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Old 10-02-2013, 12:47 PM   #51
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Originally Posted by AGM 1LE View Post
But the tune will void it.
You do not need a tune with a CAI intake.
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Old 10-02-2013, 01:22 PM   #52
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Originally Posted by Apex Chase View Post
You do not need a tune with a CAI intake.
As has been said several times now, JR 1's original comment, that prompted a string of "you don't need a tune with CAI's intake" replies, was stating that a tune in and of itself would void your warranty.

He was replying to a question about why Camaro owners (in the poster's opinion) seemed to seek cai's that don't require a tune, while Mustang owners (in the poster's opinion) frequently buy cai's that do require a tune.

No one is saying that you need a tune with CAI's intake.
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Old 10-02-2013, 01:41 PM   #53
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Please don't let any sales people pitch the MMA and state your coverd if you purchase their products. You need to know that you are on your own with any aftermarket parts or alterations to your car. I'm not saying don't mod, heck even I do, but there is no get out of jail law that will cover exclusions to your warranty. Take the time to read you warranty and owners manual if in doubt. Also remember your dealer doesn't hold the warranty, GM does.


Exclusion:

AN IMPORTANT NOTE ABOUT ALTERATIONS AND WARRANTIES. Installations or alterations to the original GM-equipped vehicle (or chassis) are not covered by the General Motors New Vehicle Limited Warranty. The special body company, assembler, equipment installer or upfitter is solely responsible for warranties on the body or equipment and any alterations (or any effect of the alterations) to any of the parts, components, systems or assemblies installed by GM. General Motors is not responsible for the safety or quality of design features, materials or workmanship of any alterations by such suppliers.
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Old 10-02-2013, 01:57 PM   #54
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Originally Posted by SlingShot View Post
Exclusion:

AN IMPORTANT NOTE ABOUT ALTERATIONS AND WARRANTIES. Installations or alterations to the original GM-equipped vehicle (or chassis) are not covered by the General Motors New Vehicle Limited Warranty. The special body company, assembler, equipment installer or upfitter is solely responsible for warranties on the body or equipment and any alterations (or any effect of the alterations) to any of the parts, components, systems or assemblies installed by GM.General Motors is not responsible for the safety or quality of design features, materials or workmanship of any alterations by such suppliers.
Read this very carefully and more than once. It is clearly stating that GM will not cover installing or fixing the aftermarket part or any damage proven to be caused by that part, which I previously mentioned. No where is this exclusion is it stating that a vehicles warranty will be voided or other repairs to the vehicle will not be covered.

I am really not trying to get in a back & forth here. I am simply stating the facts provided by the law, because it is very commonly misrepresented by dealers as well as others who don't really get it, and misunderstood by consumers.

I would agree with you that people need to read their coverage and that the warranty is upheld by GM, and not the dealer.
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Old 10-02-2013, 02:17 PM   #55
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Because CAIs are an aftermarket money making scam and the manufacturers know it. Numerous tests have been done that adding a CAI to an otherwise stock engine will provide nothing noticeably more than a sound difference. Unless your running cat-less on the track, a CAI is useless for performance.

That being said, the stock air-filters are junk and restrictive, but adding a high-flow filter in the stock air intake will net the same gains on an otherwise stock setup.
I would think Ted Jannetty would have something to say about this statement.
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Old 10-02-2013, 02:29 PM   #56
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The wife's 2014 GT 5.0 has one from the factory....but it didn't help her against my SS the other nite
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Old 10-02-2013, 03:10 PM   #57
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In addition to legal requirements like emissions, there are a lot of internal GM requirements for air induction. There are obvious things like flow rate, but the primary purpose of the large factory air boxes are for noise reduction. There are also some pretty severe tests for water and snow ingestion which can be a problem with an exposed filter. Also, cost is a major factor.
+1 on all three points!

I'm glad CAIs aren't available in almost all stock cars.

