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Old 12-31-2013, 12:42 PM   #1
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Fuel setup for a 625-650 rwhp Cammed/Heads/Centri blown car?

I have been doing research more and more because I plan on buying an ECS setup sometime next year, with my goal in mind being a 650rwhp street car that will see light track duty (2-3 times a year). I already have almost all my suspension mods done, and I know I will eventually need a clutch. But before I start looking at blower kits, I wanted to tackle my fuel setup first.

I know everyone is going to tell me a LPE Dual pump and ID850s, but I was wondering if I could use FIC 900cc Injectors, a ZL1 pump with a BAP? Would that support my power level without issue?

Also, how does pinning the crank work? I understand the basic concept, but I wanted someone to explain to me in detail please, thanks!

Also, if there is any other advice that you guys want to throw at me, I'm all ears.
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Old 12-31-2013, 01:10 PM   #2
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Go with Squash and you will not have to worry about fuel again unless you go over well over 1200rwhp. And his returnless setup should be out very soon.

And yes, you can use FIC injectors but check with your tuner. Some tuners have preferences on injectors.

Pinning the crank is done with a jig. The pic is of a double pinned crank. It prevents the dampener/balancer from spinning on the crank.

You place the "cap" with holes on it over the end of the crank and use a bolt to hold it in place. You then put tape or otherwise mark the drill bit so you go to the correct depth. Drill to depth. Remove crank bolt and "cap." Tap the dowel(s) in place and then install a new crank bolt. The crank bolt head covers the dowels and prevents the dowels from walking out.


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Old 12-31-2013, 01:14 PM   #3
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Originally Posted by blake-b View Post
Go with Squash and you will not have to worry about fuel again unless you go over 1200rwhp. And his returnless setup should be out very soon.

And yes, you can use FIC injectors but check with your tuner. Some tuners have preferences on injectors.
My tuner actually recommended me to go with FIC injectors to save some coin on IDs..they said IDs are an option, but spending extra is entirely up to me.

How much is the Squash system? I'm not looking to skate by with a bare minimum fuel system, but I also don't want a top fuel dragster fuel system either, and if you're talking about 1200rwhp, then that doesn't sound like something I need, lol.
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Old 12-31-2013, 01:16 PM   #4
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Pinning the crank...

Our lower pulley is not keyed so basically you remove the lower crank bolt, drill a hole in the place where the lower pulley slips over the crank centered at the joint line. Tap in a dowel pin and replace the crank bolt with a new one. Takes a bit (say 5' cheater bar) to get the bolt out & a new one to torque spec.

Many shops offer a kit, I used the SLP one.

Squash returnless should be around $1200 when it gets released. The ZL1 pump, ADM FPCM & if needed a boost a pump may get you by.

Edit: Late again. lol.
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Old 12-31-2013, 01:24 PM   #5
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Everyone keeps talking about this squash returnless system but seems this has been going on for a year now. lol Im also looking for something to hold about 650.. but I dont know if I can wait for this system everyone is talking about to get released. I just ordered my whipple and plan to install it ASAP.
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Old 12-31-2013, 01:26 PM   #6
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Let me rephrase... Up to and over 1200rwhp for Squash. I have his return style system and there hasn't been a single hiccup with it. I have went from 825 to over 1k at the wheels and the fuel system system hasn't needed anything from the initial install. I don't know what the Squash setup is going for now. I got mine direct from Andy though just as they were being introduced.

If you are like most people, 650rwhp will only be a stepping as you will want more. Build your fuel system once and build it right and you will save money in the long run.
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Old 12-31-2013, 01:26 PM   #7
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If you are at 498rwhp now you will be around 698rwhp with the base ecs kit. A stock ls3 went on the dyno right before me and i made 200hp more than him. Origionally it was base ecs kit headers exhaust and it put down 525rwhp mustang dyno/577rwhp on dynojet. Installed meth and ground restrictor plate out a little for 1psi more boost and it made 600rwhp on same mustang dyno so id guess around 650rwhp on a dynojet. I have id850s zl1 pump and adm fpcm.
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Old 12-31-2013, 01:35 PM   #8
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Quote:
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snip...
If you are like most people, 650rwhp will only be a stepping as you will want more. Build your fuel system once and build it right and you will save money in the long run.
Amen. Squash will be my 3rd fuel system upgrade.
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Old 12-31-2013, 01:46 PM   #9
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Quote:
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If you are at 498rwhp now you will be around 698rwhp with the base ecs kit. A stock ls3 went on the dyno right before me and i made 200hp more than him. Origionally it was base ecs kit headers exhaust and it put down 525rwhp mustang dyno/577rwhp on dynojet. Installed meth and ground restrictor plate out a little for 1psi more boost and it made 600rwhp on same mustang dyno so id guess around 650rwhp on a dynojet. I have id850s zl1 pump and adm fpcm.
So a stock LS3 meaning stock manifolds and everything? A stock SS puts down 370 or so w/ M6 so I am 200hp over that but I also have full aftermarket exhaust so the ECS kit doesn't quite give me 200 over by itself. I don't think if a built car making 498 will make 698 with the base kit but it would be 650+ for sure. That's what Im expecting when I put my cam/heads/injectors in anyway lol. Anything over 650rwhp without meth will be just icing on the cake for me.

