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Camaro Z/28 Forum - Z/28 Specific Topics Discussions related to the 5th gen Camaro Z/28 model

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Old 10-17-2013, 01:03 PM   #326
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Originally Posted by Angrybird 12 View Post
Well direct apples to apples would also have to be done at the same time by the same driver. Same track conditions, temperature and humidity play a big part too.
I'd say those other items are small potatos compared to a wet track...
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Old 10-17-2013, 01:06 PM   #327
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Ok, we have the time it ran. We also have an idea of when the first units will be delivered. With that in mind, when do we think we will have pricing and allocation information? Can we use the ZL1 timeline? For those who bought their ZL1 when it was first announced, how long did it take once the "ring" times were announced to when the price and allocation information became public.
I wouldn't expect prices for a while. Probably within a month of the first Z/28 rolling off the line.
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Old 10-17-2013, 01:06 PM   #328
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I'd say those other items are small potatos compared to a wet track...
temp is probably a big one. although im not sure how hot it gets out there.
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Old 10-17-2013, 01:07 PM   #329
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Originally Posted by Angrybird 12 View Post
Well direct apples to apples would also have to be done at the same time by the same driver. Same track conditions, temperature and humidity play a big part too.
Very true, but its simply not possible to recreate exact track conditions. However, it is possible to use the calendar, weather forecast and weather radar to maximize your chances at a dry lap.
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Old 10-17-2013, 01:13 PM   #330
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Trofeo information from the Pirelli website.

Designed for racetrack driving on dry asphalt.

Developed to provide even greater performance - on the occasion of Track Days - when fitted to the most powerful vehicles such as Porsche, Ferrari, BMW, Lamborghini, including the MY2012. With P Zero™ Trofeo R you can fully appreciate the performance of extreme vehicles in complete safety, especially on the track.

In extreme conditions, typical of racetrack driving, it reacts with precision to commands. On dry asphalt, even in the most demanding sessions it ensures high levels of grip and constant trajectories. P Zero™ Trofeo R is not recommended for use in very wet track conditions. Specific for racetrack driving, it is approved for road use, enabling travel to the track. In the event of very wet asphalt, with the risk of aquaplaning, prudent driving at reduced speed is recommended.

http://www.pirelli.com/tyre/ww/en/ca..._trofeo_r.html

Not stated on the website, just like the GYs on the ZL1 and 1LE, tire grip is reduced by cooler temperatures. They ran on a cool damp then wet track. Adam Dean and the Z/28 put down one hellofa lap.
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Old 10-17-2013, 01:14 PM   #331
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I'd say those other items are small potatos compared to a wet track...
I was just saying for a direct apples to apples comparison. Driver ability can also have a big influence.
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Old 10-17-2013, 01:27 PM   #332
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I was just saying for a direct apples to apples comparison. Driver ability can also have a big influence.
I would think the driver most familiar with each car will get the most out of that car. If it was a blind test by the same driver who had never driven any of the cars before, then perhaps that would be equal. That sounds more like what would happen with a magazine test or comparison...

....But not for the ring. The seat time each driver has with each car as part of the test team is probably off the charts and produces the best results possible.
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Old 10-17-2013, 01:37 PM   #333
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Trofeo information from the Pirelli website.

Designed for racetrack driving on dry asphalt.

Developed to provide even greater performance - on the occasion of Track Days - when fitted to the most powerful vehicles such as Porsche, Ferrari, BMW, Lamborghini, including the MY2012. With P Zero™ Trofeo R you can fully appreciate the performance of extreme vehicles in complete safety, especially on the track.

In extreme conditions, typical of racetrack driving, it reacts with precision to commands. On dry asphalt, even in the most demanding sessions it ensures high levels of grip and constant trajectories. P Zero™ Trofeo R is not recommended for use in very wet track conditions. Specific for racetrack driving, it is approved for road use, enabling travel to the track. In the event of very wet asphalt, with the risk of aquaplaning, prudent driving at reduced speed is recommended.

http://www.pirelli.com/tyre/ww/en/ca..._trofeo_r.html

Not stated on the website, just like the GYs on the ZL1 and 1LE, tire grip is reduced by cooler temperatures. They ran on a cool damp then wet track. Adam Dean and the Z/28 put down one hellofa lap.
Good info...Thanks Pete....
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Old 10-17-2013, 02:08 PM   #334
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Originally Posted by JusticePete View Post
Trofeo information from the Pirelli website.

Designed for racetrack driving on dry asphalt.

...

Not stated on the website, just like the GYs on the ZL1 and 1LE, tire grip is reduced by cooler temperatures. They ran on a cool damp then wet track. Adam Dean and the Z/28 put down one hellofa lap.
That’s a very important point. Dry tires on a wet/damp track are always a handful. Knowing the tires he was on I was holding my breath as he went through the kink under the bridge at 150+ mph. Very, very big attachments!
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Old 10-17-2013, 02:44 PM   #335
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Trofeo, Michelin Pilot Sport Cup and Pirelli Corsa System all have minimal tread depth when new (5/32" or 6/32") so there are not large channels to allow the water to escape. Some hard laps and you're down to 2/32". They are actually not bad in the "moist", having predictable break-away qualities, but treacherous in "wet" (easy hydroplaning) and sure as hell suicidal around anything frozen :-)
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Old 10-17-2013, 02:48 PM   #336
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I think very few of you who are not impressed by the time have never driven on a wet race track. The level of grip on a wet track is almost non-existent. I for one was impressed, and if ya'll would bother to read the press release, GM predicted up to 6 sec a lap faster if all were dry. I think that may have been conservative prediction.

