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Old 10-07-2013, 12:15 PM   #351
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I don't think the streaking is related to the holes - I thought that originally but no real pattern. And, also, it IS on all four rotors, and the back pair are not slotted, just OEM.

Back rotors were turned just a little prior to installing these last week, just to flatten them out.
Pete,

What you see from the Cobalt Friction pads is what I expect to see. I think you are correct about the streaks being from the pad material. I think you are operating at the thermal edge of operation.
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Old 10-07-2013, 02:48 PM   #352
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Pete,

What you see from the Cobalt Friction pads is what I expect to see. I think you are correct about the streaks being from the pad material. I think you are operating at the thermal edge of operation.
I've been doing some calling to brake pad manufacturers. The Hawk people were friendly but not really helpful. Their suggestion was that I did not bed the brakes in correctly. That's possible, but you would have thought that after a run on the track they would have been bedded. Could offer no assurances that any other product I would buy from them would not have similar problems if I did not get the bedding process just right. But since bedding process would vary across different cars, tracks, weather, etc. he couldn't tell me what my specific bedding process would be. Said it was NOT that I exceeded the temp range on the pads, because it would have turned blue (more on this later)

Spoke to the Cobalt racing pad folks. Wow, do they know their stuff (Andy in particular). Has tested all competitors' pads and confirms from the pix that the fronts of a 2011 Camaro is more than the DTC-30 can handle at these kinds of speeds. My sense is that he wasn't just trying to sell his stuff - he talked through what was in all probability going on here. Uneven heat distribution from the pad causing this kind of glazing at some points. So, not bedding, but too much heat. I asked about the "turning blue" thing and Andy pointed out that what color they turn depends entirely on the pad material. No way that every brake in the world turns blue if they are made of totally different materials. Makes sense, huh? So much for the Hawk guy.

Cobalt pads require no bedding to be effective, though bedding increases stopping power and wear by 10% apparently. So, rather than just try a different Hawk pad where I still might not get it bedded exactly their way, I am going to order Cobalt XR2 for the fronts and XR4 for the rears. Unfortunately that will take a bit to do (they don't keep inventory) so in the mean time I am going to clean up the rotors and put OE pads on, then use those pads for street driving when I am not racing. (sigh - finally giving in here).

Thanks to everyone for comments and thoughts. Just wanted to post resolution (at least so far) and will report more after VIR this weekend on OE pads, and then after VIR in a few weeks on Cobalt pads.

Pete
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Old 10-07-2013, 02:54 PM   #353
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I've been doing some calling to brake pad manufacturers. The Hawk people were friendly but not really helpful. Their suggestion was that I did not bed the brakes in correctly. That's possible, but you would have thought that after a run on the track they would have been bedded. Could offer no assurances that any other product I would buy from them would not have similar problems if I did not get the bedding process just right. But since bedding process would vary across different cars, tracks, weather, etc. he couldn't tell me what my specific bedding process would be. Said it was NOT that I exceeded the temp range on the pads, because it would have turned blue (more on this later)

Spoke to the Cobalt racing pad folks. Wow, do they know their stuff (Andy in particular). Has tested all competitors' pads and confirms from the pix that the fronts of a 2011 Camaro is more than the DTC-30 can handle at these kinds of speeds. My sense is that he wasn't just trying to sell his stuff - he talked through what was in all probability going on here. Uneven heat distribution from the pad causing this kind of glazing at some points. So, not bedding, but too much heat. I asked about the "turning blue" thing and Andy pointed out that what color they turn depends entirely on the pad material. No way that every brake in the world turns blue if they are made of totally different materials. Makes sense, huh? So much for the Hawk guy.

Cobalt pads require no bedding to be effective, though bedding increases stopping power and wear by 10% apparently. So, rather than just try a different Hawk pad where I still might not get it bedded exactly their way, I am going to order Cobalt XR2 for the fronts and XR4 for the rears. Unfortunately that will take a bit to do (they don't keep inventory) so in the mean time I am going to clean up the rotors and put OE pads on, then use those pads for street driving when I am not racing. (sigh - finally giving in here).

