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Old 09-21-2013, 11:34 PM   #18
HarryNW
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Originally Posted by keving2873 View Post
HarryNW, do they have a roundabout time of being finished? I would like to take a look at your setup once finished as I might be going that direction and would love to see it in person.
Hoping Tues/Weds of next week at the latest. Will post here as soon as it is completed. I took the opportunity with it jacked up to remove and take home the Brembo calipers for painting. Took them back Friday. They were working out the final oil pump location as it did not fit in the prescribed location due to the power steering unit, but Ed already worked out a solution. Otherwise, most of the gear was hung Friday. Will see...

Curious what you ran into with Alex - PM me. He and Ed have been great so far, and their clientele is pretty impressive - a lot of professional racers seem to like taking their cars there.
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Old 09-26-2013, 07:08 PM   #19
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Update from Alex and Ed - the car is on its feet again, but there was an issue with the AGP Kit's exhaust pipes being too short!? So they had to take it up to the muffler shop and have them mate the exhaust together. Beyond that, the only thing left is the AEM Boost Controller and Dyno (and installing the EBC and Wideband gauges in the A-pillar).
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Old 10-04-2013, 05:13 PM   #20
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OK, I pick up the car first thing in the morning tomorrow. Alex reports some final touch-ups required in the tuning. Sounds like the BAP really forces a rich mix at 3000+ RPM, and he is trying to tune in some better balance. Better than running lean, but feels he can do better. Baseline wastegate was 6.5 psi. Currently pulling 608 RWHP at 7psi.

Otherwise, Alex said he was loving the car and did not want to give it back after smoking the tires at speed in 3rd gear yesterday. Feels like Xmas Eve...

So far, the tally on "unexpected glitches on the kit install" include:

- Exhaust linkage shortage - required a custom fab extension
- Relocation of the Oil pump - 2013 Power Steering module was relocated to kit's intended location
- Taking longer to tune than expected

Pictures and video tomorrow!
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Old 10-04-2013, 05:50 PM   #21
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Strange on the exhaust piece since they are all done up on a jig and the 10+ other kits had no issues. The pipe butts up to the x-pipe and you use the factory band clamp thing. It isn't a slip fit so if they thought it was they might have though it was too short. The factory band just slides over each pipe and goes on fine. Either way, strange. The PS pump stuff has been resolved. All the other kits have been 2010-2012s without the EPS so that was a snag but all fixed.

Turn it up to 9-10psi and make 700+
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Old 10-04-2013, 06:25 PM   #22
HarryNW
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I added the AEM Tru-boost EBC and had Alex target 650 range, so I am guessing he will bring it up to 8 or so to make 650. Will run it there for a while. Interesting about the exhaust - will pass it along. The PS glitch was not a problem, just had to identify an appropriate alternate location - no hard fittings there, so flexible on location.
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Old 10-04-2013, 06:30 PM   #23
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You will love it. 650rwhp and a ton of torque is one hell of a fun street car.
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Old 10-04-2013, 06:51 PM   #24
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Sorry about the exhaust issue. I asked our welder and he said he was aware of an issue that could have caused the driver side pipe to be about a inch too short. He thought he caught and fixed them but clearly missed one. Not an issue anymore. We've shipped several since that bolted right on. PM me how much it cost to fix and we'll cover it. Sorry for the inconvenience.

Good power though
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Old 10-05-2013, 06:05 PM   #25
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Here comes another one...giddy up!
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Old 10-05-2013, 06:05 PM   #26
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Sorry about the exhaust issue. I asked our welder and he said he was aware of an issue that could have caused the driver side pipe to be about a inch too short. He thought he caught and fixed them but clearly missed one. Not an issue anymore. We've shipped several since that bolted right on. PM me how much it cost to fix and we'll cover it. Sorry for the inconvenience.

Good power though
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Old 10-07-2013, 12:18 AM   #27
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OK, I am hesitant to draw any hard conclusions today - got it back yesterday and there are some outstanding issues and some very unexpected behaviors, so I will be discussing further with Alex this Tuesday (their work week is Tue-Sat).

First off, the car dyno'd (w/EBC OFF) at 608RWHP. The acceleration is incredible and I clearly have to be very careful with throttle - twice today in 3rd gear at around 50-60mph I was a little heavy on throttle and started cutting loose on the rear end.

First bad news was that the EBC was not functioning. They suspect the control solenoid and have ordered a new one. Basically, Alex said the wastegate psi was at roughly 6.5, then any attempts to increase boost via the EBC had no effect. Alex and team have apparently installed many of these (they even carry them in stock), so I am going to take that at face value. Another related artifact is that the EBC gauge is reporting extremely high boost values, in the OFF setting. (See below video). At idle, the EBC (bottom gauge) is reading 12.2, then at sustained/steady 2K RPM it is reading >20psi...? WTF is that? At idle until 00:18, then held steady at 2K RPM.

Second issue is that he reported issues with tuning down the rich mix, especially at high RPM ranges. After driving the car, I have noticed what I think is VERY bizarre readings on the AEM Air/Fuel gauge - the gauge readings fluctuate wildly. Even at idle, I know to expect some amount of fluctuation (e.g. on the order of a few tenths), but bouncing from 13-18 at idle? Same exact thing when holding at 2K RPM, 3K, 4K. (Again, see below video, A/F gauge is top gauge).



This is also readily experienced while driving. Under acceleration, the engine is smooth and delivers incredible power, but attempting to maintain any constant RPM, regardless of gear, results in a ton of trailer-hitching (jerking).

The exhaust sounds mean (with the new Stage 2C cam it is fairly lopey), but I am spewing gas. Last two times I sat and idled for 2-3 minutes and turned off the car and REMOVED the key, the car continued running for another 10-20 seconds. (See second video).