On a side note, I can't believe a Mustang guy has to defend a Camaro to a Camaro site...
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Old 10-17-2013, 03:52 PM   #337
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Wow! You made a really great point there /sarc Quad Turbo $1MM car of which 300 were made.

Yes, exactly, ultimate poseur car, how many will you see on track at your local HPDE?

Why don't you research the Z/28's cd? And reply back discussing the engineering balances of cd with gearing and top speed?

You want to actually contribute to the discussion in a meaningful way don't you?

So much easier to reply as you did than actually consider the OP's question and examine it in reality and not just quote a number you read in a magazine.
Reno right? Cactus plants there right? Did you sit on one? My point simply being that any measure of performance is valid, grip, breaking, acceleration, top speed, and trying to dismiss any as irrelevant to defend one car over the other is simple justification...nothing more. Take a chill pill bud, we're all car fans here.
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Old 10-17-2013, 03:54 PM   #338
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Notice: no rear view mirror.
Says alot about the focus and mindset they had.
Says more about the view they wanted to capture with the video.
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Old 10-17-2013, 03:57 PM   #339
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I look at it this way, in the top 54 all time best laps, surrounded by cars costing well over 100 k are 2 Camaros. A few Vettes, ZR1s and Z06s. Pretty damn good for Chevy and both Camaros
Agreed, that's a healthy way to look at this. Glad to see North American cars of any kind represented so well. Nice work GM.
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Old 10-17-2013, 03:59 PM   #340
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I think very few of you who are not impressed by the time have never driven on a wet race track. The level of grip on a wet track is almost non-existent. I for one was impressed, and if ya'll would bother to read the press release, GM predicted up to 6 sec a lap faster if all were dry. I think that may have been conservative prediction.

On a side note, I can't believe a Mustang guy has to defend a Camaro to a Camaro site...
It's the curse of the Kona Blue Boss owners. We just see the best in everything. How else could we have ended up with white roofed cars with a black spoiler?
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Old 10-17-2013, 04:20 PM   #341
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It's the curse of the Kona Blue Boss owners. We just see the best in everything. How else could we have ended up with white roofed cars with a black spoiler?
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Old 10-17-2013, 04:52 PM   #342
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Says more about the view they wanted to capture with the video.
Says more about the view the driver wants coming on a blind right hand uphill corner... Camaro gripe #1: Visibility out front, side, rear and above!
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Old 10-17-2013, 05:11 PM   #343
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Of all the Mustang guys, where's Norm?...lol...
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Old 10-17-2013, 05:18 PM   #344
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Of all the Mustang guys, where's Norm?...lol...
He is sparring with "thepill" on the Mustang site. Fun reading if you have a chance to pop over there.
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Old 10-17-2013, 05:48 PM   #345
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who needs a radio? love that sound
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Old 10-17-2013, 05:56 PM   #346
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He is sparring with "thepill" on the Mustang site. Fun reading if you have a chance to pop over there.
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Old 10-17-2013, 06:13 PM   #347
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http://www.mustang6g.com/forums/showthread.php?t=705

I think that's the one...
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Old 10-17-2013, 06:17 PM   #348
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Reno right? Cactus plants there right? Did you sit on one? My point simply being that any measure of performance is valid, grip, breaking, acceleration, top speed, and trying to dismiss any as irrelevant to defend one car over the other is simple justification...nothing more. Take a chill pill bud, we're all car fans here.
OP was not able to comprehend indicated 160mph in video, I replied with one reason why the indicated speed was what it was.

A Veyron's top speed (your reply) is not relevant to the conversation considering the context of the car (Z/28) being discussed. Gearing specifically for track use combined with a very high coefficient of drag (which the Z/28 has) results in lower top speeds than most here would be used to reading in magazines.

99% of HPDE trackers will never see 160mph on a road course, maybe 140mph depending on the track and driving skill. So anything over 150mph is worth nothing other than mental masturbation for readers of car magazines.

It is far more important to be in the powerband when accelerating out of a wide variety of corners than to theoretically attain a certain top speed.

As a car fan you know the Z/28 cd is .39 right? You know that is the same as a Chevy Tahoe right? So why didn't you post that (educational/useful) instead of posting that a Veyron has a high top speed?

Want an easy increase in top speed to pose and impress your pals? Just strip all the downforce creating aero and reduce the cd. You know there is no free lunch right?

People who think top speed is relevant to this car simply chose not to understand it's purpose. The lack of comprehension gets tedious after 7 months, hence the cactus plant reactions. It's ok to raise the level of the discussion, I welcome you to do so (again).

I'm not "defending" the Z/28 I'm pointing out the reality of why the OP saw 160mph on the 'Ring lap.
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Old 10-17-2013, 06:19 PM   #349
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Yep, go to page 12. It is hilarious. BaylorCamaro and Norm are putting up valiant resistance but ThePill is just losing his mind. If the Z/28 actually finds a sanctioning body that will allow it to run we might need to send someone to take all the sharp object out of ThePill's house. :-)
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Old 10-17-2013, 06:26 PM   #350
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Yep, go to page 12. It is hilarious. BaylorCamaro and Norm are putting up valiant resistance but ThePill is just losing his mind. If the Z/28 actually finds a sanctioning body that will allow it to run we might need to send someone to take all the sharp object out of ThePill's house. :-)
lol...so how many pills does THE PILL takes per hour?
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