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Camaro Z/28 Forum - Z/28 Specific Topics Discussions related to the 5th gen Camaro Z/28 model

View Poll Results: What Is Your Z/28 Purchase Status?
Serious buyer - done deal! 20 21.28%
Half-Assed buyer - sure I have a deal...lol 3 3.19%
Lazy buyer - Later! Leave me alone! 16 17.02%
Hoping buyer - PLEASE please I hope I can! 55 58.51%
Voters: 94. You may not vote on this poll

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Old 09-27-2013, 12:29 PM   #51
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I have been invited to a number of Pontiac Engineer Reunions and met the pilot (test driver) for the first 1964 GTO. They called him the pilot he was a pilot, but his testing of the first goat explains why things are different and cost more today.



He told me he took it around the perimeter road at what is now the Warren Technical center. It felt good so I kept going faster. I got it a little over 100 and said it was good to go.

Back in 1969 there was no EPA validation for 50 states, there was no crash testing, they didn't spend day after day in the wind tunnel, and the list goes on. Just think of the expense for crash testing the Z/28 due to lower ride height with the 305/30/19s. The vehicle cost is insignificant in comparison to the computer and lab time.
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Old 09-27-2013, 02:26 PM   #52
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While I am just speculating, I can't imagine that GM would have to provide separate crash test data if there has not been any structural changes to the frame of the car. The Z/28 is really a highly modified SS if I remember correctly. No way they crash test a fully equipped Z/28 if there is no crumble zone or impact zone changes as it has the same frame as the SS if I am remembering correctly.
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Old 09-27-2013, 02:32 PM   #53
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While I am just speculating, I can't imagine that GM would have to provide separate crash test data if there has not been any structural changes to the frame of the car. The Z/28 is really a highly modified SS if I remember correctly. No way they crash test a fully equipped Z/28 if there is no crumble zone or impact zone changes as it has the same frame as the SS if I am remembering correctly.
The change in ride height required require crash testing gorgeous shiny new Z/28s. There are BIG BUCKS in the new Z/28!
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Old 09-27-2013, 02:38 PM   #54
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ok, well I stand corrected. I hope they put something else in it beside the very constrained LS7.
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Old 09-27-2013, 03:17 PM   #55
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ok, well I stand corrected. I hope they put something else in it beside the very constrained LS7.
Anyone know where the Z/28 crash testing salvage yard is?
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Old 09-27-2013, 07:08 PM   #56
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Anyone know where the Z/28 crash testing salvage yard is?
hahaha... I'll be right behind to that yard! thanx for the great information . Never thought about the testing and all of that. All we say and think is more sensors , equipment, and gadgets.
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Old 09-27-2013, 07:21 PM   #57
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For your amusement only....Some poor bastard (not on C5) totaled his brand new ZL-1 at the Roval in Fontana about a month ago...He was in one of the more advanced groups, not in mine....lost it on his last session on turn 6....

...Bad luck, too much rwhp....who knows...Nobody knew the guy...He was pretty bummed....and ok. unhurt...

....Just some food for thought....Enjoy...
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Old 09-27-2013, 07:25 PM   #58
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Ugh. My positive thoughts go out to the driver if he reads this. From a tracker's point of view I'll say I am glad the passenger compartment looks like it held up very well in what appears to be a hard hit with something solid (wall). Makes me feel more secure in tracking the forthcoming Z/28. Good work Chevy.

My second observation is that this is superb motivation to always have track insurance. I know the folks at Lockton Affinity, awesome people and product.
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Old 09-27-2013, 07:34 PM   #59
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Ugh. My positive thoughts go out to the driver if he reads this. From a tracker's point of view I'll say I am glad the passenger compartment looks like it held up very well in what appears to be a hard hit with something solid (wall). Makes me feel more secure in tracking the forthcoming Z/28. Good work Chevy.

My second observation is that this is superb motivation to always have track insurance. I know the folks at Lockton Affinity, awesome people and product.
The guy said he had track insurance...not sure with who....We were all hanging around at the end of the day....The owner had left when we took the pics....While checking it out, we noticed the key was still on and it wouldn't turn off and we couldn't disconnect the battery...
When he came back with a flatbed, we helped throw all the broken parts in the trash barrels....It was leaking fluids all over the place, the owner actually was able to start it to help get it on the flat-bed...go figure...
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Old 09-27-2013, 07:38 PM   #60
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For your amusement only....Some poor bastard (not on C5) totaled his brand new ZL-1 at the Roval in Fontana about a month ago...He was in one of the more advanced groups, not in mine....lost it on his last session on turn 6....

