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Camaro V6 LLT Engine, Exhaust, and Bolt-Ons Bolt-Ons | Intakes | Exhaust

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Old 09-23-2013, 12:01 AM   #1
NoItsOnlyAV6_ButItRocks
 
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Another LLT engine blown up....

Hopefully this thread will help other Camaro owners out there where they by LS, LT or SS or higher. Also I am hopeful that by documenting this, all will go well with a warranty resolution with my dealer.

Back on March 22, 2013 I bought my 2010 2LT RS used from a used car lot that sells Mercedes and Porches. It had been for sale on their lot for several months as an outcast from their high end inventory and I was able to get it for a fantastic price of 22K. It is by far the best and smoothest ride I have ever had. At that time, the oil was full but was dark in color. I ended up doing an oil change at Jiffy Lube on early Saturday morning on Apr 7, 2013. Jiffy Lube mentioned that the oil was 3/4 down. Odd since I had just checked it the day before and it was full. When I left, I forgot to ask and/or they forgot to give me the receipt.

In May someone rear ended me causing $6300 damage but that is another story. Perhaps I should do a thread on that some day to explain the diminished value clam and settlement I pursued on that.

3000 miles after the oil change on Sept 11, 2013 I started hearing an annoying buzz/rattle whenever I would decelerate from 2500 to 2000 RPM. There was no shake to the car. No vibration in the stick. Just a loose sounding piece of metal that I envisioned as being 8" big or so vibrating at certain RPM. I would stop and rev the car in the driveway and no rattle. It only would happen under load.

I started reading on the forum. Several posts led me to think that a heat shield was loose in the tunnel and that the pipes were only rattling something around when under load. I put the car on jacks and checked for loose metal and found a few suspicious things but nothing definitive. I brought the car down and went for another test drive same rattle.

On Sept 14, 2013 I took my friend who tunes and rebuilds Audis full time and he without prompting he said he thought it was something loose in the exhaust system. I put it up on jacks and did the baffle check even though it doesn't really apply since I have FlowMasters. I was stumped. I checked the oil and it was full and has 3000 miles since the last change.

On Sep 19, 2013 while on this subsequent drive, the noise was back. I was dumbfounded and mad that I couldn't figure it out for myself and resolved that I would have to bring it into the dealer and expected/imagined that I would have to pay out several hundred dollars and get no resolution.

I drove another 2 miles and started loosing 20% of my power on acceleration. Then the rattle would happen even without load. It sounding like some small ticking but not major at all. Then 1/4 of that it got loud and definitely sounded like a rod banging around. My guess now is a some serious rod/bearing issue. I stopped where I was, called AAA and had it towed to the local dealer at 11:30 pm.

The next afternoon I called the dealer and the service manager apologized for not getting back to me sooner but that he knew that the district service manger was coming by and he wanted to show him the car and see if it would be covered on warranty. He said it would not because the last time that car fax had an oil change recorded was March 27, 2012 (Note almost a full year before purchase date) and that GM wants the oil changed at least ever 12K miles. [Edit] He also mentioned that there was no oil on the dip stick. [End Edit]. I told him that I did get an oil change right after I bought it and that I would go to Jiffy Lube and get the receipt.

Going to Jiffy Lube, the guy there was fantastic. He spent 5 minutes looking for it on his computer and said that he could not locate it but would have to look in his paper files upstairs. I waited for another 20 minutes and success. He found the original recipe and the yellow copy that normally is given to the customer. I thanked him and was off to the dealer.

Now the weird thing on the receipt is the number of screw ups. They had misspelled my last name, put in a completely wrong license plate number (probably because I have no front plate) and there was no VIN number on the receipt. Fortunately it does have my address and it does list a 2010 Camaro and I paid with Visa. But also the receipt says no oil on the dipstick and sludge in the oil. What the??? Jiffy had told me 3/4 missing and they had told me nothing about sludge.

I got to the dealer and he made a copy of the receipt. Hopefully I will hear good news on Monday.

Last edited by NoItsOnlyAV6_ButItRocks; 09-23-2013 at 10:21 AM.
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Old 09-23-2013, 07:00 AM   #2
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Ouch.. I had my 2010 LLT motor blow on me also. Dealer took care of it under warranty. So far car has 3500 miles on motor. You talked about a heat shield rattling? After I got my car back I noticed this same described sound. I looked at the car on a lift but I didn't seem to find any shields rattling but I know its gotta be a shield of some sort hitting something an only rattling at certain RPM's. What did you find loose on yours? it is very annoying.

