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Old 08-10-2013, 05:57 PM   #26
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Sorry to hear about your troubles. I would be going with an RHS block if I were in your shoes.
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Old 08-10-2013, 06:40 PM   #27
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Thanks for your insight but I already stated I knew the cause. Surely your not implying I actually thought a new block would fix this issue? I'm only talking about the new block because it will be much lighter. The timing wasn't that far off as yes it allowed the heads to lift but it didn't eat plugs and throw shit everywhere. Intake temps went up and it didnt pull enough timing fast enough. Again, this is not a street car that is tuned to run pump gas and be a daily driver. It's a full out race motor that only runs c16 race fuel so fuel is not an issue. We r still learning the Holley dominator software. If u ever go to the race track people blow shit up everyday. That's just part of this sport when your pushing the limits. Ill get my new motor installed and be safe on timing and back in the power from there. Most people would freak out over this but I fully expect to be breaking stuff trying to push the envelope.
So this sounds more like the tune/r was a contributor.

Yes, I have seen lots of other people breaking on the track since the 1980s. I have even personally made my own scrap.

As for the RHS, you probably already know of the proprietary ancillary components since it sounds like you are already looking into it. I am enjoying mine.

good luck with what ever you decide. hope everything works out with your track car.
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Old 08-10-2013, 08:11 PM   #28
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The RHS block does come with the cam plate/rear cover plate.. The one aspect is the front timing cover. You can weld up the stock cover and move the cam sensor up, which we do most of the time.. LPE offers a cover for $159, and then $250 through Comp for the 2 piece cover kit. C5R timing chain with 2 extra links not a problem.. Past that you need a link bar lifter set (I like the Comp Short Travels for Hydraulic or the Comp race solids), and plugs for the oil squirters if you are not using them.
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Old 08-10-2013, 09:53 PM   #29
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Sorry to read about this setback.

Respectfully if the car got hurt on the dyno you might want to get someone like Patrick Barnhill involved in your tune.

And again respectfully, we are running the same LSX block, same pistons, in my friend's 315 Drag Radial car, for now either 3 or 4 years. The engine was built by LME and they are the best in the business. But we are careful with the tune, never take chances... Car goes 7.25@202. For me this goes back to tuning. We've been super careful as of late as we are just about about of fuel with this current setup FWIW.

There's a lot that goes into tuning tables, like what happens with timing advance and AF as your inlet air temps go up.

RHS blocks look interesting though some folks would like the water passages in the deck to be smaller.

Best of luck, hope to see your car crack off some killer runs this year.
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Old 08-10-2013, 10:13 PM   #30
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Sorry to read about this setback.

Respectfully if the car got hurt on the dyno you might want to get someone like Patrick Barnhill involved in your tune.

And again respectfully, we are running the same LSX block, same pistons, in my friend's 315 Drag Radial car, for now either 3 or 4 years. The engine was built by LME and they are the best in the business. But we are careful with the tune, never take chances... Car goes 7.25@202. For me this goes back to tuning. We've been super careful as of late as we are just about about of fuel with this current setup FWIW.

There's a lot that goes into tuning tables, like what happens with timing advance and AF as your inlet air temps go up.

RHS blocks look interesting though some folks would like the water passages in the deck to be smaller.

Best of luck, hope to see your car crack off some killer runs this year.
John the car was perfect on the dyno all the way thru an entire run. The problem was the heat that day at the track was hotter than when it was tuned and it wasn't until the 1000' mark that temps got high and it didn't pull enough timing fast enough. It was definitely a tune issue but we thought it was safe enough as we were only running 19 degrees but apparently it wasn't safe enough.
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Old 08-10-2013, 10:24 PM   #31
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Sorry to read about this setback.

Respectfully if the car got hurt on the dyno you might want to get someone like Patrick Barnhill involved in your tune.
.
I would love to have Patrick tune my car but again another issue is I'm running the Holley dominator efi and there just aren't that many people out there that know this software yet. Rick Anderson which is the lead developer on this software came up to Cincy and looked at the tune in my car and he said it was dead nuts as if you have seen anything on this stuff it has auto correct feature but all thru the tune it was reading zero percent correct as it was perfect. I think the changing weather conditions is where it screwed me as I should have been more aware of how much this will affect my tune.
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Old 08-10-2013, 11:14 PM   #32
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Was this on the dyno? What timing advance and AF? Are you pulleyed for 30 psi like I saw posted or what does it really do?
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Old 08-11-2013, 12:33 AM   #33
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This happened on the track. The timing was 19 and af perfect throughout numerous pulls on dyno. Pulley setup is for 30 and computer showed 29.85 so its accurate.
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Old 08-11-2013, 08:28 AM   #34
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This happened on the track. The timing was 19 and af perfect throughout numerous pulls on dyno. Pulley setup is for 30 and computer showed 29.85 so its accurate.


