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Old 10-21-2013, 11:48 AM   #71
mkorgan

 
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Originally Posted by CobraBall View Post
More than likely, someone sophisticated enough to appreciate a Z28 will be more than happy to let the ZL1 knuckledraggers duke it out illegally on the street whereas they'll exercise their car out in the proper venue that it was built for.

I also have the sinking suspicion the Z28 is going to have much more collector's value a few dozen years from now than the ZL1 will. For those of you that get off on that kind of stuff....



The hurt feelings are almost palpable. They're both cool cars, I don't understand why people feel the need to be so juvenile about it.
So, I love the Z/28 but I am now a "knuckledragger" because I own a ZL1? WTF?? To all of you who think that those of us who own ZL1's are in some way, shape, or form intimidated or upset that Chevy built the Z/28...do me a favor....GET OVER YOURSELF. I love the Z/28 and I love my ZL1. I think there are legitimate conversation that can be made as to why some things were done or the merit of one over the other in the case of a DD or only track applications but DAMN...What happen to someone expressing an opinion without being labeled a hater or knuckledragger in this case. If you do not like what this person says and want to engage him directly then PM him. Otherwise, be care throwing everyone into the same classification of ZL1 owner PLEASE!! And coming from a guy with COBRA in his user name...do you have a dog in this fight? I already know why you are cranky so move along please.
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Old 10-21-2013, 02:56 PM   #72
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Originally Posted by mkorgan View Post
So, I love the Z/28 but I am now a "knuckledragger" because I own a ZL1? WTF?? To all of you who think that those of us who own ZL1's are in some way, shape, or form intimidated or upset that Chevy built the Z/28...do me a favor....GET OVER YOURSELF. I love the Z/28 and I love my ZL1. I think there are legitimate conversation that can be made as to why some things were done or the merit of one over the other in the case of a DD or only track applications but DAMN...What happen to someone expressing an opinion without being labeled a hater or knuckledragger in this case. If you do not like what this person says and want to engage him directly then PM him. Otherwise, be care throwing everyone into the same classification of ZL1 owner PLEASE!! And coming from a guy with COBRA in his user name...do you have a dog in this fight? I already know why you are cranky so move along please.
I think OP was orienting his comments towards the "NightmareZL1" posters of the world. I was agreeing with the comments in that context.

If you own a ZL1 and appreciate the Z/28 for what it is, then you are obviously among the sophisticated :-)

I like both cars for what they offer and their mission in life. As a high-performance street GT, the ZL1 is an incredible package, I've never said a negative comment about it.

PS- posters talking about duking it out at stoplights (light to light) are being nicely referred to as a "knuckledragger". If all a person can do is brag about pressing the gas pedal in a straight line, that is pretty pathetic. I'd invite them to visit their local road-course and enter into a Time-Trial if they think they have skills aside from posting smack. Lap times talk, BS walks.
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Old 10-21-2013, 03:08 PM   #73
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I would like to see the ZL1 do the Ring lapping with the same ceramic carbon brakes as the Z/28.
this would make no time difference on these "hero laps".
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Old 10-21-2013, 05:54 PM   #74
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this would make no time difference on these "hero laps".
You are basing this on actual projected times or just guessing? The post was supposed to have read tires and brakes. I was too lazy to change it after replies started in. We both know that the lap time would improve slightly with the addition of those two items. No physical way to beat the Z/28 time but improve on the original ZL1 time.
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Old 10-21-2013, 06:17 PM   #75
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You are basing this on actual projected times or just guessing? The post was supposed to have read tires and brakes. I was too lazy to change it after replies started in. We both know that the lap time would improve slightly with the addition of those two items. No physical way to beat the Z/28 time but improve on the original ZL1 time.
The ceramics, contrary to popularly held notions, don't offer meaningfully different stopping distances compared to iron brakes. Stopping distance, and stopping g-force, is primarily a function of the tires.

