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Old 10-06-2013, 09:54 PM   #341
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Yep. Didn't look like this before the track.

Here's a shot of the passenger side front rotor - same thing. The streaking sure is weird.
That does look interesting. How is the pad wearing? Nice and even? How is the rotor? Is it grooved or just look streaked?
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Old 10-06-2013, 10:00 PM   #342
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That does look interesting. How is the pad wearing? Nice and even? How is the rotor? Is it grooved or just look streaked?
Haven't looked at the pads, but from the outside the pad seems the same thickness across different dimensions.

Rotors are all like this - streaked, sort of. Does not rub off. I ran my finger over the rotor and cannot feel any grooves. However, the shiny parts are lower friction than the dull parts (if that makes sense). Finger slides easily over shiny parts, a little less so on dull parts.

BTW same pattern of shiny and dull on rear rotors that are OEM, not slotted.
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Old 10-06-2013, 10:07 PM   #343
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Haven't looked at the pads, but from the outside the pad seems the same thickness across different dimensions.

Rotors are all like this - streaked, sort of. Does not rub off. I ran my finger over the rotor and cannot feel any grooves. However, the shiny parts are lower friction than the dull parts (if that makes sense). Finger slides easily over shiny parts, a little less so on dull parts.

BTW same pattern of shiny and dull on rear rotors that are OEM, not slotted.
How was the braking? Any fade? Better than the old pads? Worse?
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Old 10-06-2013, 10:11 PM   #344
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How was the braking? Any fade? Better than the old pads? Worse?
Seems to haul it down better than the RB light-duty pads. Some vibration through the pedal, which I assumed was because of the slots. Better bite.
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Old 10-06-2013, 10:26 PM   #345
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Seems to haul it down better than the RB light-duty pads. Some vibration through the pedal, which I assumed was because of the slots. Better bite.
You had the slots with the other pads and no vibration?
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Old 10-06-2013, 10:30 PM   #346
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Could you post a picture of your rotors so we can compare them to SSsoon?
Here you go Pete
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Old 10-06-2013, 10:43 PM   #347
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Here you go Pete
Thank you. They look great.
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Old 10-07-2013, 06:28 AM   #348
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You had the slots with the other pads and no vibration?
Have had the slotted rotors on since the summer and with the other pads I felt the vibration too. Not crazy warped-rotors type vibration, just "chunk-chunk-chunk" when I braked hard as the pads bit. But, remember, the same streaky pattern shows on my rear rotors and they are OEM.

So looking at SoCal's rotors, I am confused. His look clean and uniform across. Mine have shiny and dull streaks. I am wondering whether the dull areas are where there is a transfer layer of pad material on the brake, but the shiny areas are where the transfer layer has been rubbed off entirely. That somehow the rotors are a little warped or the pads are uneven and are only contacting where the shiny areas are, and have rubbed the transfer layer right off?

It does not make sense that taking the car to the track causes the transfer layer on the rotors to disappear in spots, but I wonder if that is somehow what has happened
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Old 10-07-2013, 10:25 AM   #349
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I suspect if the rotors are warped you would know...the description, especially on track would be more than "some vibration" Wish i could help you, i was trying i see if maybe the streaks are related to the actual holes but it doesn't look like it. Are the streaks the same areas on all 4?
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Old 10-07-2013, 11:14 AM   #350
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I suspect if the rotors are warped you would know...the description, especially on track would be more than "some vibration" Wish i could help you, i was trying i see if maybe the streaks are related to the actual holes but it doesn't look like it. Are the streaks the same areas on all 4?
I don't think the streaking is related to the holes - I thought that originally but no real pattern. And, also, it IS on all four rotors, and the back pair are not slotted, just OEM.

Back rotors were turned just a little prior to installing these last week, just to flatten them out.
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Old 10-07-2013, 01:15 PM   #351
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I don't think the streaking is related to the holes - I thought that originally but no real pattern. And, also, it IS on all four rotors, and the back pair are not slotted, just OEM.

Back rotors were turned just a little prior to installing these last week, just to flatten them out.
Pete,

What you see from the Cobalt Friction pads is what I expect to see. I think you are correct about the streaks being from the pad material. I think you are operating at the thermal edge of operation.
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Old 10-07-2013, 03:48 PM   #352
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Pete,

What you see from the Cobalt Friction pads is what I expect to see. I think you are correct about the streaks being from the pad material. I think you are operating at the thermal edge of operation.
I've been doing some calling to brake pad manufacturers. The Hawk people were friendly but not really helpful. Their suggestion was that I did not bed the brakes in correctly. That's possible, but you would have thought that after a run on the track they would have been bedded. Could offer no assurances that any other product I would buy from them would not have similar problems if I did not get the bedding process just right. But since bedding process would vary across different cars, tracks, weather, etc. he couldn't tell me what my specific bedding process would be. Said it was NOT that I exceeded the temp range on the pads, because it would have turned blue (more on this later)