...Bad luck, too much rwhp....who knows...Nobody knew the guy...He was pretty bummed....and ok. unhurt...

....Just some food for thought....Enjoy...
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Wow! Right down around the way from me . I could use those tires lol
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Old 09-27-2013, 08:47 PM   #61
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The guy said he had track insurance...not sure with who....We were all hanging around at the end of the day....The owner had left when we took the pics....While checking it out, we noticed the key was still on and it wouldn't turn off and we couldn't disconnect the battery...
When he came back with a flatbed, we helped throw all the broken parts in the trash barrels....It was leaking fluids all over the place, the owner actually was able to start it to help get it on the flat-bed...go figure...
Ugh...sad. The good news is he gets a new car (after paying the insurance deductible) thanks to the track insurance. Hate to hear these stories, but it happens a lot.

High-performance driving school is worth its cost a thousand times over (life-long "insurance policy"). Even then sh*t happens, someone drops oil or antifreeze on the track and you are along for the ride regardless...
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Old 09-27-2013, 09:02 PM   #62
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It was an eye-opener for me...I did the Roval and Buttonwillow with no track insurance....never again....

We had one more session after he crashed....I took it easy and couldn't wait to get off the track...lol....
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Old 09-27-2013, 11:49 PM   #63
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Toys cost money. Really cool toys cost even more. This Z/28 is more, far more than any Z/28 has ever been, therefore expect to pay for it.

BTW, look up the price on a "fully loaded" 1969 Z/28 and compare it to other 1969 cars.

http://www.chevyinfo.net/?page_id=271

Your kind of making my point, the new Z28 is not fully loaded. And it's at least a 50% markup from a loaded SS for the Z28. I understand you have to pay to play, but seems they have lost touch. I bought my first Z28 just out of high school in '78 which was only 7% more than a rally sport V8. At the time it was not easy to swing it working entry-level full-time but it was possible. Don't get me wrong I would love a new Z28, just think this one has fallen away from it's roots a bit. Just my opinion. I respect those that think otherwise. We all love Camaros .
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Old 09-28-2013, 01:31 PM   #64
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Your kind of making my point, the new Z28 is not fully loaded. And it's at least a 50% markup from a loaded SS for the Z28. I understand you have to pay to play, but seems they have lost touch. I bought my first Z28 just out of high school in '78 which was only 7% more than a rally sport V8. At the time it was not easy to swing it working entry-level full-time but it was possible. Don't get me wrong I would love a new Z28, just think this one has fallen away from it's roots a bit. Just my opinion. I respect those that think otherwise. We all love Camaros .
It's roots?...You mean the 1Gen then, if we're really talking about its roots. This Z/28 IS back to its roots and beyond. The 1978 was a far far cry from the roots of the 1Gen. The 5Gen Z/28 "loaded" is very much in line with a 1Gen "loaded", please review the option list from 1969. Today's 5Gen Z/28 already has all that included. You can even get AC on the 5Gen, however not on the 1Gen.
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Old 09-28-2013, 02:39 PM   #65
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Your kind of making my point, the new Z28 is not fully loaded. And it's at least a 50% markup from a loaded SS for the Z28. I understand you have to pay to play, but seems they have lost touch. I bought my first Z28 just out of high school in '78 which was only 7% more than a rally sport V8. At the time it was not easy to swing it working entry-level full-time but it was possible. Don't get me wrong I would love a new Z28, just think this one has fallen away from it's roots a bit. Just my opinion. I respect those that think otherwise. We all love Camaros .
How is it not fully loaded? Hand built 7.0 V8, standard carbon brakes, standard Recaro seats, forged wheels, near racing tires, awesome suspension.
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Old 09-28-2013, 02:53 PM   #66
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How is it not fully loaded? Hand built 7.0 V8, standard carbon brakes, standard Recaro seats, forged wheels, near racing tires, awesome suspension.
That sounds loaded to me !
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Old 09-28-2013, 03:29 PM   #67
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Far more loaded than a 1978 Z28 could of been.
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Old 09-28-2013, 03:38 PM   #68
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Anyone know where the Z/28 crash testing salvage yard is?
Start here...

http://www.schramauto.com/ContactUs.aspx

They've been known to have "unusual" parts...
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Old 09-28-2013, 03:42 PM   #69
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Start here...