The goal is to keep cars quiet as possible at idle or low rpm. All those cars with CAIs stop-n-go traffic sounded like a bunch of vacuum cleaners.

If you turn a warmed up stock v6, its quiet for a reason.
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Old 10-02-2013, 03:14 PM   #58
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Originally Posted by Sales @ CAI Inc View Post
Read this very carefully and more than once. It is clearly stating that GM will not cover installing or fixing the aftermarket part or any damage proven to be caused by that part, which I previously mentioned. No where is this exclusion is it stating that a vehicles warranty will be voided or other repairs to the vehicle will not be covered.

I am really not trying to get in a back & forth here. I am simply stating the facts provided by the law, because it is very commonly misrepresented by dealers as well as others who don't really get it, and misunderstood by consumers.

I would agree with you that people need to read their coverage and that the warranty is upheld by GM, and not the dealer.
+1

My dealer told me if I put on a CAI, I'd violate my warranty "because it has too much flow and may damage the MAP sensor" (ummm. Really??).
But I called the warranty dept and they said if a component covered under the warranty stops functioning due to an aftermarket component, it is not covered. Else, it is covered.
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Old 10-02-2013, 03:19 PM   #59
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I would think dealers would go out of their way to push through cars with warranty repairs. They aren't picking up the tab, GM is. Unless GM themselves says a component voided the warranty I would think the dealer would take warranty income all day long.
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Old 10-02-2013, 03:48 PM   #60
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If you are worried about warranty hassles, you can always put it back to stock before taking it in.
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Old 10-02-2013, 09:32 PM   #61
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I have weird noises occasionally sounding like a knocking noise in my suspension area. The Chevy dealership said that it wouldnt be covered because someone alterred the suspension (I put springs, and sway bars on) so basically I could tell them to prove to me that was the main reason to cause the noise that began happening once I hit a bump months after I installed the aftermarket suspension parts?

Let me ask this question while we are on the subject of warranty work: I want to get headers, shortys or long tubes doesnt matter just looking for sound...would this void any warranty? If I keep the cats of course. Could this cause any resulted damage? Thanks in advance
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Old 10-03-2013, 05:58 AM   #62
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Originally Posted by 911medic View Post
As has been said several times now, JR 1's original comment, that prompted a string of "you don't need a tune with CAI's intake" replies, was stating that a tune in and of itself would void your warranty.

He was replying to a question about why Camaro owners (in the poster's opinion) seemed to seek cai's that don't require a tune, while Mustang owners (in the poster's opinion) frequently buy cai's that do require a tune.

No one is saying that you need a tune with CAI's intake.
Ah, that is what I get for dropping in to see where this thread has gone without reading up.

The Mustang and Camaro are two very different animals. The Camaro ECM can make some adjustments on it own where the Mustang can't. It needs a tune just about anytime you lift the hood. It isn't that they seek out intakes that require a tune, it is that any intake worth a damn will require a tune on the Mustang.

Concerning the relationship between modifying your car and your warranty goes, give this a quick look.

Will This Modification Void My Warranty?

The Magnuson-Moss Warranty Act is not a sales tool, it is the law. Here is a quote from a recent article in Edmunds.

Quote:
Aftermarket parts or modifications: This aspect of warranty coverage has a great deal of gray area. Although many dealers would have you think otherwise, simply having an aftermarket part or modifying your vehicle cannot void your warranty.

"Some dealerships may say 'just because you have a [cold air] intake or something' that the whole vehicle warranty is voided," explains Loren Wong, Edmunds associate business analyst and a former warranty administrator for BMW and Acura. "That's not true."
The saving grace for consumers is the Magnuson-Moss Warranty Act of 1975. The act states that a dealer must prove that aftermarket equipment caused the need for repairs before it can deny warranty coverage.