Spoke to the Cobalt racing pad folks. Wow, do they know their stuff (Andy in particular). Has tested all competitors' pads and confirms from the pix that the fronts of a 2011 Camaro is more than the DTC-30 can handle at these kinds of speeds. My sense is that he wasn't just trying to sell his stuff - he talked through what was in all probability going on here. Uneven heat distribution from the pad causing this kind of glazing at some points. So, not bedding, but too much heat. I asked about the "turning blue" thing and Andy pointed out that what color they turn depends entirely on the pad material. No way that every brake in the world turns blue if they are made of totally different materials. Makes sense, huh? So much for the Hawk guy.

Cobalt pads require no bedding to be effective, though bedding increases stopping power and wear by 10% apparently. So, rather than just try a different Hawk pad where I still might not get it bedded exactly their way, I am going to order Cobalt XR2 for the fronts and XR4 for the rears. Unfortunately that will take a bit to do (they don't keep inventory) so in the mean time I am going to clean up the rotors and put OE pads on, then use those pads for street driving when I am not racing. (sigh - finally giving in here).

Thanks to everyone for comments and thoughts. Just wanted to post resolution (at least so far) and will report more after VIR this weekend on OE pads, and then after VIR in a few weeks on Cobalt pads.

Pete
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Old 10-07-2013, 03:54 PM   #353
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I've been doing some calling to brake pad manufacturers. The Hawk people were friendly but not really helpful. Their suggestion was that I did not bed the brakes in correctly. That's possible, but you would have thought that after a run on the track they would have been bedded. Could offer no assurances that any other product I would buy from them would not have similar problems if I did not get the bedding process just right. But since bedding process would vary across different cars, tracks, weather, etc. he couldn't tell me what my specific bedding process would be. Said it was NOT that I exceeded the temp range on the pads, because it would have turned blue (more on this later)

Spoke to the Cobalt racing pad folks. Wow, do they know their stuff (Andy in particular). Has tested all competitors' pads and confirms from the pix that the fronts of a 2011 Camaro is more than the DTC-30 can handle at these kinds of speeds. My sense is that he wasn't just trying to sell his stuff - he talked through what was in all probability going on here. Uneven heat distribution from the pad causing this kind of glazing at some points. So, not bedding, but too much heat. I asked about the "turning blue" thing and Andy pointed out that what color they turn depends entirely on the pad material. No way that every brake in the world turns blue if they are made of totally different materials. Makes sense, huh? So much for the Hawk guy.

Cobalt pads require no bedding to be effective, though bedding increases stopping power and wear by 10% apparently. So, rather than just try a different Hawk pad where I still might not get it bedded exactly their way, I am going to order Cobalt XR2 for the fronts and XR4 for the rears. Unfortunately that will take a bit to do (they don't keep inventory) so in the mean time I am going to clean up the rotors and put OE pads on, then use those pads for street driving when I am not racing. (sigh - finally giving in here).

Thanks to everyone for comments and thoughts. Just wanted to post resolution (at least so far) and will report more after VIR this weekend on OE pads, and then after VIR in a few weeks on Cobalt pads.

Pete
Pete,

Give Andy a ring back and tell him I prefer the XR1 up front and XR3 in the rear. See what he says.
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Old 10-07-2013, 03:57 PM   #354
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Pete,

Give Andy a ring back and tell him I prefer the XR1 up front and XR3 in the rear. See what he says.
We talked about this. I explained that on the OE pad I had a good sense for where the ABS would kick in, and that even on the Hawk pads I had ABS coming on. In his words "XR1 will trigger the ABS as soon as you breathe on it" So I am thinking he's trying to match the pad to the driving style. I think I want to see XR2/XR4 first and then next time around maybe upgrade...
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Old 10-07-2013, 03:58 PM   #355
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We talked about this. I explained that on the OE pad I had a good sense for where the ABS would kick in, and that even on the Hawk pads I had ABS coming on. In his words "XR1 will trigger the ABS as soon as you breathe on it" So I am thinking he's trying to match the pad to the driving style. I think I want to see XR2/XR4 first and then next time around maybe upgrade...
Makes sense, though with the 1LE brake cal, we have not seen that.
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Old 10-07-2013, 04:51 PM   #356
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Makes sense, though with the 1LE brake cal, we have not seen that.
Hmm, I haven't felt that with mine, although have CTSV upfront and I had them hot enough to throw sparks off...LOL You love the new pads, they'll stop you....
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Old 10-07-2013, 04:52 PM   #357
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Hmm, I haven't felt that with mine, although have CTSV upfront and I had them hot enough to throw sparks off...LOL
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