Im sorry to hear about your car. Hope everything gets taken care of for you. Keep us posted!
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Old 09-23-2013, 09:36 AM   #3
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sorry about that. I have read about the oil not reading all the time, but check it once a week.
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Old 09-23-2013, 10:24 AM   #4
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Decepticon21 View Post
...Dealer took care of it under warranty. So far car has 3500 miles on motor...
Are you saying 3500 miles on your new motor? Did they say what happened to your original motor?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Decepticon21 View Post
..What did you find loose on yours?..
There was one wire with a plastic connector that was hanging loose on the transmission that was banging around. I zipped tied that. But that was too small to make the sound.

Also the exhaust manifold has some shielding that goes up against the block. Those were loose. But they aren't solid metal. The feel like cardboard with aluminum foil and wouldn't have made the sound I was hearing.

There was one nut missing on one of the heat shields. I bought a new one but that did not help.

I think the sound that I was hearing was a rod bearing but probably won't know for sure until they pull it all apart.

I am just hoping everything goes well on this. I can't stand the fact that the dealer mentioned that there was no oil on the dipstick. I just don't want them to deny the warranty because of that. My saving grace is that I had the oil change at Jiffy Lube 3000 miles ago and that other users on the forum have had the mysterious oil loss as well.
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Old 09-23-2013, 11:34 AM   #5
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Most on the forum with LLT engine failure went by the OLM monitor for oil changes.
Problem is you bought used and don't know the true oil change history
unless you think the carfax shows it all.
I have 25,000 miles and change mine every 4k, absolutely no problems or loss of oil.
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Old 09-23-2013, 12:34 PM   #6
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I don't go off the oil monitor system either an it still happened to my car. Yes my new motor has 3500 on it already. My first motor went at 70000. Cause was something to do with a bearing then it threw a rod and it was a huge huge huge mess!

Im half temped to take it back to the dealer for this damn rattling noise tho.. Never had it before.
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Old 09-23-2013, 02:42 PM   #7
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TooCool5 View Post
Most on the forum with LLT engine failure went by the OLM monitor for oil changes.
Problem is you bought used and don't know the true oil change history
unless you think the carfax shows it all.
I have 25,000 miles and change mine every 4k, absolutely no problems or loss of oil.
This is where things are in my favor. The car fax shows it broken down like this at around 3K per oil change

08/11/11 - 26,855 - Oil change
08/31/11 - Certified Pre-owned
10/04/11 - 28,657 - Oil change
12/30/11 - 30,019 - Oil change
03/27/12 - 31,509 - Oil change
04/07/13 - 34,843 - Oil change
09/19/13 - 37,866 - Engine death

There is other history for oil changes prior to 8-11-11 but I figure that I don't really need to analyze that since it was certified Pre-owned on 8-31-11
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Old 09-23-2013, 02:43 PM   #8
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Decepticon21 View Post
...
Im half temped to take it back to the dealer for this damn rattling noise tho.. Never had it before....
I think you should and have them put something on the paper work to the affect of customer is concerned about "Rod bearing noise" so that we you have something to show for it if it does go again.
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Old 09-23-2013, 02:48 PM   #9
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My car has very low mileage, so I "think" I should be OK, but you never know. That said, my worst fear is that my engine also losses oil and needs replacement, but they deny my warranty as well. I take great care and pride in my car, and always do my oil changes always between 3,000 to 4,000 miles. Full synthetic oil.

But stupid me....I don't have all my receipts that prove I at least bought oil and a filter for the car. I can't believe I didn't keep them all.

Best of luck to you!
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Old 09-23-2013, 03:35 PM   #10
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Yes I forever will now keep ALL my receipts for my cars oil changes I do!
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Old 09-23-2013, 05:01 PM   #11
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Damn, I hate hearing stuff like this. Good luck. I hope it all gets squared away for you. Keep us posted.
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Old 09-23-2013, 09:48 PM   #12
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So far so good! I called the service manager today to see if he had talked to the district service manager and came to a decision about my car. Ye didn't answer me directly but started telling me that the main mechanic that would be working on the car had been working all day Saturday and that he will be back in tomorrow and finish up what he is working on and then start on my car and it will be 10.5 hours to pull it all apart and diagnose what has happened.

So I am thinking that is great they are willing to jump into the work but I didn't want him to go forward with all that work if I was going to get stuck with a huge bill. I figured I could look into swinging a new engine in my self if this warranty claim does not go in my favor. I asked him…"So what is the status of the warranty claim, is this covered then or is it in limbo until you see what the diagnosis is???"

He then put me at ease. He said that everything is on track to have this covered under warranty since I had provided him with the receipt for the oil change, no oil is leaking, the oil plug is there. He is very positive that this will be covered since there is nothing that is telling him otherwise right now. When they do the diagnosis that will tell all. But all looks fine.

