Camaro5 Chevy Camaro Forum / Camaro ZL1, SS and V6 Forums - Camaro5.com
 
Vitesse Motorsports
Go Back   Camaro5 Chevy Camaro Forum / Camaro ZL1, SS and V6 Forums - Camaro5.com > Technical Camaro Topics > Camaro Issues / Problems | Warranty Discussions | TSB and Recalls

Camaro Issues / Problems | Warranty Discussions | TSB and Recalls Report, discuss and diagnose any issues and problems with your Camaro, including warranty discussions.

Reply
 
Thread Tools
Old 04-22-2013, 01:17 PM   #1
Apex Motorsports

 
Apex Motorsports's Avatar
 
Drives: 2000 Camaro SS
Join Date: Feb 2010
Location: Louisville, Ky.
Posts: 23,313
Talking Will A Tune Void My Warranty?



In “Will This Mod Void My Warranty?” we discussed the relationship between modifying your car and warranty law. The conclusion of that post was that a service department or automotive manufacturer can not legally void your warranty simply because you have installed aftermarket parts or have modified your vehicle. They can, however, deny a warranty claim if they can prove the issue in question was a direct result of the installed part or modification. But how does that apply to those who want or need a performance tune?

The tune in your ECU (Electronic Control Unit) controls every aspect of the engine’s operation: fuel and ignition maps, variable valve timing, rev limits, speed limiters, and many other functions. From the factory your car’s tune is set pretty conservatively in an effort to strike a balance between performance, emissions, fuel mileage, and reliability. Air/fuel ratios are generally a little rich and ignition timing is generally retarded to reduce the likelihood of detonation. Rev limits are set low to reduce wear and stress. And on and on it goes. Adjusting many of these setting will result in more power and better performance but, like almost all performance upgrades, it is a give and take. A leaner fuel map and advanced timing will add power but leaves you more vulnerable to detonation. A higher red line allows you to run out a little longer but at the cost of additional wear and an increased risk of a catastrophic failure. An experienced professional tuner is capable of writing a well balanced customized performance tune, but the OEM manufacturers (AKA: the guys who are ultimately on the hook for the warranty) see it differently.

The OEM manufacture’s stance is that a change to the stock tune exposes the engine and drive train to unknown and untested stresses that can negatively impact reliability. Because of the unknown consequences of this additional stress it is their policy to cancel all remaining engine and drive train warranty. Below are PDF copies of Ford and GM service bulletins laying out their policies on the matter.

GM 09-06-04-026A

Ford 11-7-7

If you get a tune and then have an engine or drive train problem you are most likely going to have a serious uphill battle. The thing to keep in mind is that the Magnuson-Moss Warranty Act (15 U.S.C. 2302(C)) still applies. They can not deny a warranty repair unless the issue in question is the direct result of the tune. If there is no link then they have to honor the warranty. If there is you are on the hook.

A tune is absolutely necessary for anyone looking to maximize the performance of their car. My advice is to focus on other aspects of your vehicle until you are prepared to take responsibility if an issue were to arise. Once you are, the sky is the limit.
__________________

Last edited by Apex Motorsports; 08-25-2013 at 11:22 AM.
Apex Motorsports is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-15-2013, 02:54 AM   #2
moserbe
 
moserbe's Avatar
 
Drives: 2012 Camaro SS
Join Date: May 2012
Location: Wellsboro, Pa
Posts: 744
Thanks.
__________________
moserbe is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-15-2013, 06:22 PM   #3
pnyklr

 
Drives: A Gift From My Wife
Join Date: Apr 2009
Location: Powder Springs, GA
Posts: 1,531
Don't believe the OP, he does not have a clue what he is talking about.



-Funk
__________________
2012 Convert 2SS/RS SW/IO LS3 - Build #1081

07/21/2011 - (3800) Order produced and vehicle is being prepared for shipping.
08/09/2011 - (4200) Shipped (vehicle is shipped to the dealer or interim point of delivery).
08/16/2011 - (5000) Vehicle has been delivered to dealer.
08/19/2011 - In my possession.
pnyklr is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-20-2013, 08:07 PM   #4
Apex Motorsports

 
Apex Motorsports's Avatar
 
Drives: 2000 Camaro SS
Join Date: Feb 2010
Location: Louisville, Ky.
Posts: 23,313
Quote:
Originally Posted by pnyklr View Post
Don't believe the OP, he does not have a clue what he is talking about.



-Funk
Yeah, clearly.
__________________
Apex Motorsports is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-20-2013, 08:12 PM   #5
motorhead
bars suck
 
motorhead's Avatar
 
Drives: ZL1
Join Date: Sep 2009
Location: central, Pa
Posts: 7,799
That's exactly why I bought a ZL1 over modding an SS like everyone always likes to say.