Thanks to everyone for comments and thoughts. Just wanted to post resolution (at least so far) and will report more after VIR this weekend on OE pads, and then after VIR in a few weeks on Cobalt pads.

Pete
Pete,

Give Andy a ring back and tell him I prefer the XR1 up front and XR3 in the rear. See what he says.
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Old 10-07-2013, 02:57 PM   #354
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Pete,

Give Andy a ring back and tell him I prefer the XR1 up front and XR3 in the rear. See what he says.
We talked about this. I explained that on the OE pad I had a good sense for where the ABS would kick in, and that even on the Hawk pads I had ABS coming on. In his words "XR1 will trigger the ABS as soon as you breathe on it" So I am thinking he's trying to match the pad to the driving style. I think I want to see XR2/XR4 first and then next time around maybe upgrade...
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Old 10-07-2013, 02:58 PM   #355
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We talked about this. I explained that on the OE pad I had a good sense for where the ABS would kick in, and that even on the Hawk pads I had ABS coming on. In his words "XR1 will trigger the ABS as soon as you breathe on it" So I am thinking he's trying to match the pad to the driving style. I think I want to see XR2/XR4 first and then next time around maybe upgrade...
Makes sense, though with the 1LE brake cal, we have not seen that.
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Old 10-07-2013, 03:51 PM   #356
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Makes sense, though with the 1LE brake cal, we have not seen that.
Hmm, I haven't felt that with mine, although have CTSV upfront and I had them hot enough to throw sparks off...LOL You love the new pads, they'll stop you....
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Old 10-07-2013, 03:52 PM   #357
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Hmm, I haven't felt that with mine, although have CTSV upfront and I had them hot enough to throw sparks off...LOL
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Old 10-07-2013, 03:53 PM   #358
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Hmm, I haven't felt that with mine, although have CTSV upfront and I had them hot enough to throw sparks off...LOL You love the new pads, they'll stop you....
Tell me again what pads you are running So Cal?
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Old 10-07-2013, 03:56 PM   #359
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Tell me again what pads you are running So Cal?

Cobalt Friction, 1's in the front, 3's in the rear. Pete's recommendation.
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Old 10-07-2013, 03:58 PM   #360
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Cobalt Friction, 1's in the front, 3's in the rear. Pete's recommendation.
Any comments on braking performance and ABS kicking in?

Any thoughts on bedding, etc?

Thanks man
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Old 10-07-2013, 03:59 PM   #361
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Cobalt Friction, 1's in the front, 3's in the rear. Pete's recommendation.
Six pot fronts with 4 pot rears.

Our first SS run in 2009 we had four pots with XR1 and XR3. Worked great. When we added the six pot fronts we found that some drivers wanted more rear brake so we used XR2 in the rear. Others swear by XR1 and XR3. Our drivers also like to split hairs.
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Old 10-07-2013, 04:01 PM   #362
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Any comments on braking performance and ABS kicking in?

Any thoughts on bedding, etc?

Thanks man
They'll be fine by turn 2 of your first hot lap after the warm up.
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Old 10-07-2013, 04:25 PM   #363
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Any comments on braking performance and ABS kicking in?

Any thoughts on bedding, etc?

Thanks man
I haven't experienced the ABS kicking in unless I want it too. Unless I slam on the brakes hard trying to engage ABS, never have it kick in.

I didn't do anything to bed them in, just drove on them normally until at the track, at the track heated them up on the parade lap, they work great.
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Old 10-07-2013, 04:26 PM   #364
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Six pot fronts with 4 pot rears.

Our first SS run in 2009 we had four pots with XR1 and XR3. Worked great. When we added the six pot fronts we found that some drivers wanted more rear brake so we used XR2 in the rear. Others swear by XR1 and XR3. Our drivers also like to split hairs.
Considering one of your drivers is kinda hard on parts, couldn't imagine why he would want more rear brake....LOL
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