http://www.schramauto.com/ContactUs.aspx

They've been known to have "unusual" parts...
LOWDOWN FTW!
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Old 09-28-2013, 03:51 PM   #70
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Your kind of making my point, the new Z28 is not fully loaded. And it's at least a 50% markup from a loaded SS for the Z28. I understand you have to pay to play, but seems they have lost touch. I bought my first Z28 just out of high school in '78 which was only 7% more than a rally sport V8. At the time it was not easy to swing it working entry-level full-time but it was possible. Don't get me wrong I would love a new Z28, just think this one has fallen away from it's roots a bit. Just my opinion. I respect those that think otherwise. We all love Camaros .
Go back to the '69 MSRP list, take a 6-cylinder Camaro, add all the features you can to match a 2013 1LT as close as you can, and you'll find the '69 list would have been over $5,800. You STILL wouldn't have all the electronic and safety features you have, today, nor would you have the build quality you have today.

$5,800, adjusted for today's dollar (X 5.94), = $34,452, considerably more than its current Base Price.

To approximate a Z/28, you'd need to take '69 COPO 9560 ZL1-engined Camaro (@ $7,000 and change) and start adding a very l-o-n-g list of features to it. You'd end up well north of $10,000...which today would be over $60,000...which it will be...
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Old 09-28-2013, 04:14 PM   #71
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A fair 1978 price comparison would be between a Base Firebird Formula and a Trans Am WS6 (4WDB) with the optional T/A 6.6. There was 15% between the Base models, and the other performance options listed totalled another 15%. Keep in mind, 1979 saw over 100,000 T/As assembled, many times more than the number of z/28s we'll see.

Volume pays the benefit of lower piece costs. LACK of volume CO$T$...
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Old 09-28-2013, 08:44 PM   #72
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Go back to the '69 MSRP list, take a 6-cylinder Camaro, add all the features you can to match a 2013 1LT as close as you can, and you'll find the '69 list would have been over $5,800. You STILL wouldn't have all the electronic and safety features you have, today, nor would you have the build quality you have today.

$5,800, adjusted for today's dollar (X 5.94), = $34,452, considerably more than its current Base Price.

To approximate a Z/28, you'd need to take '69 COPO 9560 ZL1-engined Camaro (@ $7,000 and change) and start adding a very l-o-n-g list of features to it. You'd end up well north of $10,000...which today would be over $60,000...which it will be...

I see where your going here, in some aspects prices are lower for some options today. But, how is a ZL1 a Z28? Which is my point. Limited production numbers, hand built motors, excessive markups does not represent what traditionally was a Z28. I just feel it is not a car for the masses. COPO's were rare for a reason. The new Z28 while impressive is a bit too exotic when compared to previous generations of Z28 in terms of prices and production numbers in my opinion.
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Old 09-28-2013, 10:39 PM   #73
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A '69 ZL1 was built in small numbers. It was an all-aluminum 427-engined beast, with an available Sports Car Conversion pkg (COPO 9737). In its day, the COPO 9560 could be built with essentially Z/28 equipment. Weighed the same as a Z/28. And because it was built in small numbers, ALL its development costs (contrary to Vince Piggins' assurance to Fred Gibb) were charged against each car sold. Just the way it will be with the coming Z/28. And LOW volumes makes the developmental costs burden GREATER per unit than it might otherwise be.

Result? An inordinately higher unit MSRP. And THAT is why we sought an earlier release for that vehicle, in this Section. Because we KNEW the lower the total volume built, the higher the unit cost would be...

Make sense, now?

EDIT:
The ZL1 package, COPO 9560, sold for approx. $4150, with mandatory options additional. ZL1 crate engines, back then, could be bought for as little as $2995. The difference in price? Development costs...and THAT was before the days of EPA/CAFE/crash tests... Curiously, '69 COPOs DID have a 5-year powertrain warranty, just like today!
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Old 09-29-2013, 09:45 PM   #74
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...it's not a funny end to this amount of total carnage and cataclysmic wrecks with the ZL1's that has been posted so far. It's shocking. But, anticipated...
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Old 09-30-2013, 12:29 AM   #75
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I see where your going here, in some aspects prices are lower for some options today. But, how is a ZL1 a Z28? Which is my point. Limited production numbers, hand built motors, excessive markups does not represent what traditionally was a Z28. I just feel it is not a car for the masses. COPO's were rare for a reason. The new Z28 while impressive is a bit too exotic when compared to previous generations of Z28 in terms of prices and production numbers in my opinion.
Well, Chevy did say that the Z/28 wasn't for everyone and that it was for hardcore track enthusiast .
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