However, if the reason for a parts failure is unclear, a dealer will usually charge you to diagnose the vehicle. If the aftermarket part was not properly installed or a modification led to a component failure, it is within the dealer's right to void the warranty for that part, and you will have to pay for the repairs out of pocket. If the aftermarket parts had nothing to do with the repairs in question, you will be refunded the fee for the diagnosis.

Any aftermarket performance parts on your vehicle can cause a dealer to suspect that you either drive the car hard or possibly race it. "Although they may not void warranties," Wong added, "modifications may raise a red flag when vehicles are in for service. If consumers who mod their cars do a little research, they may find certain dealerships that are a little more 'mod-friendly.'"
And here is a quote posted here on Camaro5 by one of the Chevrolet Customer Service Reps in response to a warranty question.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Chevrolet Customer Svc View Post


Modifications or tunes do not automatically void the powertrain warranty, but in many cases they will. If there is an issue or damage, and it is found to be the result of a modification or tune, then your powertrain warranty will be found void. These products may have detrimental effects on the performance and life of the engine, exhaust, emission system, transmission, and drivetrain. I hope this helps.


Reggie B.
Chevrolet Customer Care
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Old 10-03-2013, 06:03 AM   #63
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Originally Posted by TPAJETSKI View Post
I would think dealers would go out of their way to push through cars with warranty repairs. They aren't picking up the tab, GM is. Unless GM themselves says a component voided the warranty I would think the dealer would take warranty income all day long.
Many do see it that way, but others know that you pay more for the same work than GM does. All they have to do is try to convince you that your warranty won't cover it.
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Old 10-03-2013, 07:06 AM   #64
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I have, and if anything you may see an actual gain of maybe 5 - 10 HP, but sometimes results have been a drop in HP. My point is that a 5 - 10 HP gain is negligible, you won't even feel it, and a stock setup will not benefit from it anymore than a drop-in high-flow filter would. IMO it is certainly not worth paying $400 - $500 for and an hour of my time installing it.

If I want "real" performance increase then I would opt for a header and high-flow cat swap to start, while still using the stock air-intake with a high-flow filter of course. Then if I still wanted to go further I would either do a Head and Cam swap or some sort of forced induction. Then, and maybe only then, would I do a CAI. But I wouldn't even do this without massive suspension, chassis bracing, and brake upgrade as well.

But before I paid for all that I would just buy a Z06 Corvette instead. This is probably Chevrolet's thinking as well, hence what the Op asked in the first place... is why Manufacturers do not put CAIs in stock cars.
I have to agree since it' the route I took.
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Old 10-03-2013, 08:54 AM   #65
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Same reason the mailslot does nothing
Perfect, thanks.
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Old 10-03-2013, 09:02 AM   #66
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Many do see it that way, but others know that you pay more for the same work than GM does. All they have to do is try to convince you that your warranty won't cover it.
Doesn't quite work that way. Every GM dealership is subject to rigid warranty rules and must show verifiable proof of repairs. An AVM or Area Vehicle manager assigned to dealerships in given area, hence area vehicle manager, will visit and check on warranty claims.

One old ruse was to tell customers nothing was wrong with vehicle, record the visit/complaint, send them on the way, usually with an hour service time (since it wasn't under warranty), then charge GM for the repair....for instance, a squealing rear differential on a Silverado. The shop would put some friction modifier in it, and send the guy down the road, then charge GM for a whole rear-differential and labor, ha.

Well, now dealerships must hold onto said replaced parts for 30/60/90 days and show physical evidence to the AVM or the claims are unpaid.

Not saying dealerships can't get away with some of it, especially if the AVM doesn't show up much or is in good with the dealer but the days of double dipping and such are way low. Also, the service dept's margin on warranty work is next to nothing anyways.
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Old 10-03-2013, 09:05 AM   #67
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Doesn't quite work that way. Every GM dealership is subject to rigid warranty rules and must show verifiable proof of repairs. An AVM or Area Vehicle manager assigned to dealerships in given area, hence area vehicle manager, will visit and check on warranty claims.

