Camaro5 Chevy Camaro Forum / Camaro ZL1, SS and V6 Forums - Camaro5.com
 
Emblempros
Go Back   Camaro5 Chevy Camaro Forum / Camaro ZL1, SS and V6 Forums - Camaro5.com > Technical Camaro Topics > Suspension / Brakes / Chassis


Reply
 
Thread Tools
Old 10-03-2013, 09:46 AM   #15
BMR Sales



 
BMR Sales's Avatar
 
Drives: Race Car
Join Date: Sep 2009
Location: Seffner, FL
Posts: 3,832
Let me clear a few things up with this thread, the bushings in question and pictured here are our previous designed BMR Suspension outer trailing arm bushings. We have since redesigned the our outer trailing arm bushings to take care of the issues that were happening with the previous designed bushing and so far we have had zero issues and no complaints. The OP called me and told me he was having some movement in the trailing arm where it mounts on the spindle so I looked up his order and saw that he had our earlier outer trailing arm bushings so I told him that I would send him out a set of our newer designed outer trailing arm bushings free of charge. The hat-style bushing we use for our outer trailing arm bushing is used by other companies and has been used for years in the suspension industry so there honestly is nothing wrong with this particular style of bushing. From there the conversation moved from those particular bushings to what grease he previously used on the poly-urethane bushings and the OP was concerned since he didn't use a synthetic based grease so I told him along with the new outer trailing arm bushings I would send him new replacement bushings for the trailing arms and toe rods just to insure everything was in good working order. As long as the OP uses a synthetic based grease he shouldn't have any further issues with any of his BMR products.

Now installing the zerk fitting in the spindle is a very good idea, you just have to make sure it is located properly so that when you insert grease through it the grease makes it to the grease flutes in the bushing that direct and hold the grease in place to keep the inner sleeve lubed. Just to clear up some information or better yet misinformation here, if you do get some grease on the outer body of the bushing it isn't a big deal whatsoever because it is impossible for there to be any kind of lateral movement because the bushings is captured be the trailing arms. Here is a picture to explain this and show how there can be no lateral movement in this mounting point.

I am not going by any means going to sit up here and say that myself or BMR is perfect but what I can tell is that we do everything within our power to make things right if there is an issue. If anyone ever has an issue with any of their BMR products just get with me and I will make sure we get you taken care of.
Attached Images
 
__________________
T.C. Davis
Camaro Specialist
tc@bmrsuspension.com
813-986-9302
BMR Sales is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-03-2013, 12:50 PM   #16
10 2SS/RS 6M
 
10 2SS/RS 6M's Avatar
 
Drives: 2010 Camaro 2SS/RS 6M Black-s/s
Join Date: Oct 2010
Location: Philadelphia, PA
Posts: 365
Quote:
Originally Posted by BMR Sales View Post
Let me clear a few things up with this thread, the bushings in question and pictured here are our previous designed BMR Suspension outer trailing arm bushings. We have since redesigned the our outer trailing arm bushings to take care of the issues that were happening with the previous designed bushing and so far we have had zero issues and no complaints. The OP called me and told me he was having some movement in the trailing arm where it mounts on the spindle so I looked up his order and saw that he had our earlier outer trailing arm bushings so I told him that I would send him out a set of our newer designed outer trailing arm bushings free of charge. The hat-style bushing we use for our outer trailing arm bushing is used by other companies and has been used for years in the suspension industry so there honestly is nothing wrong with this particular style of bushing. From there the conversation moved from those particular bushings to what grease he previously used on the poly-urethane bushings and the OP was concerned since he didn't use a synthetic based grease so I told him along with the new outer trailing arm bushings I would send him new replacement bushings for the trailing arms and toe rods just to insure everything was in good working order. As long as the OP uses a synthetic based grease he shouldn't have any further issues with any of his BMR products.

Now installing the zerk fitting in the spindle is a very good idea, you just have to make sure it is located properly so that when you insert grease through it the grease makes it to the grease flutes in the bushing that direct and hold the grease in place to keep the inner sleeve lubed. Just to clear up some information or better yet misinformation here, if you do get some grease on the outer body of the bushing it isn't a big deal whatsoever because it is impossible for there to be any kind of lateral movement because the bushings is captured be the trailing arms. Here is a picture to explain this and show how there can be no lateral movement in this mounting point.

