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2013 Fest Discussions (IV) Fest VI discussions.

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Old 08-07-2013, 06:35 PM   #51
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I just re-read this part of your earlier post. So, you're all upset about how this show was judged and what cars won and you weren't even there???
I'm not upset about it. I just wanted to know how cars were chosen to win.

And so what I wasn't there?

This thread accomplished 3 things:
1) answered the question of how the show was judged
2) educated people on how car shows worked
3) started a conversation about whether or not there should be changes to the judging in future shows

None of the above is bad.
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Old 08-07-2013, 06:51 PM   #52
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Hello all...

+1 +2 +3 and +4 to many of the comments said.

My modified 67 and my modified 2010 with color matched stripes I painted to tie in my 1st Gen, they both received a Camaro Disciples pick. I was honored.

But the big surprise was my 67 earning the Best of Show!

So before anybody flames me winning this.....

I agree to as what was said, points judges and fun awards judges look at the added features/things on the same car in different views, as I have learned and experienced with my my 67.

This car, for quick history was built and done for the 40th Anniversary tour of the Camaro in 2007 That year I hauled it everywhere, from Camaro Nationals, Camaro Superfest, GM Nationals, Chevy-Vette Fest, Super Chevy Show, several GoodGuys, Midwest Camaro Nationals, Camaro Fall Classic, and even the big event at GM Heritage Hall where it was also the 50th year of the classic 57 Chevy. Yup I and a few other Camaros were in a sea of fins! (was even thought it was most 57's in one place except the time they were being built) Lately in the last 3 years, been auto-x'ing the hell of of it, at lots of Goodguys (was desiring to zip it thru the CamaroCross, but this event is for enjoying the 5th gen's)

As similar to Lawdog said on his Camaro attended shows, same for me that year 2007 My 67 won a lot of: 1st, 2nd and 3rd places, Best of Shows, Best Motor and etc etc etc. What always was weird was on these shows, "major Camaro events", I was up against the SAME 4-6 Camaro's in what was then called the Pro-Touring class, earning different levels of wins is why I experienced the "different views from different judges" on same Camaros in other shows. I always had fun!

So, this years Camaro5Fest, as I walked around, enjoying the Camaros, with a lot of different set-up's, stock with a lot of show features, many the same, with slight tweaks, some with huge performance features. The IN club people that did the picks for the class award's...... you had some work cut out for ya which I'll assume you also had fun. Great job, and thanks for the both person that told me to enter my 2010, since I said "not in the league for show", which he replied "ya never know!"

So Thanks for all that put on this event. Its a lot of work! .... maybe the special feature that I listed on the 67 that helped me win the Best of Show, you need to go find a October 2008 Playboy issue. Its in there with some very naked .... well lets just say those 2 girls were smiling

See ya in Texas!

Tim
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Old 08-07-2013, 08:37 PM   #53
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HuJass, when you can pull down two first place and one second place trophies by three separate teams of professional ISCA judges 8 judges each year, on an indoor car show for three consecutive days, For three years in a row,come talk to me, otherwise, stop the nonsense!

Last edited by lawdog; 08-07-2013 at 08:49 PM.
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Old 08-08-2013, 05:22 AM   #54
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HuJass, when you can pull down two first place and one second place trophies by three separate teams of professional ISCA judges 8 judges each year, on an indoor car show for three consecutive days, For three years in a row,come talk to me, otherwise, stop the nonsense!
Dude, there's no nonsense here.
Just a person wanting to know how the judging worked, so as to understand how winners' cars were chosen.
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Last edited by GTAHVIT; 08-08-2013 at 09:07 AM. Reason: no need to get snippy...
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Old 08-08-2013, 08:57 AM   #55
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I was asked to judge a show once..... Made one person really happy and pissed of 20.
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Old 08-08-2013, 09:23 AM   #56
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Lets add to the car show part of the fest. 2nd let's just leave the award part we have now alone. Most of them help build ,designe,sell, or promote these cars and should be able to choose what car they like .
Now if we could have a second show that fits in line with a full judged show that might make some a bit happier.
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Old 08-08-2013, 10:12 AM   #57
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I was asked to judge a show once..... Made one person really happy and pissed of 20.
I LOL'd at this from so many different angles. Mostly my own experiences.

