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Old 10-30-2013, 05:53 PM   #26
litle88
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Lol yea, does he still use it? Lots has changed in the last few years with the Feds made the oil companies take out zinc and zdpp due to "cats" lifespan.
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Old 10-30-2013, 06:00 PM   #27
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Maybe Jamie can let us know
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Old 10-30-2013, 06:17 PM   #28
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I'll just ask slow hawk tomorrow.
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Old 10-30-2013, 06:17 PM   #29
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Jaime just pays and races.
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Old 10-30-2013, 07:55 PM   #30
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Quote:
Originally Posted by strych9 View Post
Excellent info! I disagree with the film strength argument made by another poster, as Mobil1 has a very high film strength rating. Zinc...could be a factor, but I would be interested to see some analyses. Several big-name performance builders use and recommend Mobil1 with their builds and installs, so it's hard to know who to believe.
Full synthetic M1 5W30 has very good film strength but poor ZDDP. The one M1 type which 2 big name shops recommend that does have good levels of ZDDP is 15W50 but it has poor film strength. So what I said was true. All the weights have either poor film strength OR poor levels of ZDDP.
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Old 10-30-2013, 08:10 PM   #31
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... I do prefer Red Line personally but it is twice the cost of Mobil1 and I also like the PF48R filters over the PF48. ...

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Old 10-30-2013, 08:10 PM   #32
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Hmmm. I'm at 67K miles and have run M1 5w30 since day one with no issues--6K since the blower install, 36K since the cam swap.
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Old 10-30-2013, 08:32 PM   #33
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That is correct. We use mobile 1 BUT only 0w-40 which has a good zinc content.

In the last few years we have seen a good amount of cam/lifter failures. All different brand cams so I rule the cam out. Most common answer was using whatever oil was on sale.
I think the cams falling apart is what causes the oil pump pressure valves to stick. I've had a mellings stick before.
So, best I could say is use the correct oil and filter, change regularly.
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Old 10-30-2013, 08:46 PM   #34
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Hmmm. I'm at 67K miles and have run M1 5w30 since day one with no issues--6K since the blower install, 36K since the cam swap.
There's 3 or 4 of you that pop into threads like these saying that you haven't had any issues with your setup, that's cool. But for every 3 or 4 of you that have had good luck, there's 5-6 that haven't. I'm not willing to take a chance with those odds.

Think about it like this: The OP was probably like you a few months ago, and popped into a thread like this and said "I'm on xx,xxx miles with my setup with no issues." And now the OP had a failure and you popped in his thread saying the same thing..... See what I did there?
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Old 10-30-2013, 09:26 PM   #35
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There's 3 or 4 of you that pop into threads like these saying that you haven't had any issues with your setup, that's cool. But for every 3 or 4 of you that have had good luck, there's 5-6 that haven't. I'm not willing to take a chance with those odds.

Think about it like this: The OP was probably like you a few months ago, and popped into a thread like this and said "I'm on xx,xxx miles with my setup with no issues." And now the OP had a failure and you popped in his thread saying the same thing..... See what I did there?
Yeah, you don't want to be that 1 guy out of 10 who pops a motor, trust me. I remember when LG or some other shop had a thread on oil and high ramp rate cams. They stated not to use the factory 5w30 M1 or any M1 for that matter. I thought wait, my shop recommends M1. Those guys on the internet must not know what they are talking about. Couple months later my engine is needing replaced or rebuilt. If a shop wants you to use M1 on a cammed motor fine, ask them if they will warranty it if there is a related issue. Chances are they are not and your on your own. Everyone who reads this thread has been warned. Use which ever oil you want at your own risk because chances are your tuner/builder wont do anything about it either way.
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Old 10-30-2013, 09:31 PM   #36
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I use Mobile 1. I add this. http://www.zddplus.com/ makes oil what it should be.
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Old 10-30-2013, 11:08 PM   #37
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That hilarious cause I cringed when I saw that too! I see you recommend RP. Did they change their setup at all? I had read a couple posts on LS1TECH that the oil was too slippery and sometimes actually caused sludge. I switched to Valvoline Synpower since VR1 got pulled from the shelves. So far so good!
????? when did they pull VR1? I haven't looked lately but I know you can still buy it online.

