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Old 10-31-2013, 12:25 PM   #101
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Originally Posted by newmoon View Post
I'm not picking on the ZL1 given the choice I'd own a ZL1 automatic car, but to make blanket statements that the 500 is not in the same class as the ZL1 is ridiculous.
I'm not trying to incite a flame fest, but it's rather interesting how the goal posts move with these threads.

When everyone thought the ZL1 was the faster car it was:

"The GT500 is a slow pile"

Now, that something that could be contradictory to that appears and it's:

"Oh, well the GT500 has a professional driver and the ZL1 was driven by a n00b"

and

"'ring times don't matter, I'll never drive on the 'ring"

Really? You don't think GM was using a professional driver and sticky tires too?

However, I'm not particularly convinced. I'm curious as to the source of this video, what was done, and who was driving. I'm not saying it's not legit, but I'd like to know more about the video. Is it really from Ford?

Quote:
Shhhhhhhhh, you are not supposed to mention this in the forum. Is there an issue with all the 500s brakes or just this particular car, I imagine it's very possible it is a design issue, and Ford states to change out the fluid prior to heavy track use. The main point is prior to the brake fade the 500 was indeed faster which most claim in this forum that this is not possible. In the above video I posted I believe both drivers knew their way around the track. The problem was the 500 was clearly faster. Maybe the owner had done the suggested fluid change which corrected the brake fade issues?
Truth.

If you're going to track any car, a fluid swap and pad change is pretty standard across the board. I'm not sure that's a knock against the GT500 when you should be doing that anyway.
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Old 10-31-2013, 12:35 PM   #102
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Originally Posted by newmoon View Post
Shhhhhhhhh, you are not supposed to mention this in the forum. Is there an issue with all the 500s brakes or just this particular car, I imagine it's very possible it is a design issue, and Ford states to change out the fluid prior to heavy track use. The main point is prior to the brake fade the 500 was indeed faster which most claim in this forum that this is not possible. In the above video I posted I believe both drivers knew their way around the track. The problem was the 500 was clearly faster. Maybe the owner had done the suggested fluid change which corrected the brake fade issues?

I'm not picking on the ZL1 given the choice I'd own a ZL1 automatic car, but to make blanket statements that the 500 is not in the same class as the ZL1 is ridiculous.
My comments are from Motor Trend. They used the same driver in both cars, both stock with nothing done. Randy Pobst was the driver and they did street and track comparisons. Yes the Shelby is faster on the dragstrip and on a road course, but only for a short amount of time. It is Never consistent as the ZL1 is crazy consistent. But it's still just a matter of preference, some choose the Shelby other the ZL1. What's the big deal?

Personally I'd love to be able to do some of the stuff with this car that its capable of doing. But I usually chicken out! Although I have Mastered the No-Lift-Shifting which is crazy fun fun fun! Just wish I could do the nannies thing and keep it to the floor.

Watch Tanner Faust do some runs with the new Stingray, and the comparison was to determine which one was faster, using the PTM system or turning everything off. Love to have the nerve he has, he was all out and it was very very close. But one one stretch of the nasty Detroit roads it was really really bumpy and the nannies kicked in slowing him down because the road surface didn't allow constant contact. So the nannies went crazy. But it was really close and he is a pro driver. But just once, well I'll start with once, I'd love to be able to keep it floored without panicking.


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Old 10-31-2013, 12:44 PM   #103
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Originally Posted by VRYALT3R3D View Post
The GT500 is faster. deal with it.

note: i dont own a gt500
No worries, I didn't need your opinion. BTW, you're only proving my point...

I wouldn't be surprised if the GT500 was very competitive with the ZL1, particularly on a circuit that catered to its straight line speed advantage. On a course where you can't spend a lot of time at WOT, I still would expect the ZL1 to be quicker. They're both real, real fast cars, just with different strengths.
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Old 10-31-2013, 01:38 PM   #104
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In my opinion, any "ring" time comparison, within say, 10 - 15 seconds, makes the cars equal. That time can be made up or lost with a driver change.
Agreed but a driver with intimate and extended time on that track would be very consistent.

