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Old 08-10-2013, 04:04 PM   #18
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Wow Jason, sorry to hear but you know the reason... So I'll not state the obvious... I'm thrilled with my ERL, they are running a bit behind now though. Their main engine assembler passed earlier this year... Having said that, they are extremely good blocks... Look at their Turbo Extreme build... If I blow mine up again that's what I'll go with...

http://www.erlperformance.com/gm-ls-...-block-sleeved


It lists 1500 hp but my four bolt is way beyond that at the flywheel with no issue with the motor. We are not pushing any water... LSA heads and oversized head studs... There is a sand dragster pushing 2200 hp with turbos on my exact same rotating assembly, with four bolt heads...

Give em a call and see what they can do for you... I'll get you a contact name if you need it...
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Old 08-10-2013, 04:29 PM   #19
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Hey brother been a while sorry for your loss but I have to amit I am excited to see what you do next!
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Old 08-10-2013, 05:00 PM   #20
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Definitely wasn't the block as it was timing that caused the heads to lift. It was hot out and intake temps went up and computer couldn't pull timing fast enough. Since I now have the option I'm going with an RHS or an ERL block this time. Can u price me a 436 block?
How is a new block of any brand going to solve the computer timing adjustment problem that you mention?

Shouldn't a better grade of fuel be in question instead?

If you go RHS or ERL LS9/A block there is the piston squirter option that will reduce the heat of the piston. Seems to help the ricers while they run timing and high boost numbers that your F2 is capable of producing.

Other than increasing the deck thickness of the heads or block, the other item is the head bolts and making sure that the strongest grade is used.

None of above which will change how the computer responds.
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Old 08-10-2013, 06:26 PM   #21
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How is a new block of any brand going to solve the computer timing adjustment problem that you mention?

Shouldn't a better grade of fuel be in question instead?

If you go RHS or ERL LS9/A block there is the piston squirter option that will reduce the heat of the piston. Seems to help the ricers while they run timing and high boost numbers that your F2 is capable of producing.

Other than increasing the deck thickness of the heads or block, the other item is the head bolts and making sure that the strongest grade is used.

None of above which will change how the computer responds.
Thanks for your insight but I already stated I knew the cause. Surely your not implying I actually thought a new block would fix this issue? I'm only talking about the new block because it will be much lighter. The timing wasn't that far off as yes it allowed the heads to lift but it didn't eat plugs and throw shit everywhere. Intake temps went up and it didnt pull enough timing fast enough. Again, this is not a street car that is tuned to run pump gas and be a daily driver. It's a full out race motor that only runs c16 race fuel so fuel is not an issue. We r still learning the Holley dominator software. If u ever go to the race track people blow shit up everyday. That's just part of this sport when your pushing the limits. Ill get my new motor installed and be safe on timing and back in the power from there. Most people would freak out over this but I fully expect to be breaking stuff trying to push the envelope.
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Old 08-10-2013, 06:33 PM   #22
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How much boost were you running when you lifted the heads?
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Old 08-10-2013, 06:38 PM   #23
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Originally Posted by jrpxxii View Post
Thanks for your insight but I already stated I knew the cause. Surely your not implying I actually thought a new block would fix this issue? I'm only talking about the new block because it will be much lighter. The timing wasn't that far off as yes it allowed the heads to lift but it didn't eat plugs and throw shit everywhere. Intake temps went up and it didnt pull enough timing fast enough. Again, this is not a street car that is tuned to run pump gas and be a daily driver. It's a full out race motor that only runs c16 race fuel so fuel is not an issue. We r still learning the Holley dominator software. If u ever go to the race track people blow shit up everyday. That's just part of this sport when your pushing the limits. Ill get my new motor installed and be safe on timing and back in the power from there. Most people would freak out over this but I fully expect to be breaking stuff trying to push the envelope.
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Old 08-10-2013, 06:44 PM   #24
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Old 08-10-2013, 06:52 PM   #25
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Jason, have you looked at the LSnext block from Dart?

http://www.dartheads.com/products/en...ext-block.html

http://www.yellowbullet.com/forum/sh...d.php?t=518959

I realize this may not be exactly what you want and I am not sure about oil pan fitment but might be worth looking into.
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Old 08-10-2013, 06:57 PM   #26
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Sorry to hear about your troubles. I would be going with an RHS block if I were in your shoes.
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Old 08-10-2013, 07:40 PM   #27
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jrpxxii View Post
Thanks for your insight but I already stated I knew the cause. Surely your not implying I actually thought a new block would fix this issue? I'm only talking about the new block because it will be much lighter. The timing wasn't that far off as yes it allowed the heads to lift but it didn't eat plugs and throw shit everywhere. Intake temps went up and it didnt pull enough timing fast enough. Again, this is not a street car that is tuned to run pump gas and be a daily driver. It's a full out race motor that only runs c16 race fuel so fuel is not an issue. We r still learning the Holley dominator software. If u ever go to the race track people blow shit up everyday. That's just part of this sport when your pushing the limits. Ill get my new motor installed and be safe on timing and back in the power from there. Most people would freak out over this but I fully expect to be breaking stuff trying to push the envelope.
So this sounds more like the tune/r was a contributor.