I'm still running M1 5w-30 on this car but my internals are all stock. I'm starting to wonder if I should change to something else next time. VR1 would be my choice if I do.

I've just recently started running VR1 in my '69 after reading about all the oil issues.
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Old 10-30-2013, 11:28 PM   #38
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????? when did they pull VR1? I haven't looked lately but I know you can still buy it online.

I'm still running M1 5w-30 on this car but my internals are all stock. I'm starting to wonder if I should change to something else next time. VR1 would be my choice if I do.

I've just recently started running VR1 in my '69 after reading about all the oil issues.
Its been about 5 months or so that stores stopped restocking. I asked the guys at Oreilleys about it and they said they were pulling it off the shelves. Last time I went all they has was 40w and 50w. They still had a couple containers of 10w-30 VR1 synthetic, but I was running conventional for the higher ZDDP. Ive seen a couple cases here and there on eBay. Amazon was out of stock a couple weeks ago but looks to have some now. Maybe its coming back??

Edit: Looks like it went up in price also. Used to be $4.99, now its $7.99/qt.
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Old 10-31-2013, 01:36 AM   #39
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????? when did they pull VR1? I haven't looked lately but I know you can still buy it online.

I'm still running M1 5w-30 on this car but my internals are all stock. I'm starting to wonder if I should change to something else next time. VR1 would be my choice if I do.

I've just recently started running VR1 in my '69 after reading about all the oil issues.
Until you cam it I'm sure you will be fine. Just use a good filter and change both more often than OEM recommends. I think Pennzoil Platinum Ultra would work well on a stock cam and be better than normal full synthetic M1. I think the off the shelf M1, Castrol, Pennzoil and other PREMIUM full synthetic 5W-30 oils are a good oil for a stock cam as they do have very good film strength but they seriously lack in the ZDDp. Not really their fault as the Government made them do this. The ZDDP content is what is needed for aftermarket cams with aggressive lifts and fast/aggressive lobe ramp rates. The ZDDP additive is interesting and I wonder if it works like it should. That way you could use a inexpensive oil like Pennzoil Platinum Ultra which has great film strength and get the ZDDP levels correct as well. Thing is I have no idea if they work as directed. Case in point octane boosters. Only like 2 out of tens of those actually work as directed.
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Old 10-31-2013, 02:11 AM   #40
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Everything im reading about ZDDP is about flat tappet cams. I use Amsoil 5w30 signature. Id like to keep useing it. Maybe ill switch to Zrod when I get my cam. What will this do to the cats. Im planning on ARH lt headers with cats and cam at the same time in the spring. cam specs. 230/242 .612 114LSA
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Old 10-31-2013, 02:29 AM   #41
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Everything im reading about ZDDP is about flat tappet cams. I use Amsoil 5w30 signature. Id like to keep useing it. Maybe ill switch to Zrod when I get my cam. What will this do to the cats. Im planning on ARH lt headers with cats and cam at the same time in the spring. cam specs. 230/242 .612 114LSA
It just clogs them up faster. OEM cats are expected to make it past 100k miles before showing signs of failure. If you're running aftermarket cats, instead of making it to 100k, they may only make it to 50k. But the easy way to look at it is, $200 for new high flow cats, or $9000 for a new engine. Easy math if you ask me!
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Old 10-31-2013, 02:48 AM   #42
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i just posted a thread about my plans for this spring. ARH LT headers. might skip the cats all together. I dont want any smells though.
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Old 10-31-2013, 06:51 AM   #43
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I just got my cam and heads done. I'm using amsoil signature 5w30. As far as I read it's good enough. I'm thinking about putting in some zddp additive.
I don't have cats so I don't really care that much about that.
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Old 10-31-2013, 09:15 AM   #44
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What does the PF48R bring to table? Is it just bigger?


