Camaro5 Chevy Camaro Forum / Camaro ZL1, SS and V6 Forums - Camaro5.com
 
BeckyD@RodgersChevrolet
Go Back   Camaro5 Chevy Camaro Forum / Camaro ZL1, SS and V6 Forums - Camaro5.com > General Camaro Forums > Camaro Z/28 Forum - Z/28 Specific Topics

Camaro Z/28 Forum - Z/28 Specific Topics Discussions related to the 5th gen Camaro Z/28 model

Reply
 
Thread Tools
Old 09-10-2013, 01:25 PM   #76
shaffe

 
Drives: 2012 Focus
Join Date: Jun 2012
Location: Burr Ridge
Posts: 1,310
Doc, just playing Devils advocate here. Will you be disappointed if its only in say the high 720 range or low 730 range? I just cant see how the Z28 is gonna be 22 seconds faster than the ZL1 or be in Z07 range but thats just me. I expect this car to be faster than a lot expect but sub 7:20 to me just seems other worldly fast lol
shaffe is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-10-2013, 01:30 PM   #77
grocerygetter
instigator
 
grocerygetter's Avatar
 
Drives: Black on black 2009 C6
Join Date: Jan 2010
Location: 72034
Posts: 3,951
give that Z28 a air intake and a cam, ditch the cats, and tune it...I'd bet it rolls hard.
__________________
-John S.

2014 GMC CC Z71, 2009 C6 vette (57x/53x at the wheel and less than 3300lbs)
2010 Camaro 2ss/rs---SOLD 4/15/14
-654whp with a few cosmetic things, Pfadt suspension, Vortech, CircleD, GPI ss3 vvt bump stick, gears, stuff in between,18" TSW N'rings for drag duty, 20" Forgestar F14s for street.

Thanks to:
Tony@ dv8motoring
rhino@ Gwatney Chevrolet/GPI Jacksonville AR
TCAudio in Benton AR
grocerygetter is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-10-2013, 02:10 PM   #78
Dyk-NO
Trust me I'm a Scientist.
 
Drives: 2010 Camaro LS M6
Join Date: Jun 2010
Location: Houston, TX
Posts: 939
what is the wheel and tire specs for the Z28 again? I believe theyre 19"s
__________________
"From ZERO to a Tire-Burning HERO!"


Dyk-NO is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-10-2013, 02:22 PM   #79
Doc
Dances With Mustangs
 
Doc's Avatar
 
Drives: 2010 1SS/RS MT
Join Date: May 2009
Location: California
Posts: 3,583
Quote:
Originally Posted by shaffe View Post
Doc, just playing Devils advocate here. Will you be disappointed if its only in say the high 720 range or low 730 range? I just cant see how the Z28 is gonna be 22 seconds faster than the ZL1 or be in Z07 range but thats just me. I expect this car to be faster than a lot expect but sub 7:20 to me just seems other worldly fast lol
I won't be disappointed at all. I'm actually expecting it to normally be in the 7:20's but if they really snap off a fast lap (which is quite possible) I'm thinking it could just break into the 7:19's. It's all about cornering time and response. Over a course that's as long as the Ring, there's plenty of opportunity for a fast cornering monster to make up time. The response time for the Z/28 of going into, through and out of a corner is going to be quite a bit better than the ZL1, not only due to it's weight but also the increased tire patch, tire type and grip. The n/a engine is also better for using it's power band on a road course. I firmly believe this thing is going to surprise people.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Dyk-NO View Post
what is the wheel and tire specs for the Z28 again? I believe theyre 19"s
19x11 with 60 wear rating Trofeos. Massive sticky tires with a suspension custom tuned specifically for them.
__________________

Blue Angel is here!!
1SS/RS LS3 M6 IBM
Doc is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-10-2013, 02:27 PM   #80
Dyk-NO
Trust me I'm a Scientist.
 
Drives: 2010 Camaro LS M6
Join Date: Jun 2010
Location: Houston, TX
Posts: 939
19x11 squares? that explains the fender flares. Just love that stance
__________________
"From ZERO to a Tire-Burning HERO!"


