 fuel pump and 586 rwhp,,, all is ok,,,
Do you happen to have a log of a quarter mile WOT run logging injector duty cycle, fuel pressure, and AFR? If you don't, all might not be ok!
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Old 07-31-2013, 12:10 PM   #30
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Do you happen to have a log of a quarter mile WOT run logging injector duty cycle, fuel pressure, and AFR? If you don't, all might not be ok!
never have raced it 1/4 mile,,, but it was tuned and built by livernois motorsports.
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Old 07-31-2013, 12:24 PM   #31
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A drag strip is the only legal and safe place to do a sustained WOT pull. I suggest that you go to a test N tune day at a track. You do not need to "race" anyone, just make a couple of passes (even solo) and log the injector duty cycle and fuel pressure. It would also be nice to see your shift points, timing, boost, and iat. I'm not implying that you ever do any WOT driving off track, but the power plant does not know if the car is on the highway or the track. It can also be damaged on the street if it leans out due to insufficient fuel during WOT.
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Old 07-31-2013, 01:05 PM   #32
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thanks for your suggestion,,,,but the way my car is driven I don't see a need to go through all that,,, i'll trust the tune that dan millen put in my car... livernois does extensive tuning and driving of your car while its at there facility.
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Old 07-31-2013, 03:25 PM   #33
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I have 60# injectors 3.6 pulley with just ZL1 fuel pump and 586 rwhp,,, all is ok,,,
Without a ADM FPCM the ZL1 pump doesn't do alot more than the stock pump. Ill bet your pressure is dropping towards the top of each gear. OK if the injectors are big enough. 60's aren't bad. But for the OP, no sense in upgrading to just 60's.
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Old 07-31-2013, 05:44 PM   #34
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Without a ADM FPCM the ZL1 pump doesn't do alot more than the stock pump. Ill bet your pressure is dropping towards the top of each gear. OK if the injectors are big enough. 60's aren't bad. But for the OP, no sense in upgrading to just 60's.
I trust what livernois motorsports did on my car,,, it runs strong, but honestly on the street the power is unusable...

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