I am not going by any means going to sit up here and say that myself or BMR is perfect but what I can tell is that we do everything within our power to make things right if there is an issue. If anyone ever has an issue with any of their BMR products just get with me and I will make sure we get you taken care of.
Thanks BMR suspension for sending me the new bushings at no charge as I already mentioned, and the new style knuckle bushings, as you can see there installed in the pictures.
I'm still having problems with my rear alignment- toe keeps changing, I'm going to check everything else in the rear suspension real good AGAIN, then align it, then see what happens.
But I am going to replace ALL the bushing front and rear and solid cradle bushings in the near future when I buy the Hammerhead differential. Like I said, I wasn't down grading your products, and to replace them at no charge shows BMR suspension cares about there products, yes it was my fault for not using the correct grease, that ruined the toe link bushings, so that's why I said I appreciate your help. I'll keep informed on how I make out and what the problem is.
__________________
SLP- long tube headers, hi flow cats w/full SLP 3'' PowerFlo exhaust incl/X-pipe, 160 degree stat, SLP Blackwing CAI. Dyno tuned by ECS-407/409RWHP&TQ. BMR- trailing arms w/poly knuckle bushings, toe links, cradle bushings and differential bushings. QA1 rear lower control arms. Hurst short throw shifter, DSS- level 4 axles, DSS- aluminum driveshaft, Pfadt- sport 1.5" rear sway-bar. SPOHN 1.25" front sway-bar. Monster LT1-S twin clutch. Prothane motor mounts. Best 1/4 mile so far- 12:70ET @ 112.24 MPH w/ 2.06 60', 2010.
10 2SS/RS 6M is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-03-2013, 01:14 PM   #17
BMR Sales



 
BMR Sales's Avatar
 
Drives: Race Car
Join Date: Sep 2009
Location: Seffner, FL
Posts: 3,832
Quote:
Originally Posted by 10 2SS/RS 6M View Post
Thanks BMR suspension for sending me the new bushings at no charge as I already mentioned, and the new style knuckle bushings, as you can see there installed in the pictures.
I'm still having problems with my rear alignment- toe keeps changing, I'm going to check everything else in the rear suspension real good AGAIN, then align it, then see what happens.
But I am going to replace ALL the bushing front and rear and solid cradle bushings in the near future when I buy the Hammerhead differential. Like I said, I wasn't down grading your products, and to replace them at no charge shows BMR suspension cares about there products, yes it was my fault for not using the correct grease, that ruined the toe link bushings, so that's why I said I appreciate your help. I'll keep informed on how I make out and what the problem is.
Did you replace the toe rod bushings with new ones we sent out to you? If not I would do that because the old poly-urethane bushings are compromised due to the incorrect grease being used. If you have already replaced the toe rod bushings with the new ones I sent out to you than there has to be something else going on.

I know you weren't down grading us or our products at all I just wanted to clarify a few points that were brought up in the thread so the whole picture was shown to people viewing it. Keep me informed of what you come up with and I will help you out in any way we can.
__________________
T.C. Davis
Camaro Specialist
tc@bmrsuspension.com
813-986-9302
BMR Sales is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-03-2013, 07:41 PM   #18
10 2SS/RS 6M
 
10 2SS/RS 6M's Avatar
 
Drives: 2010 Camaro 2SS/RS 6M Black-s/s
Join Date: Oct 2010
Location: Philadelphia, PA
Posts: 365
Quote:
Originally Posted by BMR Sales View Post
Did you replace the toe rod bushings with new ones we sent out to you? If not I would do that because the old poly-urethane bushings are compromised due to the incorrect grease being used. If you have already replaced the toe rod bushings with the new ones I sent out to you than there has to be something else going on.

I know you weren't down grading us or our products at all I just wanted to clarify a few points that were brought up in the thread so the whole picture was shown to people viewing it. Keep me informed of what you come up with and I will help you out in any way we can.
I had to take the toe links off and put the stock toe links back on, the bushings were really soft and compromised especially from the petroleum based grease and the heat (over 90 degree's, ambient temps) the car was shifting to the right and left when laying on it and especially when down shifting, so as I was lifting it on the lift to check it I noticed the left rear wheel shifted a little toooo much, so I checked the side the side movement and there was was approx 1/4'' or more of movement, that's when I took them off and put the stock links on (my daily driver for now) then examined the toe links and noticed the damage.
When I replaced the trailing arm bushings with the new style bushings and pins is when I noticed the damage to the old style bushings and pins.
The car never felt better with all the new bushings after aligned. It wasn't until I greased them maybe a little too much with the SuperLube is when I started having the toe issue problems. I think I broke the rule that more is not always better!
For now I plan on trying it for a while maybe take all the bushings back out and inspect them, clean them up, install them and align it and see how it goes. Then in the future replace them all, front and rear and stronger control arms etc..
__________________
SLP- long tube headers, hi flow cats w/full SLP 3'' PowerFlo exhaust incl/X-pipe, 160 degree stat, SLP Blackwing CAI. Dyno tuned by ECS-407/409RWHP&TQ. BMR- trailing arms w/poly knuckle bushings, toe links, cradle bushings and differential bushings. QA1 rear lower control arms. Hurst short throw shifter, DSS- level 4 axles, DSS- aluminum driveshaft, Pfadt- sport 1.5" rear sway-bar. SPOHN 1.25" front sway-bar. Monster LT1-S twin clutch. Prothane motor mounts. Best 1/4 mile so far- 12:70ET @ 112.24 MPH w/ 2.06 60', 2010.
10 2SS/RS 6M is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-04-2013, 08:06 AM   #19
BMR Sales