Dyk-NO is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-10-2013, 02:40 PM   #81
Dyk-NO
Trust me I'm a Scientist.
 
Drives: 2010 Camaro LS M6
Join Date: Jun 2010
Location: Houston, TX
Posts: 939
Just got the info on the wheels and tires:

19x11 fronts and 19x11.5 rears
running the first ever Pirelli Trofeos R with 305/30/19 specs
__________________
"From ZERO to a Tire-Burning HERO!"


Dyk-NO is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-10-2013, 04:34 PM   #82
shaffe

 
Drives: 2012 Focus
Join Date: Jun 2012
Location: Burr Ridge
Posts: 1,310
Quote:
Originally Posted by Doc View Post
I won't be disappointed at all. I'm actually expecting it to normally be in the 7:20's but if they really snap off a fast lap (which is quite possible) I'm thinking it could just break into the 7:19's. It's all about cornering time and response. Over a course that's as long as the Ring, there's plenty of opportunity for a fast cornering monster to make up time. The response time for the Z/28 of going into, through and out of a corner is going to be quite a bit better than the ZL1, not only due to it's weight but also the increased tire patch, tire type and grip. The n/a engine is also better for using it's power band on a road course. I firmly believe this thing is going to surprise people.



19x11 with 60 wear rating Trofeos. Massive sticky tires with a suspension custom tuned specifically for them.
See I don't doubt any of the reasons you listed for while it will be faster than the ZL1, but putting in Z07 range when the Z07 weighs at least 500 pounds less? That's what I can't wrap my head around haha
shaffe is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-10-2013, 05:12 PM   #83
PYROLYSIS
Remember the Charleston 9
 
PYROLYSIS's Avatar
 
Drives: 2004 KME PREDATOR, 2014 2SS/RS/1LE
Join Date: Nov 2008
Location: Summerv1LE SC
Posts: 4,686
Quote:
Originally Posted by grocerygetter View Post
give that Z28 a air intake and a cam, ditch the cats, and tune it...I'd bet it rolls hard.
It comes with an air intake.
__________________
BRING BACK THE B4C POLICE CAMARO!
2002 V-6 5 speed rally red (current camaro) Also driven:1992 Z-28 305 auto Red w/ black stripes (anniversary), 2001 V-6 auto light pewter metallic,1991 RS V-6 auto Black
PYROLYSIS is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 09-10-2013, 09:07 PM   #84
2cnd chance
It Will Be Mine
 
2cnd chance's Avatar
 
Drives: A Z06 or a 2015 1LE?
Join Date: Jun 2009
Location: The Road
Posts: 6,294
The new Porsche HyperCar just ran a 6:57 new record. Amazing!

http://www.carmagazine.co.uk/News/Se...in-under-7min/
__________________
2cnd chance is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-10-2013, 09:12 PM   #85
Blueclyde

 
Blueclyde's Avatar
 
Drives: 2014 ZL1
Join Date: Jun 2009
Location: Northeast Metro Detroit
Posts: 1,381
I'd love to see a ZL1 hot lap the ring with the Z28 wheel tire combo. I think for a few laps that will be the biggest difference between the models.
__________________
2014 ZL1, AGM, Ricaros, M6, ECF
Blueclyde is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-10-2013, 09:26 PM   #86
OldScoolCamaro


 
Drives: Camaro's, always have, always will.
Join Date: Oct 2010
Location: Home of the brave
Posts: 4,858
...give us the in car cam footage instead of the cam placed on the rail along side the green hell catching some glimpses of.....
__________________
In Scott We Trust...all others must show proof.
OldScoolCamaro is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-10-2013, 09:37 PM   #87
backtotintops
 
backtotintops's Avatar
 
Drives: 14 Z/28 0#
Join Date: May 2013
Location: NY
Posts: 545
it is impressive
backtotintops is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-10-2013, 09:58 PM   #88
OldScoolCamaro