One old ruse was to tell customers nothing was wrong with vehicle, record the visit/complaint, send them on the way, usually with an hour service time (since it wasn't under warranty), then charge GM for the repair....for instance, a squealing rear differential on a Silverado. The shop would put some friction modifier in it, and send the guy down the road, then charge GM for a whole rear-differential and labor, ha.

Well, now dealerships must hold onto said replaced parts for 30/60/90 days and show physical evidence to the AVM or the claims are unpaid.

Not saying dealerships can't get away with some of it, especially if the AVM doesn't show up much or is in good with the dealer but the days of double dipping and such are way low. Also, the service dept's margin on warranty work is next to nothing anyways.
That is what I was saying. GM will only pay X for a certain warranty repair where they can charge you the full whack if they can convince you that your warranty won't cover it.
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Old 10-03-2013, 11:25 AM   #68
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If I put k&n, roto-fab or airaid cai on my SS do i run the risk of a lean air/fuel mixture and hurting my engine? or burning out sensors?

When if comes to things like my camaro, i'd rather play it safe than sorry and keep my stock intake if theres a chance I may hurt the car with an aftermarket one.
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Old 10-03-2013, 07:14 PM   #69
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Originally Posted by Apex Chase View Post
The Mustang and Camaro are two very different animals. The Camaro ECM can make some adjustments on it own where the Mustang can't. It needs a tune just about anytime you lift the hood. It isn't that they seek out intakes that require a tune, it is that any intake worth a damn will require a tune on the Mustang.
Hmmm. That is interesting. Wonder why Ford went that direction with their ECMs.
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Old 10-04-2013, 10:56 AM   #70
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If I put k&n, roto-fab or airaid cai on my SS do i run the risk of a lean air/fuel mixture and hurting my engine? or burning out sensors?

When if comes to things like my camaro, i'd rather play it safe than sorry and keep my stock intake if theres a chance I may hurt the car with an aftermarket one.
Nope, The Camaro has the ability to self adjust enough to run correctly and with the proper air/fuel ratio.

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Old 10-04-2013, 03:02 PM   #71
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In the gm high tech performance shoot out the stock intake finished second in terms of acceleration. The Fastlane Pipeline was first and the CAI was third. As far as hp was concerned the CAI was first and the stock unit was sixth in HP. If you want to go fast it appears the stock intake provides faster acceleration than all but one aftermarket set up
I guess the question is do you buy a CAI to go fast to brag about the HP!





http://www.gmhightechperformance.com...s/viewall.html

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Old 10-04-2013, 03:18 PM   #72
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In the gm high tech performance shoot out the stock intake finish second in terms of acceleration. The Fastlane Pipeline was first and the CAI was third. As far as hp was concerned the CAI was first and the stock unit was sixth in HP. If you want to go fast it appears the stock intake provides faster acceleration than all but one aftermarket set up
I guess the question is do you buy a CAI to go fast to brag about the HP!


http://www.gmhightechperformance.com...s/viewall.html
As you have already seen, we did really well in that testing. That being said, we probably would have showed even better under better testing conditions. The test was performed in an environment with many variables, so just keep that in mind. Either way, our CAI still did really well in it, I would just questions some of the methods used and conditions that the tests were done in.
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Old 10-08-2013, 04:56 PM   #73
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C&L and JLT CAIs are popular Mustang mods. Both increase airflow enough where a tune is required to avoid running lean and risking detonation. But it seems like everyone here wants to avoid a tune for their Camaro and use something like a Rotofab that doesn't require one. Why is that?
Quote:
Originally Posted by Apex Chase View Post
The Mustang and Camaro are two very different animals. The Camaro ECM can make some adjustments on its own where the Mustang can't. It needs a tune just about anytime you lift the hood. It isn't that they seek out intakes that require a tune, it is that any intake worth a damn will require a tune on the Mustang.
That (finally) looks like the answer to my question. Thanks!
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