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Lets add to the car show part of the fest. 2nd let's just leave the award part we have now alone. Most of them help build ,designe,sell, or promote these cars and should be able to choose what car they like .
Now if we could have a second show that fits in line with a full judged show that might make some a bit happier.
You guys would have to trailer those cars. Houston brings out some killer show only cars. Traveling to the fest is one thing that prevents white glove judging. Just can't see it happening.
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Old 08-08-2013, 11:32 AM   #58
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I don't necessarily think you need to have "white glove" judging.
You just need to split up stock & modified cars.
Keep judging modified cars the way you are now.
And judge stock cars with concours show rules.

Cleanliness can be just a visual thing.
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Old 08-08-2013, 11:34 AM   #59
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Originally Posted by HuJass View Post
I don't necessarily think you need to have "white glove" judging.
You just need to split up stock & modified cars.
Keep judging modified cars the way you are now.
And judge stock cars with concours show rules.

Cleanliness can be just a visual thing.
I think I seen 5 stock Camaros there.... all getting test drove.
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Old 08-08-2013, 11:37 AM   #60
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Maybe people aren't bringing their stock Camaros out because the show seems to cater to modified cars?

If stock Camaro owners felt like they could win a trophy with their cars, they may come out.
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Old 08-08-2013, 11:54 AM   #61
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Maybe people aren't bringing their stock Camaros out because the show seems to cater to modified cars?

If stock Camaro owners felt like they could win a trophy with their cars, they may come out.
There's a lot more to C5Fest than a car show. Stock Camaros were on the drag strip and autox along with all the other social functions. I believe we've heard your view enough in this thread and it's time to move on. Thanks,
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Old 08-08-2013, 12:09 PM   #62
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I believe we've heard your view enough in this thread and it's time to move on. Thanks,
Interesting.
Instead of having a conversation about how to improve an event to be more inclusive of all Camaro owners, you tell me to just shut my mouth and go away.

Not sure if you are a mod or not, but if you are, way to run a forum.
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Old 08-08-2013, 12:26 PM   #63
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Originally Posted by HuJass View Post
Interesting.
Instead of having a conversation about how to improve an event to be more inclusive of all Camaro owners, you tell me to just shut my mouth and go away.

Not sure if you are a mod or not, but if you are, way to run a forum.
You're not beating a dead horse at all are you.

We've listened. we've replied.

We've conceded that we're not perfect, there's room for improvement. we're not trying to be official.

you've communicated that doesn't appeal to you. We've acknowledged that...

And now the show is over, We are grateful to those who put in a ton of time to volunteer to run the car show.

And you continue reiterate you aren't a fan of how the car show was run...

our point is, it's time to agree to disagree.

sound fair?
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Old 08-08-2013, 12:36 PM   #64
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Originally Posted by HuJass View Post
Interesting.
Instead of having a conversation about how to improve an event to be more inclusive of all Camaro owners, you tell me to just shut my mouth and go away.

Not sure if you are a mod or not, but if you are, way to run a forum.
To be fair, this wasn't a thread about the car show or how it was run. It was about the Camaro/Chevy GM team and Mod awards that are given out.

Take mine for example, I wasn't even in the show. In the parking lot. Waiting for autographs. She said she just loved my car and wanted me to have her award.


How it ended up talking about white glove indoor car shows is beyond me.
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Old 08-08-2013, 12:56 PM   #65
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It took the path it took due to HJ tossing in a jab at the dog's car as a sidebar to establishing his point. I'm not sure why he singled this car out if he wasn't there to appreciate it or hate on it in person because photos don't do any car justice, good or bad.

HJ - You stated the thread did a few good things and drove a legit discussion. That, it did. It could have driven the same discussion points without singling out a car you didn't personally care for.

That aside, the discusion was good, the Fest was great, and I agree the time has come to let the poor L-dog lie. Beautiful car, whether it suits everyone's taste or not.

Thanks to the judges for their efforts and please do not turn this into a white glove, chalk mark event.
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Old 08-08-2013, 02:30 PM   #66
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Interesting.
Instead of having a conversation about how to improve an event to be more inclusive of all Camaro owners, you tell me to just shut my mouth and go away.

Not sure if you are a mod or not, but if you are, way to run a forum.
I really need to say a couple of things here......

First- he (MLEE) is a moderator. He's a great guy.