good rule of thumb from now on would be to knock the tune back a little at the track ,make a few passes then start adjusting for conditions , I usually do that then send the logs to my tuner between runs ,and we adjust for that day @ the power level you and some of us are @, its really the only way to do it there is no one tune fits all for us .but get that beast back together its one of my favorites
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Old 08-11-2013, 10:34 AM   #35
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good rule of thumb from now on would be to knock the tune back a little at the track ,make a few passes then start adjusting for conditions , I usually do that then send the logs to my tuner between runs ,and we adjust for that day @ the power level you and some of us are @, its really the only way to do it there is no one tune fits all for us .but get that beast back together its one of my favorites
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Old 08-11-2013, 08:56 PM   #36
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No problem but just want everyone to know I fully support Cincy Speed. As Jamie said, most people have no idea what all has been done to the car as it was basically stripped down to the bare body and rebuilt part by part. This was not a simple thrown together build. People have no idea what all is involved in builds like these to actually make them work. Anyone can make over 1000hp but its extremely difficult to make it all work at the track. Look at Darth Emma's car for another example, ran 8.47 and next time out she broke axles and transmission. I'm putting 30 lbs of boost through my motor too which is going to cause problems eventually no matter what and its just being prepared this will happen. Once I get my motor back in car it's ready to come off the trailer and start ripping it.
Hey Jason! Sorry to hear about your dilemmas... I admire you for hanging in there and continue to spend and chase your dream. As you know, it's not just about increasing rwhp. That in itself produces bigger headaches. And then, we have to find ways of applying it all to the ground.

Continued good luck and patience!
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Old 08-11-2013, 09:06 PM   #37
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Have you thought about a proline engine?

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Old 08-11-2013, 10:13 PM   #38
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Have you thought about a proline engine?
Yes but at this point all I need is a block pistons and rods. I can re-use everything else
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Old 08-11-2013, 10:43 PM   #39
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Sorry Jason. Hope you get that bad boy up & running really soon! I was hoping to see you run at the LSX fest in Bowling Green.
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Old 08-11-2013, 10:48 PM   #40
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Sorry Jason. Hope you get that bad boy up & running really soon! I was hoping to see you run at the LSX fest in Bowling Green.
That was the goal but not sure how quick I get motor back together. I will know more tomorrow when I know exactly what I will need and availability to make this happen. I'm still trying to make Holley fest.
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Old 08-12-2013, 02:27 AM   #41
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I fully understand that this was not a block issue as you have explained very well.

My question is if there is actually a block out there that would have handled this BETTER then the LSX? From my understanding, the LSX, from a shear strength stand point is about the top of the pile.

Curious what the damage would have been with one of the top end aluminum blocks if the same thing occurred?

I an NO WHERE REMOTELY near anything you guys are at power wise, never will be but I understand your attitude, when you push the limits things break and when you push as hard as you guys are pushing, its not uncommon at all. Just part of the price to play the game, unfortunately a spendy part of the game.

Again, just curious if you think the LXS block handled the head lift as well as any other block would have. ITs amazing to think about an LSX block and heads lifting, WOW!!!
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Old 08-12-2013, 06:33 AM   #42
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Who's doing your rebuild, Cincy?
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Old 08-12-2013, 07:07 AM   #43
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I fully understand that this was not a block issue as you have explained very well.

My question is if there is actually a block out there that would have handled this BETTER then the LSX? From my understanding, the LSX, from a shear strength stand point is about the top of the pile.

Curious what the damage would have been with one of the top end aluminum blocks if the same thing occurred?

I an NO WHERE REMOTELY near anything you guys are at power wise, never will be but I understand your attitude, when you push the limits things break and when you push as hard as you guys are pushing, its not uncommon at all. Just part of the price to play the game, unfortunately a spendy part of the game.

Again, just curious if you think the LXS block handled the head lift as well as any other block would have. ITs amazing to think about an LSX block and heads lifting, WOW!!!
I don't think it would have mattered what kind of block it was. When the heads lifted it filled with water and hydro locked. Anytime this happens stuff is going to break.
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Old 08-12-2013, 07:08 AM   #44
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Who's doing your rebuild, Cincy?
No Cincy has never had anything to do with the motor work as Bischoff Racing Engines is who I use
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Old 08-12-2013, 07:19 AM   #45
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No Cincy has never had anything to do with the motor work as Bischoff Racing Engines is who I use
Gotcha, was wondering if they were doing the install.
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Old 08-12-2013, 09:17 AM   #46
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I don't think it would have mattered what kind of block it was. When the heads lifted it filled with water and hydro locked. Anytime this happens stuff is going to break.
YEP!!! Good luck with the rebuild and hope your back at it soon.
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Old 08-12-2013, 06:47 PM   #47
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Hey Jrp what gaskets are you running?
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Old 08-12-2013, 07:06 PM   #48
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Damn. Hope you get that beast up and running soon.
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Old 08-12-2013, 08:55 PM   #49
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Jason, I spoke with/met a friend of yours today... Dave... We were discussing intakes... I like what I saw... Big time... Don't know with these bigger turbos if ill need that much but wow... Nice toys...
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Old 08-12-2013, 09:00 PM   #50
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I don't think it would have mattered what kind of block it was. When the heads lifted it filled with water and hydro locked. Anytime this happens stuff is going to break.
This... I lifted heads on my ERL with Arp studs... Mine was more a case of be head flexing and allowing water to push out... Along with the flame front which washed the block and head...

We now have LSA heads rather than the LS3 heads..,LSA heads are much harder aluminum, just ask the guy that hand ported them for me... Oh the whining... Lol,,, we also drilled the holes and are now using oversized studs... 30 psi of boost and a nitrous shot on the dyno and haven't pushed a drop of water... The new studs and heads allow for somewhere on the order of 67,000 lbs more clamping force if I understood that correctly...
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