If your point is to put me behind the wheel you would lose a minute and a half.......or more lol
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Old 10-31-2013, 02:11 PM   #105
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Welcome back, sir. Always good to have an articulate, engineering-centric person on this site, regardless of personal preferences.

1) In that regard, and considering your ability to cut through media-speak and get directly to the salient points, I'd be interested in your assessment of the Z/28. Care to share?

Also, as was mentioned on your favored site sometime back by our mutual friend (the one so concerned currently about the Z/28's non-conformity to sanctioning bodies' rules), wasn't a Blue GT 500 timed by his German-based friends running "mid-7:40s" while Big Red (the winglet-wearing car you displayed here) equipped with a full measure of the FRPP catalog timed running "into the 7:30's"?

2) So, to what standard was Sid's video game star equipped and prepared? Blue-level, or Red-line? Or is that information known, and shareable?

Once again, welcome back, and thank you for your reasoned responses.
Thanks for the kind words Joe.

My assessment of the Z/28? Color me very impressed with what GM was able to do. The engine is a work of art, the brakes are to behold, and the no-frills weight reduction is something I've been begging for for years - in a plain Jane Mustang of course. I considered one but that's as far as I went. I have nothing but good things to say about it.

I'm off to SEMA next week and I'll see what I can dig up about the blue car that was in Sid's video.

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Old 10-31-2013, 02:15 PM   #106
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Originally Posted by Number 3 View Post
Agreed but a driver with intimate and extended time on that track would be very consistent.

If your point is to put me behind the wheel you would lose a minute and a half.......or more lol
put me behind the wheel and Id still be driving the track lol
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Old 10-31-2013, 02:21 PM   #107
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My guess is that they changed the brake fluid to DOT 4 just like the owners manual suggests to do when racing, just like I'm sure they did the 1,500 mile break-in and diff service on the ZL1 as per the owners manual before sending it on the track.

In independent testing DOT 4 fluid has been proven to cure the GT500's brake fade issues.
This^
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Old 10-31-2013, 02:24 PM   #108
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Originally Posted by Tob View Post
Thanks for the kind words Joe.

My assessment of the Z/28? Color me very impressed with what GM was able to do. The engine is a work of art, the brakes are to behold, and the no-frills weight reduction is something I've been begging for for years - in a plain Jane Mustang of course. I considered one but that's as far as I went. I have nothing but good things to say about it.

I'm off to SEMA next week and I'll see what I can dig up about the blue car that was in Sid's video.

Tob

Coletti did somethings very right. The Cobra R program was one of those things. It's a program Hameedi really needs to look into reviving.
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Old 10-31-2013, 03:00 PM   #109
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Who cares what manufactures and magazines claim for times when it comes down to it, it is all about the driver is such close times like these. Car X may have more horsepower and better times driven by a professional than car Y but no two drivers are equal what good is any amount of horsepower if the driver doesnt know how to race it.
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Old 10-31-2013, 03:50 PM   #110
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Waaaaaaaaaaaaaaaay over thinking it...
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Old 10-31-2013, 04:26 PM   #111
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Maybe they don't release them because they have never had anything fast enough lol.
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Old 10-31-2013, 05:11 PM   #112
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Car company's live through marketing. Ford did an hour long infomercial on the Boss as it was being released citing its track prowess. If ANY company has a means to positively market their product they'll do it.

Bottom line that manufactured write up and video is pure Koolaid!
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Old 10-31-2013, 05:28 PM   #113
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I'd much prefer that it was a simple matter of checking the engine I wanted, matched with the suspension/brakes. A new age LX, if you will. I don't want or need somebody's name plastered all over the car. Just a fresh coat of paint, stripped - options wise, with a gnarly engine and suspension. No nomenclature would be a nice way of saying to the dealer "I really don't need you to tack on your ridiculous ADM onto the car. This is just a boring no option car that nobody but me would ever want."