Wow! It was the best thing I could hear. I bought the Camaro because it looks and preforms awesome but now I think I am going to turn into a Chevy or die man soon here if everything keeps going this smooth.
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Old 09-24-2013, 07:27 AM   #13
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Well looks like things are on the right path for you bud, Glad to hear. I was surprised by the care I received when my car was in for the same issue. I've never been a dealer guy but I can say chevy has a nice customer service system. Makes me want to get another chevy for sure.
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Old 09-24-2013, 11:44 AM   #14
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Hope this keeps moving along smoothly for you. I just don't trust my local dealerships to do anything on the straight and narrow.
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Old 09-24-2013, 01:43 PM   #15
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Check if your build date is Jan - March 2010 period.

They may know more about this problem than we do.
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Old 09-25-2013, 03:55 PM   #16
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Quote:
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Check if your build date is Jan - March 2010 period.

They may know more about this problem than we do.
I think it was built Sept 2009 but of course I can't verify that without the car here. What is special about Jan-Mar 2010? Is that the timing belt issue or something else?
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Old 09-25-2013, 08:37 PM   #17
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I think it was built Sept 2009 but of course I can't verify that without the car here. What is special about Jan-Mar 2010? Is that the timing belt issue or something else?
We had a blown engine thread around here and those yrs kept coming up.
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Old 09-25-2013, 11:11 PM   #18
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We had a blown engine thread around here and those yrs kept coming up.
Yeah I think you might mean this one.
http://www.camaro5.com/forums/showth...engine+failure

I will ask bcperry to add me to the list when I can confirm the build date.
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Old 09-26-2013, 08:12 PM   #19
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I had another good phone call with the dealer today. He said that they had pulled the motor out and removed the oil pan. The bearing (not sure which one he said) was shot and the crank shaft is badly damaged. There is no oil in there and there is metal every where. He said that he is going to call GM in the morning and petition them for a new motor. He explained to me that visually it looks repairable but with the amount of metal that he is seeing that is loose that there is no way that he could properly clean it out without a complete tear down and sending out the motor to get degreased to assure that the metal gets out of all the oil channels and holes. And with the amount of labor that it would take it would not make any sense to do it. He had not pulled any of the pistons so he does not know yet if there was scoring done there or whether the valves hit or not. He should not from GM tomorrow.

That is great!!! Here I thought I was going to be the one to build a case that a repair does not make sense but he is doing that for me.
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Old 09-27-2013, 03:38 PM   #20
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New motor with design improvements is best way to go.
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Old 09-27-2013, 05:44 PM   #21
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New motor with design improvements is best way to go.
He will get the a LLT motor... no design improvements...
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Old 09-27-2013, 09:49 PM   #22
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Stopped by the dealer and now I have to cross my fingers. The tech called GM and want him to inspect the cam and determine if there is metal up there. If there is then they will replace the motor. If there is no metal then they will recommend a rebuild......He will inspect the cam on Monday.

Here are some pics. It was rod bearing #3 that blew. Fuzzy picture of the cam damage, rod bearing sleeve, metal in the oil pan and the oil pickup filter.
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Old 09-28-2013, 09:21 AM   #23
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He will get the a LLT motor... no design improvements...
Two I know of are improvements to the chains and oil flow check valve
in the head.

Also they will shorten the OLM oil change intervals.
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Old 10-02-2013, 01:26 AM   #24
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I called the dealer today to see if they had inspected the cam. They had. He said that there was metal debris up in the cam and the cam actuator. They called GM and let them know the information and now they are waiting on PQC (I think that is what he said) to approve a new motor.

I had never heard the term of a cam actuator before and after a bit of Googling I found this article: http://tinyurl.com/oomhts8
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Old 10-02-2013, 05:59 PM   #25
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Well the dealer called. Not good. He has informed me that they will not cover this under warranty. Why you ask???... Remember this quote from my initial post...

Quote:
Originally Posted by NoItsOnlyAV6_ButItRocks View Post
...Jiffy Lube...the receipt says no oil on the dipstick and sludge in the oil....
The dealer is telling me that the DMA (District Manager Adviser???) has now noticed that the receipt had this detail on it so they don't want to cover it. But that begs to wonder where the oil is going. Here are my last few oil changes.

...
03/27/12 - 31,509 - Oil change
03/22/13 - 34,247 - Car Purchased - Full oil on dipstick
04/07/13 - 34,840 - Checked Oil - Full Oil on dipstick
04/07/13 - 34,843 - Oil change - Jiffy Lube reports no oil on dipstick and sludge
09/14/13 - 37,8xx - Full oil on dipstick
09/19/13 - 37,866 - Engine death - Dealer reports no oil on dipstick and sludge

I pointed out that the one oil change was just over a year but that the mileage was only 3300 miles.

The dealer suggested that I call back the used car dealer and tell them what happened and see if they can provide any assistance. I have called this other dealer, explained all of the above and he is floored. He as astounded that they will not cover it. He has suggested that I escalate it to GM.

Any suggestions on who/how the best way escalate this?
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