Once again, the benefits of carbon ceramic rotors is:

*No warping
*No fade (unless you are mercilessly abusing them)
*Consistent pedal pressure and feel from first lap to the last lap.
*Reduced unsprung weight and rotating mass primarily benefiting handling feel, but also responsiveness to accelerating/braking (rotational responsiveness).

So in this example, ZL1 vs Z/28 I'd agree with Backtotintops. The ZL1 by all accounts has stout durable brakes to begin with. As opposed to, let's say, a Mustang which has terrible (horrible, dreadful, pick the adjective) brakes OE. Now...a Mustang with CCB vs Iron rotors, that would make a huge difference on lap time because the stock brakes would quickly fade and the driver would have to compensate by running slower laps.

PS- Calipers are the same for an iron vs CCB brake system, only the hat/friction disc is different.

My reply is based on many years experience running carbon/ceramic or carbon/silicon/carbide brakes on track, and having installed these systems myself.
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Old 10-21-2013, 06:19 PM   #76
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Originally Posted by ZL1-V View Post
You are basing this on actual projected times or just guessing? The post was supposed to have read tires and brakes. I was too lazy to change it after replies started in. We both know that the lap time would improve slightly with the addition of those two items. No physical way to beat the Z/28 time but improve on the original ZL1 time.
no just basing this on the difference of carbon ceramic vs steel on an 8 min run....there is a small advantage to unsprung weight in the rotors and wheels and of course tires my friend.

...but I think "We both" do NOT know what you mean by "No physical way to beat the Z/28 time"...please explain. I think a 70 degree dry track surface might be a start.

Why all the speculative adding in of all this stuff to the ZL1? You have a great car...enjoy it. I'm not even sure you can swap in the multimatics because I thought I read somewhere the pick up points were altered...might be wrong though.
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Old 10-22-2013, 01:40 AM   #77
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Originally Posted by backtotintops View Post
no just basing this on the difference of carbon ceramic vs steel on an 8 min run....there is a small advantage to unsprung weight in the rotors and wheels and of course tires my friend.

...but I think "We both" do NOT know what you mean by "No physical way to beat the Z/28 time"...please explain. I think a 70 degree dry track surface might be a start.

Why all the speculative adding in of all this stuff to the ZL1? You have a great car...enjoy it. I'm not even sure you can swap in the multimatics because I thought I read somewhere the pick up points were altered...might be wrong though.

I am enjoying my ZL1 and what I was attempting to say in an ass backwards way is that the Z/28 is lighter so it is going to be able to lap the Nurburgring quicker. I personally would just like to have as many choices as possible as far as choices of brake and tire choices for my ZL1.
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Old 10-22-2013, 01:50 AM   #78
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Originally Posted by Zfatuated View Post
The ceramics, contrary to popularly held notions, don't offer meaningfully different stopping distances compared to iron brakes. Stopping distance, and stopping g-force, is primarily a function of the tires.

Once again, the benefits of carbon ceramic rotors is:

*No warping
*No fade (unless you are mercilessly abusing them)
*Consistent pedal pressure and feel from first lap to the last lap.
*Reduced unsprung weight and rotating mass primarily benefiting handling feel, but also responsiveness to accelerating/braking (rotational responsiveness).

So in this example, ZL1 vs Z/28 I'd agree with Backtotintops. The ZL1 by all accounts has stout durable brakes to begin with. As opposed to, let's say, a Mustang which has terrible (horrible, dreadful, pick the adjective) brakes OE. Now...a Mustang with CCB vs Iron rotors, that would make a huge difference on lap time because the stock brakes would quickly fade and the driver would have to compensate by running slower laps.

PS- Calipers are the same for an iron vs CCB brake system, only the hat/friction disc is different.

My reply is based on many years experience running carbon/ceramic or carbon/silicon/carbide brakes on track, and having installed these systems myself.