Any thoughts?
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Old 10-07-2013, 10:06 AM   #28
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the injectors with the kit are large but should be fine. Running with the key out sounds like some wiring problems or that much excessive fuel but it should still be cutting the coils.

Most of the problems may be related to your EBC solenoid, I will tell you during my install I tried grounding off the block and was getting some fluctuation on my gauges ( was my fault i grounded to valave cover which has gasket didnt even think about it ). I regrounded to the welded bolt on the driver side fenderwell. Man with the troubles you have im surprised they even let you take the car. My afr at idle stays within + to - 1 roughly but I didnt cam my car.

I would wait till they swap out the ebc and go from there. It sounds like it will need more tuning after. You could have them bypass the ebc solenoid for now which would be very easy and see how the car behaves.

I also was around 6.5 lbs of boost off the springs then setup the ebc at a 30% and 40% duty cycle which gave me a 6.5 and 8 psi for a and b.

The surging and all is related to the boost fluctuation and fuel issues it sounds like.

Also double check the vacuum lines. Do you know what size vacuum lines were used and where they tee'd all of them into?
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Old 10-07-2013, 10:58 AM   #29
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That's all tune and boost control plumbing or setup issues. Nothing to do with the kit. Call Kevin if they can't figure it out.
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Old 10-07-2013, 01:43 PM   #30
HarryNW
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That's all tune and boost control plumbing or setup issues. Nothing to do with the kit. Call Kevin if they can't figure it out.
Given the incredible hammer that hits my chest when I hit the throttle, I agree this is not a kit issue ;-) I am essentially going to baby the car until I can get it back to Alex.
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Old 10-08-2013, 05:43 PM   #31
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Good news. Alex was able to synch up with Kevin and identified what I will refer to as "communication gaps" on some hardware and tune requirements. Combined with this being Alex's first time doing this TT kit and we get a few oversights. It will be back in the shop shortly to correct the issues.
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Old 10-28-2013, 04:32 PM   #32
HarryNW
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UPDATE: Alex and team had the car for a little over a week while I was out of town. I have not talked with Alex long enough to get the gory details on what he did in terms of tune mods, but the EBC solenoid replacement fixed the EBC issue and it has smoothed out the application of boost and seems to be working properly.

Here is the before/after dyno graph:

Name:  Dyno1.jpg
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Any thoughts on some of the early variations between 2,000 to 3,200 RPM? And same above 4,600?

I picked up the car Sunday morning, so in the last 24 hours of driving, I can report that power is there and I am very impressed with the car's drivetrain in terms of pushing power to the wheels - I can disable traction control and persist a burnout all the way through 4th gear and have to fight very little to keep on a line.

The only thing that is still problematic is the high degree of trailer hitching at constant RPMs. This problem was greatly reduced with Alex's work in the last week, but still painfully present, to the extent that I spend most of my time clutching/coasting whenever possible to avoid attempting to maintain a constant speed. Gas mileage is pretty sick - under 8MPG - I was definitely hammering it a few times, and will try to see what Daily Driving conditions indicate, but seems like a huge drop. Not really concerned about MPG yet, more focused on the hitching issue - just thought it should be mentioned.

Idle seems to vary quite a bit. What I would consider "good" idle sounds great - low RPM (at around 400-600), loping, sounds mean. But, it fluctuates throughout the day and will bounce from the "good" idle to odd ranges like 900-1,500 for minutes at a time when sitting at a light. e.g. I will sit at a light and it will idle "good", then 10 minutes later sitting at another light it will idle at over 1,000 for the entire cycle of 1-2 minutes.

I am considering reaching out to one or more of the builders here with some logging to see if you can identify anything interesting/obvious. I am assuming I should provide logging in conditions while the trailer hitching is occurring, but anything else I should log? Anything specific in terms of what to log or is it simply "log everything"? I can log easily enough via the Torque app and my OBD2 bluetooth, and I assume it can log all the pertinent info...

Bottom line: Happy with the incredible power, and fun to drive aggressively, but painful to drive under normal DD.

Any feedback?
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Old 10-28-2013, 04:41 PM   #33
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Idle/etc is all the tune. That cam should have good idle. As for the trailer hitching, that is common with larger cams and most of it should be able to be tuned out. What RPM/etc does it happen? I hope people explained that cams have trade offs like that, which is why I suggest stock or baby cams on FI daily driver applications. Stock cam could have easily maxed out the motor/drivetrain and made 800rwhp with no issues. Just turn the boost up.

Log maf, map, timing, o2 sensors, rpm, tps, etc.
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Old 10-28-2013, 05:06 PM   #34
HarryNW
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Idle/etc is all the tune. That cam should have good idle. As for the trailer hitching, that is common with larger cams and most of it should be able to be tuned out. What RPM/etc does it happen?
At just about any RPM that I try to maintain a consistent RPM/throttle. I have not tried to maintain RPM over 4,000 but could try just for grins, but just think of normal traffic on streets and highway - trying to maintain any constant 20/30/35/45/55/65 MPH, in various gears, all the same hitching. Ironically, it is a LN Stage 2C cam that I believe Kevin recommended to Alex, so I tend to agree that it must be tune.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Unreal View Post
Stock cam could have easily maxed out the motor/drivetrain and made 800rwhp with no issues. Just turn the boost up.
Yep, I specifically limited boost to stay "down" in the 600's to save on the drivetrain. Will increase once I begin upgrading the drivetrain...

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Log maf, map, timing, o2 sensors, rpm, tps, etc.
Thanks. I am simply going to post the logs as a link in this thread once I log.
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