This is a HUGE site - so the Moderators spend an inordinate amount of time on this site keeping it friendly and keeping peace. Some may not agree, but simply look at the numbers of members and the numbers of posts every day. They're not perfect - but this is a great site to come to for any number of reasons. I truly believe that the difference between this site and many others is that people can't swear and carry on and have contests to see who can misbehave the worst...when they do, they get a warning and then they get a ban...... I think there are many people (like myself) that are tired of the foolishness on some sites. (and no, I'm not talking about the site that I know you from....)

Second - this isn't a concours show. It's not the Camaro Nationals. It's Camaro5Fest. That means that most of the cars at the event will be 5th gen Camaros. Some will come to drag race - some will come to autocross (CamaroCross!) some will come to park their Camaro and just look around - and others will come and detail their cars 'til the cows come home.

The Central Indiana Camaro Club offered (for the second year in a row) to hold a show and judge cars. One of their members just explained how he(they) chose their awards. There weren't that many of them and frankly I think that's appropriate.

On top of that - for the fourth year in a row - GM has provided Awards to select GM people - the moderators - the dealers present - and Ralph White (who is one of our licensees and who makes up the shirts and hats that GM/Moderators/Disciples wear) - and yes, Ralph comes to the show and picks his 'pick'

As I stated before - the whole idea behind the awards we provide are to "Pick the Camaro I'd best like to take home with me!" -- that's the rule. Subjective as all get-out.

I think the fact that you have asked so many questions - and in my opinion have come across a bit harshly - added with the fact that you weren't even there - and you drive a Challenger - makes people sit up and take notice (and not in a good way...)

I've attended more shows in the past 36 years than anyone that I know of.....and I get people complaining all the time. (one time a woman in California wrote to the Chairman of GM at the time - and complained that I was favoring someone else's car...........(...really???????)

I have a standard response to those who complain: How 'bout showing up next year and being a judge!

Now - I suspect that your posts may be driven by passion - and if that's the case - fine - but I think you may want to tone it down just a little bit............

"The name 'Camaro' means 'friend - pal - or comrade' ....."
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Old 08-08-2013, 02:39 PM   #67
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Old 08-08-2013, 03:16 PM   #68
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Old 08-08-2013, 03:31 PM   #69
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fbodfather and mods,
thank you for getting this to end. I simply put up the post to see who won what, nothing more. I did not even mention that our car took home the Team Camaro award from John Cox, didn't feel a reason to so I left that out. Now that there is a sticky post for these awards I'll add it there.
Sorry that this got out of hand, but people will be people and not much we can do about that.
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Old 08-08-2013, 04:42 PM   #70
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fbodfather and mods,
thank you for getting this to end. I simply put up the post to see who won what, nothing more. I did not even mention that our car took home the Team Camaro award from John Cox, didn't feel a reason to so I left that out. Now that there is a sticky post for these awards I'll add it there.
Sorry that this got out of hand, but people will be people and not much we can do about that.
No worries. We honestly don't mind people voicing their concerns or complaints. Sometimes we have a reason why things are the way they are and sometimes we don't. Whenever possible we are willing to change something especially if it will make the show better for everyone.

Thanks for the kind words everyone.
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Old 08-09-2013, 12:17 PM   #71
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Lots of good input here and if the C5 team will let us we'll be happy to take a more active role in the planning and layout of the show next year versus just judging a few categories.

On the subject of stock vs. modified - this is a conversation that comes up in many many many shows. While I can see the point where do you draw the line? There are already A LOT of awards handed out... so do you start to add sub categories to the point that everyone is happy?

At a certain point you might as well just hand out 'participant' trophies to everyone who shows up so theres no hurt feelings and everyones a winner!

Next year in order to make a new class I'd suggest going to a format more along the lines of a format I've used in the past:

Each car registers into a class based on criteria laid out before hand. What defines these classes is typically a percentage of the exterior panels modified and limits cars from jumping up a class without meeting the requirements. Its a top down qualification process. Want to be in SHOW, but you don't have a full paintjob and wheels, then you fall to the street class.
  • Stock (mostly original)
  • Street (semi-modified)
  • Show (heavily modified)

Then awards are given out for the best in each of those classes and certain classes are open to compete in larger pools for an award:
  • Best Paint (all classes included)
  • Cleanest Car (all classes included)
  • Best Engine (street and show included)
  • Best Interior (street and show included)

Outside of those classes either pick winners for each generation, or just include a "Gen 1 - 4" class that picks the best overall older gen camaro to keep things simple. There certainly wasn't much competition in the generation 1 thru 4 categories. Some classes had only a couple of cars.

The judging is then conducted on a simplified point scale.
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