 
BMR Sales's Avatar
 
Drives: Race Car
Join Date: Sep 2009
Location: Seffner, FL
Posts: 3,832
Quote:
Originally Posted by 10 2SS/RS 6M View Post
I had to take the toe links off and put the stock toe links back on, the bushings were really soft and compromised especially from the petroleum based grease and the heat (over 90 degree's, ambient temps) the car was shifting to the right and left when laying on it and especially when down shifting, so as I was lifting it on the lift to check it I noticed the left rear wheel shifted a little toooo much, so I checked the side the side movement and there was was approx 1/4'' or more of movement, that's when I took them off and put the stock links on (my daily driver for now) then examined the toe links and noticed the damage.
When I replaced the trailing arm bushings with the new style bushings and pins is when I noticed the damage to the old style bushings and pins.
The car never felt better with all the new bushings after aligned. It wasn't until I greased them maybe a little too much with the SuperLube is when I started having the toe issue problems. I think I broke the rule that more is not always better!
For now I plan on trying it for a while maybe take all the bushings back out and inspect them, clean them up, install them and align it and see how it goes. Then in the future replace them all, front and rear and stronger control arms etc..
I am not surprised to see that much movement in the poly-urethane bushings since they were installed for quite a while and the wrong grease was being used. It is unfortunate but poly-urethane is pretty sensitive to the grease used to lubricate it and if the wrong grease is used for an extended period of time it will soften the bushings up and the tolerance between the inner sleeve and the bushings themselves will increase.

If you put all the brand new bushings in that I sent you (trailing arms, outer trailing arms, and toe rods) and still had some play back there the issues is going to be somewhere else. I would definitely dig into it a little further and see what you come up with. It is virtually impossible to over grease them because the will only take up as much room as physically available and the rest will either shoot out the sides of the bushing or back out the zerk fitting.

If you dig in deeper and find out what is going let me know. I am thinking that there is something that might be being over looked.
__________________
T.C. Davis
Camaro Specialist
tc@bmrsuspension.com
813-986-9302
BMR Sales is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-04-2013, 12:58 PM   #20
10 2SS/RS 6M
 
10 2SS/RS 6M's Avatar
 
Drives: 2010 Camaro 2SS/RS 6M Black-s/s
Join Date: Oct 2010
Location: Philadelphia, PA
Posts: 365
Quote:
Originally Posted by BMR Sales View Post
I am not surprised to see that much movement in the poly-urethane bushings since they were installed for quite a while and the wrong grease was being used. It is unfortunate but poly-urethane is pretty sensitive to the grease used to lubricate it and if the wrong grease is used for an extended period of time it will soften the bushings up and the tolerance between the inner sleeve and the bushings themselves will increase.

If you put all the brand new bushings in that I sent you (trailing arms, outer trailing arms, and toe rods) and still had some play back there the issues is going to be somewhere else. I would definitely dig into it a little further and see what you come up with. It is virtually impossible to over grease them because the will only take up as much room as physically available and the rest will either shoot out the sides of the bushing or back out the zerk fitting.




If you dig in deeper and find out what is going let me know. I am thinking that there is something that might be being over looked.

All the new bushings are installed and greased with the installation lube, there was NO movement once new bushings were installed, it was after I greased them is when I started having the toe issues, and still no movement.
I did notice some of the grease working it's way out after a couple days or so after I greased them that is when I started having the toe problems, there was also no movement either then, if It starts to happen again I'm really going to start digging deeper, but it all looks good.
I want to mount a camera under there to see what's happening if it does it again, due to it only happening when there's a load= forward acceleration or down shifting. I will definitely let you know if the problem persist and find out what is causing it if it starts happening again, thanks.
__________________
SLP- long tube headers, hi flow cats w/full SLP 3'' PowerFlo exhaust incl/X-pipe, 160 degree stat, SLP Blackwing CAI. Dyno tuned by ECS-407/409RWHP&TQ. BMR- trailing arms w/poly knuckle bushings, toe links, cradle bushings and differential bushings. QA1 rear lower control arms. Hurst short throw shifter, DSS- level 4 axles, DSS- aluminum driveshaft, Pfadt- sport 1.5" rear sway-bar. SPOHN 1.25" front sway-bar. Monster LT1-S twin clutch. Prothane motor mounts. Best 1/4 mile so far- 12:70ET @ 112.24 MPH w/ 2.06 60', 2010.
10 2SS/RS 6M is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-04-2013, 02:53 PM   #21
BMR Sales