 
Drives: Camaro's, always have, always will.
Join Date: Oct 2010
Location: Home of the brave
Posts: 4,858
...the C7 footage was more prolific...and it looked, performed, and sounded like everything it should be....
__________________
In Scott We Trust...all others must show proof.
OldScoolCamaro is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-12-2013, 12:31 PM   #89
radz28
Petro-sexual
 
radz28's Avatar
 
Drives: Ultra-Grin
Join Date: Oct 2006
Location: Crapramento, Crapifornia
Posts: 13,046
Quote:
Originally Posted by Blueclyde View Post
I'd love to see a ZL1 hot lap the ring with the Z28 wheel tire combo. I think for a few laps that will be the biggest difference between the models.
I don't know... While I'd agree the weight savings and extra grip would definitely improve ZL1's time, like it looks like you're alluding to, heat could be a problem with at least the SC and shocks. They'd have to recalibrate for those cool new shocks, too. Still, they are saying Z/28 is 300-pounds lighter; that's a lot.

I hope we see some times soon!
__________________
"...What IS true: We anticipated that this would happen - we are never finished - and yes, Ford DOES deserve to win now and then. To think that GM can come out with a car to make ford throw in the towel is simply foolhardy..." - fbodfather
radz28 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-12-2013, 12:46 PM   #90
Bhobbs


 
Bhobbs's Avatar
 
Drives: 2015 SS 1LE Red Hot, 1970 Chevelle
Join Date: Apr 2012
Location: Chino, CA
Posts: 2,955
Quote:
Originally Posted by radz28 View Post
I don't know... While I'd agree the weight savings and extra grip would definitely improve ZL1's time, like it looks like you're alluding to, heat could be a problem with at least the SC and shocks. They'd have to recalibrate for those cool new shocks, too. Still, they are saying Z/28 is 300-pounds lighter; that's a lot.

I hope we see some times soon!
I would think the times would be released soon. It seems like now would be a good time to get the best run. It won't be too hot or too cold and they have been there for a while.
Bhobbs is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 09-12-2013, 08:10 PM   #91
Blueclyde

 
Blueclyde's Avatar
 
Drives: 2014 ZL1
Join Date: Jun 2009
Location: Northeast Metro Detroit
Posts: 1,381
Quote:
Originally Posted by radz28 View Post
I don't know... While I'd agree the weight savings and extra grip would definitely improve ZL1's time, like it looks like you're alluding to, heat could be a problem with at least the SC and shocks. They'd have to recalibrate for those cool new shocks, too. Still, they are saying Z/28 is 300-pounds lighter; that's a lot.

I hope we see some times soon!
No doubt. I'm not suggesting anything other than grip is a major part of the difference between these cars for hero lap times. No doubt the Z/28 will be better suited for track days.
__________________
2014 ZL1, AGM, Ricaros, M6, ECF
Blueclyde is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-12-2013, 08:36 PM   #92
90503


 
Drives: 2011 2SS/RS LS3
Join Date: Nov 2011
Location: Torrance
Posts: 10,386
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bhobbs View Post
I would think the times would be released soon. It seems like now would be a good time to get the best run. It won't be too hot or too cold and they have been there for a while.
...Sure hope this is the case...We could have watched the paint dry on a few Z/28s by now...lol....
90503 is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 09-12-2013, 08:40 PM   #93
OldScoolCamaro


 
Drives: Camaro's, always have, always will.
Join Date: Oct 2010
Location: Home of the brave
Posts: 4,858
...it sure is taking a bit too long for my liking for something, .....anything...ok, how about watching grass grow instead of paint drying?
__________________
In Scott We Trust...all others must show proof.
OldScoolCamaro is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-12-2013, 08:44 PM   #94
90503


 
Drives: 2011 2SS/RS LS3
Join Date: Nov 2011
Location: Torrance
Posts: 10,386
Quote:
Originally Posted by OldScoolCamaro View Post
...it sure is taking a bit too long for my liking for something, .....anything...ok, how about watching grass grow instead of paint drying?
I think the grass got taller around the Nurbergring track....lol....