Thanks for the reply. I was referencing them as being less prone to fade as you stated in your reply. Yes, I'm familiar with carbon ceramic and full carbon brake systems from having been invited into the MotoGP pits on several occasions. These are a picture I shot of the Tech 3 Yamaha rotors before install. Since you are familiar with the different systems, what do you think of these? The rotors and shocks alone are more costly than a Z/28.

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Old 10-22-2013, 09:16 AM   #79
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Originally Posted by ZL1-V View Post
Thanks for the reply. I was referencing them as being less prone to fade as you stated in your reply. Yes, I'm familiar with carbon ceramic and full carbon brake systems from having been invited into the MotoGP pits on several occasions. These are a picture I shot of the Tech 3 Yamaha rotors before install. Since you are familiar with the different systems, what do you think of these? The rotors and shocks alone are more costly than a Z/28.

I'd love to see the pic, but it's not in the post. Always up for some good gearhead pron.
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Old 10-22-2013, 01:03 PM   #80
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Strange I can see it in your reply? They are expensive, beautiful and super light.

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Old 10-22-2013, 01:25 PM   #81
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Strange I can see it in your reply? They are expensive, beautiful and super light.
Blocked by AdBlock, had to disable to see the pic, cool stuff!
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Old 10-22-2013, 01:46 PM   #82
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Originally Posted by Zfatuated View Post
The ceramics, contrary to popularly held notions, don't offer meaningfully different stopping distances compared to iron brakes. Stopping distance, and stopping g-force, is primarily a function of the tires.

Once again, the benefits of carbon ceramic rotors is:

*No warping
*No fade (unless you are mercilessly abusing them)
*Consistent pedal pressure and feel from first lap to the last lap.
*Reduced unsprung weight and rotating mass primarily benefiting handling feel, but also responsiveness to accelerating/braking (rotational responsiveness).

So in this example, ZL1 vs Z/28 I'd agree with Backtotintops. The ZL1 by all accounts has stout durable brakes to begin with. As opposed to, let's say, a Mustang which has terrible (horrible, dreadful, pick the adjective) brakes OE. Now...a Mustang with CCB vs Iron rotors, that would make a huge difference on lap time because the stock brakes would quickly fade and the driver would have to compensate by running slower laps.

PS- Calipers are the same for an iron vs CCB brake system, only the hat/friction disc is different.

My reply is based on many years experience running carbon/ceramic or carbon/silicon/carbide brakes on track, and having installed these systems myself.

So how do these CCB stand up to daily driving?

If I get a Z/28 im driving the crap out of it street and track (and a bonus the local road course is 5 min from my work desk)

My anus puckers a little at seeing 4k for rotors. But then i also heard from ZR1 guys that these brakes if not abused will last the life of the car. Just takes some burnishing every so many miles.
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Old 10-22-2013, 05:11 PM   #83
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So how do these CCB stand up to daily driving?

If I get a Z/28 im driving the crap out of it street and track (and a bonus the local road course is 5 min from my work desk)

My anus puckers a little at seeing 4k for rotors. But then i also heard from ZR1 guys that these brakes if not abused will last the life of the car. Just takes some burnishing every so many miles.
As I noted on a different post here, the ceramic rotors will last "forever" on a street only driven car. Pads wear identical to iron rotor system. They work fine either hot or cold, but tend to give a scare on first brake application upon getting soaking wet (car wash).

I did forget that ceramic brakes usually have about 90% less black brake dust on wheels. That is a happy thing.

4k for a set of ceramic rotors is...dirt cheap. You are in another world of performance and the cost is commensurate. Carbon/Silicon/Carbide rotors which perform even better in any measure to ceramics run ~18k-21k a set and can go from car to car to car. Porsche PCCB rotors run $18k a set new and are inferior to the GM/Brembo rotors. They are both Brembo but two different methods of construction.
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Old 10-23-2013, 09:08 AM   #84
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big thanks
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