Yes, I have seen lots of other people breaking on the track since the 1980s. I have even personally made my own scrap.

As for the RHS, you probably already know of the proprietary ancillary components since it sounds like you are already looking into it. I am enjoying mine.

good luck with what ever you decide. hope everything works out with your track car.
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Old 08-10-2013, 09:11 PM   #28
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The RHS block does come with the cam plate/rear cover plate.. The one aspect is the front timing cover. You can weld up the stock cover and move the cam sensor up, which we do most of the time.. LPE offers a cover for $159, and then $250 through Comp for the 2 piece cover kit. C5R timing chain with 2 extra links not a problem.. Past that you need a link bar lifter set (I like the Comp Short Travels for Hydraulic or the Comp race solids), and plugs for the oil squirters if you are not using them.
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Old 08-10-2013, 10:53 PM   #29
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Sorry to read about this setback.

Respectfully if the car got hurt on the dyno you might want to get someone like Patrick Barnhill involved in your tune.

And again respectfully, we are running the same LSX block, same pistons, in my friend's 315 Drag Radial car, for now either 3 or 4 years. The engine was built by LME and they are the best in the business. But we are careful with the tune, never take chances... Car goes 7.25@202. For me this goes back to tuning. We've been super careful as of late as we are just about about of fuel with this current setup FWIW.

There's a lot that goes into tuning tables, like what happens with timing advance and AF as your inlet air temps go up.

RHS blocks look interesting though some folks would like the water passages in the deck to be smaller.

Best of luck, hope to see your car crack off some killer runs this year.
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Old 08-10-2013, 11:13 PM   #30
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Sorry to read about this setback.

Respectfully if the car got hurt on the dyno you might want to get someone like Patrick Barnhill involved in your tune.

And again respectfully, we are running the same LSX block, same pistons, in my friend's 315 Drag Radial car, for now either 3 or 4 years. The engine was built by LME and they are the best in the business. But we are careful with the tune, never take chances... Car goes 7.25@202. For me this goes back to tuning. We've been super careful as of late as we are just about about of fuel with this current setup FWIW.

There's a lot that goes into tuning tables, like what happens with timing advance and AF as your inlet air temps go up.

RHS blocks look interesting though some folks would like the water passages in the deck to be smaller.

Best of luck, hope to see your car crack off some killer runs this year.
John the car was perfect on the dyno all the way thru an entire run. The problem was the heat that day at the track was hotter than when it was tuned and it wasn't until the 1000' mark that temps got high and it didn't pull enough timing fast enough. It was definitely a tune issue but we thought it was safe enough as we were only running 19 degrees but apparently it wasn't safe enough.
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Old 08-10-2013, 11:24 PM   #31
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Sorry to read about this setback.

Respectfully if the car got hurt on the dyno you might want to get someone like Patrick Barnhill involved in your tune.
.
I would love to have Patrick tune my car but again another issue is I'm running the Holley dominator efi and there just aren't that many people out there that know this software yet. Rick Anderson which is the lead developer on this software came up to Cincy and looked at the tune in my car and he said it was dead nuts as if you have seen anything on this stuff it has auto correct feature but all thru the tune it was reading zero percent correct as it was perfect. I think the changing weather conditions is where it screwed me as I should have been more aware of how much this will affect my tune.
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Old 08-11-2013, 12:14 AM   #32
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Was this on the dyno? What timing advance and AF? Are you pulleyed for 30 psi like I saw posted or what does it really do?
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Old 08-11-2013, 01:33 AM   #33
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This happened on the track. The timing was 19 and af perfect throughout numerous pulls on dyno. Pulley setup is for 30 and computer showed 29.85 so its accurate.
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Old 08-11-2013, 09:28 AM   #34
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This happened on the track. The timing was 19 and af perfect throughout numerous pulls on dyno. Pulley setup is for 30 and computer showed 29.85 so its accurate.


good rule of thumb from now on would be to knock the tune back a little at the track ,make a few passes then start adjusting for conditions , I usually do that then send the logs to my tuner between runs ,and we adjust for that day @ the power level you and some of us are @, its really the only way to do it there is no one tune fits all for us .but get that beast back together its one of my favorites
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