....And what's up with all the "graffiti" or whatever... all that writing on the track...Could be coded messages....lol
90503 is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 09-12-2013, 08:47 PM   #95
Bhobbs


 
Bhobbs's Avatar
 
Drives: 2015 SS 1LE Red Hot, 1970 Chevelle
Join Date: Apr 2012
Location: Chino, CA
Posts: 2,955
Quote:
Originally Posted by 90503 View Post
...Sure hope this is the case...We could have watched the paint dry on a few Z/28s by now...lol....
Me too. I want to see offical numbers on weight, horsepower, lap times, price and stuff like that. That stuff has got to come out soon, right?
Bhobbs is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 09-12-2013, 08:51 PM   #96
90503


 
Drives: 2011 2SS/RS LS3
Join Date: Nov 2011
Location: Torrance
Posts: 10,386
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bhobbs View Post
Me too. I want to see offical numbers on weight, horsepower, lap times, price and stuff like that. That stuff has got to come out soon, right?
...Only thing I can figure is that it is an odd-ball release/production time for a '14 model...who knows...Maybe at some big auto-show or whatever in the near future they might come up with "surprise" info....
90503 is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 09-12-2013, 08:54 PM   #97
OldScoolCamaro


 
Drives: Camaro's, always have, always will.
Join Date: Oct 2010
Location: Home of the brave
Posts: 4,858
Quote:
Originally Posted by 90503 View Post
I think the grass got taller around the Nurbergring track....lol....

....And what's up with all the "graffiti" or whatever... all that writing on the track...Could be coded messages....lol
...you answered your own question...
__________________
In Scott We Trust...all others must show proof.
OldScoolCamaro is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-13-2013, 01:41 AM   #98
brt3
Runs with scissors...
 
brt3's Avatar
 
Drives: '14 Z/28s SIM/SW
Join Date: Jan 2013
Location: Austin, TX
Posts: 1,242
Quote:
Originally Posted by Doc View Post
They haven't stated what the actual power is; just "more than 500" which could be anywhere from 505 to 525 or more. Plus the Z/28 is AT LEAST 300 lbs lighter than the ZL1. I'm guessing they've gotten it below 3,700 lbs. so the power to weight ratio is going to be good. That plus the unsprung rotating weight on the 4 corners of the Z/28 is much less than the ZL1 so it's also going to have the advantage of quicker, smoother acceleration through and out of corners, and better braking so it can go deeper into a corner before having to brake.

It was already 3 seconds faster than the ZL1 at Milford and that was early-on before they'd done all the tweaking the've been doing the past 9 months. It's not going to be just 5 seconds faster on the Ring, it's going to be a LOT faster. That latest video shows it on power and digging hard through those corners; the same corners the Stingray is coasting through trying to hang on while the tires are screaming in protest. The Z/28 is powering through those corners...that thing is FAST.

With the already-admitted 1.05 g's in the corners and 1.5 g's braking, if they can pull off a no-screw-ups hot lap, I bet it cracks the 7:20 mark. I'm guessing 7:19-something. You heard Mark Reuss; they want to build something that the competition can't even touch, so that means not just a little faster, that means track killer faster.

My guess is they're not releasing lap times yet because either Stielow isn't done tweaking, and/or they don't want to give the competition the target numbers they have to beat until the car is close to being released for sale.

They're not going to be able to make enough of these things.
Doc, I hear you. I was tempted to predict a faster time, but I'm not ready to go out on that limb until I have more numbers -- like horsepower and torque.

In 2011 a C6 ZR1 Corvette -- with DOT Competition Tires -- barely broke 7:20 with Jim Mero behind the wheel. That car should be 400 pounds lighter than the Z/28.

I hope you're right, but I'll be stunned if the Z/28 gets below 7:30. Look at the sub-7:36 club -- there are some very heavy hitters there:

7:19.63 Chevrolet Corvette C6 ZR1 (2012) Jim Mero 9 June 2011 General Motors conducted test,[13] base specification car with optional track DOT competition tires (Michelin Pilot Sport Cup Zero Pressure), video confirmed.

7:22.1 Dodge Viper ACR (2009) Tom Coronel, 18 August 2008, Chrysler and Motor Trend conducted test.

7:22.68 Chevrolet Corvette C6 Z06 (2012) Jim Mero, 23 June 2011. General Motors conducted test, base specification car with optional track DOT competition tires (Michelin Pilot Sport Cup Zero Pressure) and Z07 package

7:24 Porsche 911 GT2 RS, Horst von Saurma, Sport Auto (11/2010)

7:24.22 Nissan GT-R (2011), Toshio Suzuki, 1 October 2010, Nissan conducted test. Semi-wet conditions. Video confirmed. Best Motoring (12/2010).