 
BMR Sales's Avatar
 
Drives: Race Car
Join Date: Sep 2009
Location: Seffner, FL
Posts: 3,832
Quote:
Originally Posted by 10 2SS/RS 6M View Post
All the new bushings are installed and greased with the installation lube, there was NO movement once new bushings were installed, it was after I greased them is when I started having the toe issues, and still no movement.
I did notice some of the grease working it's way out after a couple days or so after I greased them that is when I started having the toe problems, there was also no movement either then, if It starts to happen again I'm really going to start digging deeper, but it all looks good.
I want to mount a camera under there to see what's happening if it does it again, due to it only happening when there's a load= forward acceleration or down shifting. I will definitely let you know if the problem persist and find out what is causing it if it starts happening again, thanks.
Definitely keep me updated and we will work to get everything figured out so you are happy with everything.
__________________
T.C. Davis
Camaro Specialist
tc@bmrsuspension.com
813-986-9302
BMR Sales is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-21-2013, 07:56 PM   #22
10 2SS/RS 6M
 
10 2SS/RS 6M's Avatar
 
Drives: 2010 Camaro 2SS/RS 6M Black-s/s
Join Date: Oct 2010
Location: Philadelphia, PA
Posts: 365
Quote:
Originally Posted by BMR Sales View Post
Definitely keep me updated and we will work to get everything figured out so you are happy with everything.
I did find what was causing the severe toe movement on the rear wheels.
One- Was my fought, before I put the wheels back on I always torque the toe rod bolts on the knuckle side first, but while I was greasing that bushing (with wheels on) it wasn't taking any grease at all, so I loosened the bolt and out came the grease, but I never went back and re-torqued the bolt!
Two- So while I was checking things out back there I also noticed a bit (no, a lot!) of lower control arm movement. I'm sure the 1 1/2'' thick PFADT Race Engineering sway bar don't help with the flimsy stock control arms, so since I stopped the violent movement on the left rear wheel I'm going to replace the stock lower control arms with your TCA028's lower control arms (they look strong!), I should notice a difference with them. The uppers control arms and bushings are next, just need to do a little at a time right now.
Thanks for the help, EVERYONE.
__________________
SLP- long tube headers, hi flow cats w/full SLP 3'' PowerFlo exhaust incl/X-pipe, 160 degree stat, SLP Blackwing CAI. Dyno tuned by ECS-407/409RWHP&TQ. BMR- trailing arms w/poly knuckle bushings, toe links, cradle bushings and differential bushings. QA1 rear lower control arms. Hurst short throw shifter, DSS- level 4 axles, DSS- aluminum driveshaft, Pfadt- sport 1.5" rear sway-bar. SPOHN 1.25" front sway-bar. Monster LT1-S twin clutch. Prothane motor mounts. Best 1/4 mile so far- 12:70ET @ 112.24 MPH w/ 2.06 60', 2010.
10 2SS/RS 6M is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-22-2013, 03:35 PM   #23
BMR Sales



 
BMR Sales's Avatar
 
Drives: Race Car
Join Date: Sep 2009
Location: Seffner, FL
Posts: 3,832
Quote:
Originally Posted by 10 2SS/RS 6M View Post
I did find what was causing the severe toe movement on the rear wheels.
One- Was my fought, before I put the wheels back on I always torque the toe rod bolts on the knuckle side first, but while I was greasing that bushing (with wheels on) it wasn't taking any grease at all, so I loosened the bolt and out came the grease, but I never went back and re-torqued the bolt!
Two- So while I was checking things out back there I also noticed a bit (no, a lot!) of lower control arm movement. I'm sure the 1 1/2'' thick PFADT Race Engineering sway bar don't help with the flimsy stock control arms, so since I stopped the violent movement on the left rear wheel I'm going to replace the stock lower control arms with your TCA028's lower control arms (they look strong!), I should notice a difference with them. The uppers control arms and bushings are next, just need to do a little at a time right now.
Thanks for the help, EVERYONE.
Our BMR non-adjustable lower control arms (TCA028) are definitely much beefier and stronger than the factory lower control arms and will provide considerably more stability in the rear suspension. When you are ready for the parts let us know and we will make sure we get you taken care of.
__________________
T.C. Davis
Camaro Specialist
tc@bmrsuspension.com
813-986-9302
BMR Sales is offline   Reply With Quote
 
Reply

Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump


All times are GMT -5. The time now is 09:09 AM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.9 Beta 4
Copyright ©2000 - 2016, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.