I would rather have the factory power and maintain the warranty than to take a new car and be on the hook if something fails on a modded one.
motorhead is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-05-2013, 07:11 AM   #6
Apex Motorsports

 
Apex Motorsports's Avatar
 
Drives: 2000 Camaro SS
Join Date: Feb 2010
Location: Louisville, Ky.
Posts: 23,313
Quote:
Originally Posted by motorhead View Post
That's exactly why I bought a ZL1 over modding an SS like everyone always likes to say.

I would rather have the factory power and maintain the warranty than to take a new car and be on the hook if something fails on a modded one.
This is a great point. GM has done a great job of fleshing out the 5th Generation Camaro line up. There are niche models available that appeal to different types of customers that do not require any modification. Just buy and drive. Or you can buy a standard SS and build something completely unique.
__________________
Apex Motorsports is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-05-2013, 08:56 AM   #7
RenegadeSS
 
RenegadeSS's Avatar
 
Drives: Camaro LLT
Join Date: May 2012
Location: Union City, NJ
Posts: 481
What if the tune just does speed corrections, and removes the governor?
__________________
RenegadeSS is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-08-2013, 12:47 AM   #8
Sugarfree135
 
Drives: 2011 2SS/RS
Join Date: Jun 2013
Location: Midwest
Posts: 335
Quote:
Originally Posted by Apex Chase View Post
This is a great point. GM has done a great job of fleshing out the 5th Generation Camaro line up. There are niche models available that appeal to different types of customers that do not require any modification. Just buy and drive. Or you can buy a standard SS and build something completely unique.
Well some of us don't have $60k+ to buy a zl1 when you can buy a used SS for $27k and after putting lt's, intake, and a cam in it making it faster than the zl1 which uses the same drivetrain components anyway lol

On a side note unless I misread I saw nowhere in the tech bulletin about being able to tell if it was previously tuned. meaning that if you restore the factory tune to a car that has light bolt ons where driveability wouldn't severely be affected, they would not know it had previously been tuned and would still cover the failure unless your mods were the cause of the problem directly.
Sugarfree135 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-09-2013, 04:42 AM   #9
JCunningham

 
JCunningham's Avatar
 
Drives: 2012 SIM 2SS/RS
Join Date: Jun 2013
Location: Attica, NY
Posts: 1,965
The ZL1 does not use the same driveline components. the clutch, drive shaft, rear end and cv shafts are heavy duty. The brakes are also better and you need that with a SC.
__________________
2012 2SS/RS M6 SIM, Painted Carbon Flash rally stripes, Elite CC, 3.91 gears, New Era ported TB, OTR, and Dyno Tune, Heritage Grill, Night Fury cam, 25%Fluidampr, Melling 296 Oil pump, Katech CR-5 chain, Cloyes LS2 HD tensioner, PAC 1205x springs and Comp Cams trunions. ARH 1 7/8" LT headers w/cats, TWM full Shifter, BMR sways, trailing arms, toe rods, delrin cradle bushings, BK039 rear control bushings, front bushings. Solo Mach-XL exhaust
JCunningham is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-09-2013, 11:06 AM   #10
Apex Motorsports

 
Apex Motorsports's Avatar
 
Drives: 2000 Camaro SS
Join Date: Feb 2010
Location: Louisville, Ky.
Posts: 23,313
Quote:
Originally Posted by Sugarfree135 View Post
Well some of us don't have $60k+ to buy a zl1 when you can buy a used SS for $27k and after putting lt's, intake, and a cam in it making it faster than the zl1 which uses the same drivetrain components anyway lol

On a side note unless I misread I saw nowhere in the tech bulletin about being able to tell if it was previously tuned. meaning that if you restore the factory tune to a car that has light bolt ons where driveability wouldn't severely be affected, they would not know it had previously been tuned and would still cover the failure unless your mods were the cause of the problem directly.
The ECM makes a record when it is re-flashed. When they pull the info they will be able to tell if you re-flashed it back to the stock tune.
__________________
Apex Motorsports is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-09-2013, 11:42 AM   #11
Sugarfree135
 
Drives: 2011 2SS/RS
Join Date: Jun 2013
Location: Midwest
Posts: 335
But does it save the date and time it was done or just that it was done? My thinking is that if you bought a used car you could argue the previous owner did it not you, as long as it's not time stamped.
Sugarfree135 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-09-2013, 11:47 AM   #12
menendez1293
Emerald Coast Camaros
 
menendez1293's Avatar
 
Drives: 2010 Camaro 2LT/RS M6
Join Date: Nov 2009
Location: Tallahassee FL
Posts: 9,240
Quote:
Originally Posted by Apex Chase View Post
The ECM makes a record when it is re-flashed. When they pull the info they will be able to tell if you re-flashed it back to the stock tune.
True in certain circumstances Chase. According to Trifecta and some other third party testers on a manual V6 you can load the tune in ghost mode and flash back to the factory tune without the dealer ever knowing. I have never tired it myself nor would I personally choose trifecta for my tuning needs just saying what has been reported.
__________________
Proud owner of litho #179 Click Picture for Build Thread
menendez1293 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-09-2013, 11:52 AM   #13
Apex Motorsports