7:24.3 Maserati MC12, Marc Basseng, August 2008, Evo Magazine conducted test

7:24.44, Pagani Zonda F Clubsport, Marc Basseng, August 2008, Evo Magazine conducted test

7:25.7 Ferrari Enzo, Marc Basseng, August 2008, Evo Magazine conducted test

7:26.4 Chevrolet Corvette C6 ZR1 (2009), Jim Mero, 27 June 2008. General Motors conducted test, base specification car with stock tires and non-stock safety equipment, video confirmed.

7:26.70 Nissan GT-R (2009), Toshio Suzuki, 23 April 2009, Nissan Motors conducted test with optional tires. Video confirmed. Best Motoring (08/2009).

7:27.82 Pagani Zonda F Clubsport, Marc Basseng, September 2007, Pagani conducted test, semi-wet conditions.

7:28.00 Porsche Carrera GT, Walter Röhrl, 2 July 2004, Porsche conducted test.

7:28.71 Porsche Carrera GT, Marc Basseng, August 2008, Evo Magazine conducted test.

7:29.03 Nissan GT-R (2009), Toshio Suzuki, 17 April 2008, Nissan Motors conducted test. The test used a stock GT-R with stock tires. Video confirmed.

7:32.0 Porsche 911 GT2 (2008), Walter Röhrl, 2007. Porsche conducted test, R compound tires used.

7:32.92 Ferrari 458 Italia, Sascha Bert, November 2010, Auto Bild Sportscars (11/2010)

7:33.00 Porsche 911 GT3 RS 997MkII, Horst von Saurma, Sport Auto (04/2010), PCCB

7:33.6 Koenigsegg CCX, Marc Basseng, August 2008, Evo Magazine conducted test

7:34 Koenigsegg CCR, Horst von Saurma, 17 October 2005, Sport Auto (03/2006)

7:34 Porsche 911 GT2, September 2008, Porsche conducted test, stock vehicle with stock tires

7:34 Nissan GT-R (2011), Horst von Saurma, October 2010, Sport Auto (11/2010),.[31]

7:35 Ruf Rt 12, Sport Auto (02/2008)[32]
__________________
brt3 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-13-2013, 09:01 AM   #99
backtotintops
 
backtotintops's Avatar
 
Drives: 14 Z/28 0#
Join Date: May 2013
Location: NY
Posts: 545
You forgot the viper at 7:12
backtotintops is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-14-2013, 12:03 AM   #100
Doc
Dances With Mustangs
 
Doc's Avatar
 
Drives: 2010 1SS/RS MT
Join Date: May 2009
Location: California
Posts: 3,583
Quote:
Originally Posted by brt3 View Post
Doc, I hear you. I was tempted to predict a faster time, but I'm not ready to go out on that limb until I have more numbers -- like horsepower and torque.

In 2011 a C6 ZR1 Corvette -- with DOT Competition Tires -- barely broke 7:20 with Jim Mero behind the wheel. That car should be 400 pounds lighter than the Z/28.

I hope you're right, but I'll be stunned if the Z/28 gets below 7:30. Look at the sub-7:36 club -- there are some very heavy hitters there:

7:19.63 Chevrolet Corvette C6 ZR1 (2012) Jim Mero 9 June 2011 General Motors conducted test,[13] base specification car with optional track DOT competition tires (Michelin Pilot Sport Cup Zero Pressure), video confirmed.

7:22.1 Dodge Viper ACR (2009) Tom Coronel, 18 August 2008, Chrysler and Motor Trend conducted test.

7:22.68 Chevrolet Corvette C6 Z06 (2012) Jim Mero, 23 June 2011. General Motors conducted test, base specification car with optional track DOT competition tires (Michelin Pilot Sport Cup Zero Pressure) and Z07 package

7:24 Porsche 911 GT2 RS, Horst von Saurma, Sport Auto (11/2010)

7:24.22 Nissan GT-R (2011), Toshio Suzuki, 1 October 2010, Nissan conducted test. Semi-wet conditions. Video confirmed. Best Motoring (12/2010).