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Old 10-31-2013, 06:30 PM   #114
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http://www.svtperformance.com/forums...rburgring.html

Here is the link with all of the information. One thing that I observed if you watch the overlay videos closely you can see the ZL1 get out ahead of the GT500 in the curvy sections of the track while the GT500 gets ahead of the ZL1 in the strait sections of the track. That is exactly what I expected. The GT500 had the big advantage coming out of the long strait which they both entered at nearly the exact same time.
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Old 10-31-2013, 06:36 PM   #115
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Originally Posted by Dropspeed View Post
Let's just say the video is accurate and it is a click faster at the ring (I doubt it but). The real world for the majority of us is the good ole US of A. The GT500 has not beat a single Zl1 on a track in the US in any head to head competition. Either way, good for them and good for us.
That's not entirely true. If you define beating as being chosen by the authors, then you are correct. If you define beating as posting better lap times, the GT500 did so by 0.5s at Laguna Seca by Motor Trend and by 1.3s at Streets of Willow by Inside Line. A lot of people here seem to be confusing better with faster. I would say, without question, the ZL1 is the better track car. Is it the faster track car though? That's pretty much up in the air depending on track selection and driver. Some Castrol SRF (DOT 4 is recommended for track use in the manual) in the GT500 would make endurance comparisons much more interesting.
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Old 10-31-2013, 06:37 PM   #116
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I want it all shown as in the official GM video. Let's view the g meter, also the actual location thru track layout using GPS, and a real timer not one that is "guesstimated" after the video. I am a former SVT Cobra Mustang owner This would have been published long ago by SVT if it had been real. Too much speculation on the part of the OP that had posted it initially.
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Old 10-31-2013, 07:19 PM   #117
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Originally Posted by knowitman View Post
http://www.svtperformance.com/forums...rburgring.html

Here is the link with all of the information. One thing that I observed if you watch the overlay videos closely you can see the ZL1 get out ahead of the GT500 in the curvy sections of the track while the GT500 gets ahead of the ZL1 in the strait sections of the track. That is exactly what I expected. The GT500 had the big advantage coming out of the long strait which they both entered at nearly the exact same time.
I was looking at that overlay also, the Shelby has some sick straight away speed. Makes me wonder what it would be capable of with the ZL1/Z28 tires.
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Old 10-31-2013, 07:23 PM   #118
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Even if the information provided is accurate, the GT500 is not a production vehicle, the Z28 is.
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Old 10-31-2013, 07:32 PM   #119
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Even if the information provided is accurate, the GT500 is not a production vehicle, the Z28 is.
Wrong. It's built at the Flatrock plant with the other Mustangs.
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Old 10-31-2013, 07:36 PM   #120
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...if you want to compare performance numbers, well, the GT500 retains it's title of the highest hp, worst performing car in the world.
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Old 10-31-2013, 07:44 PM   #121
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Considering the ZL1 is 3 seconds faster as per Car and Driver's Lightning Lap, I don't see how a stock GT500 would be faster on the 'Ring. Plus, the way Randy Pobst talked about the brake fade in the GT500, I don't think it would do very well on a nearly 13 mile twisty road course. I'm thinking the car wasn't stock or there was a timing error.
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Old 10-31-2013, 07:46 PM   #122
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Even if the information provided is accurate, the GT500 is not a production vehicle, the Z28 is.
Ugh, not this again. Have you been talking to aggieguy?!
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Old 10-31-2013, 07:56 PM   #123
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Even if the information provided is accurate, the GT500 is not a production vehicle, the Z28 is.
The fail is strong in this one
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Old 10-31-2013, 08:04 PM   #124
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I was looking at that overlay also, the Shelby has some sick straight away speed. Makes me wonder what it would be capable of with the ZL1/Z28 tires.
I'd like to know also. The GT500 uses the same Goodyear F1 Supercar G2's as the ZL1, just an inch narrower and the Z/28 comes with Pirelli P Zero's.
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Old 10-31-2013, 08:12 PM   #125
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I'd like to know also. The GT500 uses the same Goodyear F1 Supercar G2's as the ZL1, just an inch narrower and the Z/28 comes with Pirelli P Zero's.
P Zero Trofeo R to be exact. Very sticky DOT track tires.



Awesome tires.
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