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It has more media and a thicker case. I have them in stock but they are over double the price of the PF48 at $12.95.

Quote:
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That is correct. We use mobile 1 BUT only 0w-40 which has a good zinc content.

In the last few years we have seen a good amount of cam/lifter failures. All different brand cams so I rule the cam out. Most common answer was using whatever oil was on sale.
I think the cams falling apart is what causes the oil pump pressure valves to stick. I've had a mellings stick before.
So, best I could say is use the correct oil and filter, change regularly.
The zinc issue is more related to none roller flat tappet set ups and there haven't been any findings stating that lower zinc levels affect roller set ups. I've seen this exact same thing on 100% stock LS3 and L99's so I wouldn't attribute it to only aftermarket cams needing higher grade oils. I've also seen it on multiple camshaft brands so you can't say it is a Comp Cams issue. I've talked with a lot of long time GM LS builders and they generally say the check valves stick due to dirty oil and that can happen with any oil on the market or pump for that matter. It could be the detergents being used in the newer oils as well but this is all speculation at this point.

I also recommend changing your oil and filter regularly as I stated in my original post. Going forward we will advise customers to use Red Line 5w30 or other high grade oils with the PF48R filter on ALL vehicles including 100% stock cars. The cost is double but at the end of the day it is cheaper than replacing parts or an engine for that matter.

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Old 10-31-2013, 01:40 PM   #45
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Is the PF48R any better than a Mobil 1 or K&N filter?
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Old 11-01-2013, 10:33 AM   #46
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PM to Jordan to discuss this further
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Old 11-01-2013, 05:46 PM   #47
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someone above mentioned the oil pump failure didnt apply to L99s. the later consensus is the pumps fail from engine/cam failure - perhaps as a result of oil quality.

Soooo...

Is the L99 pump any different than the Ls3s?

Has there been stock oil pump failures of L99s with cams? Dont think an LS3 conversion is Required for All cams (VVT?)

Seems to me the pump could still fail as a result of a cam failure on a L99.


Also (mentioned in one of my other threads):

Any reason besides cost why one shouldnt run a higher zinc oil such as the Joe gibbs LS30, even if the car isnt cammed (stock internals)?
.
This is a good question because I can only think of one L99 oil pump failure from this site in 4 years. There have been many LS3 oil pump failures reported and yes the L99 and Ls3 oil pumps are different.
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Old 11-04-2013, 11:03 AM   #48
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Back on the road again...

Picked the car up on Friday. Now running stage two JDP grind and making 456 RWHP and 418 RWTQ. I am happy to have my baby back and will be changing oil more frequently!

Thanks for the lively discussion on this thread everyone. I hope no one has to go through this expense and at least takes away some learnings from my experience.

Thanks to Jordan and Jeremy at JDP Motorsports for the outstanding support and quick turn around of "UGO2SLO"!

-Dane
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Old 11-04-2013, 12:25 PM   #49
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someone above mentioned the oil pump failure didnt apply to L99s. the later consensus is the pumps fail from engine/cam failure - perhaps as a result of oil quality.

Soooo...

Is the L99 pump any different than the Ls3s?

Has there been stock oil pump failures of L99s with cams? Dont think an LS3 conversion is Required for All cams (VVT?)

Seems to me the pump could still fail as a result of a cam failure on a L99.


Also (mentioned in one of my other threads):

Any reason besides cost why one shouldnt run a higher zinc oil such as the Joe gibbs LS30, even if the car isnt cammed (stock internals)?
.
If I remember correctly, the oil pumps on the L99 can provide the higher pressure/flow required to modulate the cam phasing.
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Old 11-04-2013, 12:27 PM   #50
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Dane what's the grind on the JDP stage II cam?
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