7:24.3 Maserati MC12, Marc Basseng, August 2008, Evo Magazine conducted test

7:24.44, Pagani Zonda F Clubsport, Marc Basseng, August 2008, Evo Magazine conducted test

7:25.7 Ferrari Enzo, Marc Basseng, August 2008, Evo Magazine conducted test

7:26.4 Chevrolet Corvette C6 ZR1 (2009), Jim Mero, 27 June 2008. General Motors conducted test, base specification car with stock tires and non-stock safety equipment, video confirmed.

7:26.70 Nissan GT-R (2009), Toshio Suzuki, 23 April 2009, Nissan Motors conducted test with optional tires. Video confirmed. Best Motoring (08/2009).

7:27.82 Pagani Zonda F Clubsport, Marc Basseng, September 2007, Pagani conducted test, semi-wet conditions.

7:28.00 Porsche Carrera GT, Walter Röhrl, 2 July 2004, Porsche conducted test.

7:28.71 Porsche Carrera GT, Marc Basseng, August 2008, Evo Magazine conducted test.

7:29.03 Nissan GT-R (2009), Toshio Suzuki, 17 April 2008, Nissan Motors conducted test. The test used a stock GT-R with stock tires. Video confirmed.

7:32.0 Porsche 911 GT2 (2008), Walter Röhrl, 2007. Porsche conducted test, R compound tires used.

7:32.92 Ferrari 458 Italia, Sascha Bert, November 2010, Auto Bild Sportscars (11/2010)

7:33.00 Porsche 911 GT3 RS 997MkII, Horst von Saurma, Sport Auto (04/2010), PCCB

7:33.6 Koenigsegg CCX, Marc Basseng, August 2008, Evo Magazine conducted test

7:34 Koenigsegg CCR, Horst von Saurma, 17 October 2005, Sport Auto (03/2006)

7:34 Porsche 911 GT2, September 2008, Porsche conducted test, stock vehicle with stock tires

7:34 Nissan GT-R (2011), Horst von Saurma, October 2010, Sport Auto (11/2010),.[31]

7:35 Ruf Rt 12, Sport Auto (02/2008)[32]
An impressive club to belong in, no question. For this particular car though, it's more than horsepower, torque and vehicle weight. Enough can't be said for what a suspension is able to do with regards to tracking road changes and keeping the tires solidly planted. All the power in the world won't help you if the suspension can't control the wheels. The ZL1 proved how important suspension really is by allowing that car even with its excessive weight, to turn in an amazingly quick time around the Ring.

The Z/28 is at least 300 lbs lighter than the ZL1, it has a new type of shock absorber technology compared to any previous Camaro or Corvette, and it has 11" wide wheels on all corners with a 60 treadwear tire straight from the Pirelli Formula 1 labs. There's custom technology debuting here that hasn't been done on any GM production car yet. Mark Stielow is the kind of guy who can jump into a production car and set a new track record. He's developing this car. All of that is a pretty potent combination.

Even if the power, torque and vehicle weight is comparable to other cars in the category, he's tuning up a superb suspension setup customizing it for these 11" wide sticky tires. This isn't the same as you buying an SS and slapping wide tires on it. This is a GM engineer with the full weight of GM's resources behind him who can get approval for things like thinner custom rear windows, lighter rear seats made out of different material than normal, etc. There's no telling what he's doing with the suspension besides the shocks and tires.

My faith is in Stielow and a killer suspension that can keep wide sticky tires planted even over rough road changes. This is exactly the right combination for popping off a surprise time at the Ring. I have no doubt they'll be in the 7:20's...it's my hope they'll manage a 7:19 but even if they can't, to have a Camaro that can run in the 7:20's on the Ring that you can buy at a Chevy dealer is astounding.
__________________

Blue Angel is here!!
1SS/RS LS3 M6 IBM
Doc is offline   Reply With Quote
 
Reply

Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump


All times are GMT -5. The time now is 07:17 PM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.7
Copyright ©2000 - 2014, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.