 
Apex Motorsports's Avatar
 
Drives: 2000 Camaro SS
Join Date: Feb 2010
Location: Louisville, Ky.
Posts: 23,313
Quote:
Originally Posted by menendez1293 View Post
True in certain circumstances Chase. According to Trifecta and some other third party testers on a manual V6 you can load the tune in ghost mode and flash back to the factory tune without the dealer ever knowing. I have never tired it myself nor would I personally choose trifecta for my tuning needs just saying what has been reported.
That may be the case with the V6, I am not as familiar with that system. I was thinking about the SS.
__________________
Apex Motorsports is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-09-2013, 11:57 AM   #14
menendez1293
Emerald Coast Camaros
 
menendez1293's Avatar
 
Drives: 2010 Camaro 2LT/RS M6
Join Date: Nov 2009
Location: Tallahassee FL
Posts: 9,240
Quote:
Originally Posted by Apex Chase View Post
That may be the case with the V6, I am not as familiar with that system. I was thinking about the SS.
Yup I understand that part and I didn't mean to call you out since you know more than me in several other topics but I just wanted to clarify since you aren't in the V8 sub forum and didn't want a V6 to read and think that it would apply to them as well.
__________________
Proud owner of litho #179 Click Picture for Build Thread
menendez1293 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-09-2013, 12:26 PM   #15
jrpimp00
 
jrpimp00's Avatar
 
Drives: '10 Black/IOM Camaro SS/RS
Join Date: Mar 2010
Location: Fayetteville NC
Posts: 420
This is the reason I have my T/A. I can understand GM not warranting any car that's been tuned. Just like Samsung wont warranty a laptop that's been opened. Or a phone that's been rooted.
__________________
2010 Camaro 2SS/RS Black/IOM //// 1998 Pontiac Trans AM 819 RWHP @ 12 PSI
jrpimp00 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-22-2013, 09:00 AM   #16
Apex Motorsports

 
Apex Motorsports's Avatar
 
Drives: 2000 Camaro SS
Join Date: Feb 2010
Location: Louisville, Ky.
Posts: 23,313
Quote:
Originally Posted by jrpimp00 View Post
This is the reason I have my T/A. I can understand GM not warranting any car that's been tuned. Just like Samsung wont warranty a laptop that's been opened. Or a phone that's been rooted.
That is an excellent comparison.
__________________
Apex Motorsports is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-22-2013, 01:31 PM   #17
vroomapunk
[COTW 5/12/14]
 
vroomapunk's Avatar
 
Drives: 2012 CRT NF Cammed 2SS/RS
Join Date: Oct 2011
Location: New Orleans, Louisiana
Posts: 5,455
I have a tune and my rear end was replaced under warranty.

I have a tune, headers, intake, tb, HF cats, and my rear end clunking noise could not be fixed by changing the fluid/friction modifier.

When the dealer decided they wanted to open up the rear end, they had to send the file to GM containing a snapshot or w/e of ecu. GM gave them the go ahead, even with my tune, and they replaced the ENTIRE rear end. Total would have been $1,750 and I got a new rear end with the rest of the car at 25k miles.

So dont give up hope if you think your mods or tune actually didnt cause the damage.
__________________
vroomapunk is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-23-2013, 08:55 PM   #18
Msmall143

 
Msmall143's Avatar
 
Drives: Camaro
Join Date: Sep 2013
Location: NOVA
Posts: 1,731
Quote:
Originally Posted by RenegadeSS View Post
What if the tune just does speed corrections, and removes the governor?
It wouldn't matter, to them its 1's and 0's. They aren't going to start dissecting what the tune did, just that it was done. It's not open for interpretation from gm's point of view.
Msmall143 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-23-2013, 08:57 PM   #19
Msmall143

 
Msmall143's Avatar
 
Drives: Camaro
Join Date: Sep 2013
Location: NOVA
Posts: 1,731
Nice write up chase. This is exactly why I'm looking at the kooks lt's with green cats and no tune. I don't mind voiding my exhaust warranty, but don't want to void entire powertrain for the time being.
Msmall143 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-24-2013, 04:38 PM   #20
Apex Motorsports

 
Apex Motorsports's Avatar
 
Drives: 2000 Camaro SS
Join Date: Feb 2010
Location: Louisville, Ky.
Posts: 23,313
Quote:
Originally Posted by vroomapunk View Post
I have a tune and my rear end was replaced under warranty.

I have a tune, headers, intake, tb, HF cats, and my rear end clunking noise could not be fixed by changing the fluid/friction modifier.

When the dealer decided they wanted to open up the rear end, they had to send the file to GM containing a snapshot or w/e of ecu. GM gave them the go ahead, even with my tune, and they replaced the ENTIRE rear end. Total would have been $1,750 and I got a new rear end with the rest of the car at 25k miles.

So dont give up hope if you think your mods or tune actually didnt cause the damage.
Absolutely. Like I said in the opening post the Magnuson-Moss Warranty Act (15 U.S.C. 2302(C)) still applies. They can not deny a warranty repair unless the issue in question is the direct result of the tune.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Msmall143 View Post
Nice write up chase. This is exactly why I'm looking at the kooks lt's with green cats and no tune. I don't mind voiding my exhaust warranty, but don't want to void entire powertrain for the time being.
Thanks.
__________________
Apex Motorsports is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-09-2013, 02:22 PM   #21
SeriouslySinning
 
SeriouslySinning's Avatar
 
Drives: 2013 Chevy Camaro 2LT 3.6 V6
Join Date: Apr 2013
Location: United States
Posts: 715
Has anyone looked into buying an additional ECM and tuning it is a good work around? Id think that switching that out would work.
__________________

Seriously Sinning - "Veronica"
Commandment 11 - Thou shall not travel slowly.
SeriouslySinning is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-12-2013, 09:34 PM   #22
honor first
MURICA!
 
honor first's Avatar
 
Drives: 2014 2SS 1LE
Join Date: Sep 2013
Location: RGV, Texas
Posts: 464
Quote:
Originally Posted by SeriouslySinning View Post
Has anyone looked into buying an additional ECM and tuning it is a good work around? Id think that switching that out would work.
would be interested in this as well
__________________
Pro Amore Patriae
God gave three gifts to man; dogs, women, and the LS motor.
2014 Camaro 2SS 6MT RS 1LE Black on Black
AFE Intake, Stainless Power Headers + HFC, BadlanzHPE Electric Cutouts. 315/275 Nittos, Wheels. Debadged, Cosmetic Mods, Sound System, More
honor first is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-12-2013, 10:30 PM   #23
The Stig
knows 2 facts about ducks
 
The Stig's Avatar
 
Drives: ...and they're both wrong
Join Date: Aug 2009
Location: The HMS Invincible
Posts: 26,680
Quote:
Originally Posted by SeriouslySinning View Post
Has anyone looked into buying an additional ECM and tuning it is a good work around? Id think that switching that out would work.
Doesn't work.

There are too many variables that are synced between the ECM, BCM, and PCM. Once GM pulls the ECM they'll see none of the variables line up.

That and you'll be hard pressed finding a dealer that'll program a second ECM to your VIN
__________________
Click to view my build thread
The Stig is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-02-2014, 02:23 PM   #24
Mcarltonjr
 
Mcarltonjr's Avatar
 
Drives: 2013 F150 STX
Join Date: Nov 2013
Location: Phoenix AZ
Posts: 140
Quote:
Originally Posted by The Stig View Post
Doesn't work.

There are too many variables that are synced between the ECM, BCM, and PCM. Once GM pulls the ECM they'll see none of the variables line up.

That and you'll be hard pressed finding a dealer that'll program a second ECM to your VIN
My dealer actually told me to do this. Mod friendly. They told me they would make sure all the numbers matched if I proceeded with a dyno tune and long tube headers for my car. The dealership stated they have done this on all the camaros in their performance department. If anything goes wrong with the car they will swap the computer with the stock one thats been untouched.
Mcarltonjr is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-02-2014, 05:40 PM   #25
The Stig
knows 2 facts about ducks
 
The Stig's Avatar
 
Drives: ...and they're both wrong
Join Date: Aug 2009
Location: The HMS Invincible
Posts: 26,680
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mcarltonjr View Post
My dealer actually told me to do this. Mod friendly. They told me they would make sure all the numbers matched if I proceeded with a dyno tune and long tube headers for my car. The dealership stated they have done this on all the camaros in their performance department. If anything goes wrong with the car they will swap the computer with the stock one thats been untouched.
I'm willing to bet that GM won't care what they "told" you. They'll still void your powertrain warranty.
__________________
Click to view my build thread
The Stig is offline   Reply With Quote
 
Reply

Tags
tune, void warranty, warranty

Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump


All times are GMT -5. The time now is 12:32 PM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.7
Copyright ©2000 - 2014, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.