BTW, Im running the LPE twin pump setup and so far so good. the way I understand it the twin is good for anything I have planned so Im sticking with it unless it doesn't cooperate like I want.
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Old 12-31-2013, 02:29 PM   #10
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Don't skimp on fuel system. Get the Squash setup and be done with it.
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Old 12-31-2013, 02:38 PM   #11
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I'm at all I can do with 62.5 lb injectors and a ADM/ZL1 pump combo. 9psi plus a cam @654whp. I honestly plan to run a alkycontrol kit just for some added timing and such...but no more boost. It will also be a nice pad for 93's iffyness at times. I figure there is another 20-30 horse in the methanol. Considering I'm losing some on the dyno to a high stall and you have a manual...you would probably see 700whp max on my combo. Take that as food for thought and search your goals. My car runs mid ten range...plenty enough to make me happy. Next step up on fueling would be the Lingenfelter twin set up. Next up after that would be the Unicorn Squash set up everyone is waiting for.
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Old 12-31-2013, 02:57 PM   #12
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Great input so far guys. You all are the Subject matter experts, and I'm not dismissing your advice by any means. Yes you're right when you say "I will want more". I made 7-8 runs at the drag strip right after my heads/cam, and I instantly wanted more power. But I realize, going from 405 rwhp to 498 rwhp, and going from 498rwhp to 650rwhp are two totally different things, lol.

One of the reasons I would want to stop there is because I know the LS3 bottom end can handle it (with a good tune of course), but the bottom end isn't bullet proof by any means. I don't think I would feel comfortable going any higher than 650 without talks of a built shortblock, and at that point, you would be talking about building the entire car all over again.

Another reason why I would want to stop at 650 (not even so much that number, but whatever 7 psi through my heads/cam combo will get me) is my heads are milled, and my compression is about 11:1. I do not plan on running a lot of boost at all, and I know that too much boost on a high compression motor is just asking for issues.

So right now, I'm still trying to figure out if a MSD BAP and ZL1 pump would be enough, and what is the ADM FPCM? What exactly does it do? I've heard it mentioned a few times.
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Old 12-31-2013, 02:57 PM   #13
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ZL1 Fuel pump & ADM FPCM if your never going over 650 rwhp (640 here and fuel look good through the dyno and street pulls). That was my limit, I wont keep the car long enough to do another build. But If your intentions are to keep the car for a long time Squash fuel system, ID850s, and Alky are a must, if i had to start again thats what I would purchase.

I will build my 6th gen Camaro properly from the start (Well once it comes out)
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Old 12-31-2013, 03:01 PM   #14
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ZL1 Fuel pump & ADM FPCM if your never going over 650 rwhp (640 here and fuel look good through the dyno and street pulls). That was my limit, I wont keep the car long enough to do another build. But If your intentions are to keep the car for a long time Squash fuel system, ID850s, and Alky are a must, if i had to start again thats what I would purchase.

I will build my 6th gen Camaro properly from the start (Well once it comes out)
I do not plan on getting rid of the car at all. I will keep this car until it's time to give it to one of my children for them to build it all over again. And I don't plan on going over 650, I actually don't even plan on going over 7 psi for the simple fact that I have factored in the cam and heads that will help me reach my goals without turning up the boost past the base kit psi. Even then, 650 is just a number, but I know it won't take much to make it to 600+ with my current modifications. How much did your ADM ZL1 FPCM run you?
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Old 12-31-2013, 03:04 PM   #15
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call up Andy at ADM...order ZL1 pump & FPCM module from him. Under $500 shipped if I remember right. He will give your tuner the mapping needed to be changed for the FPCM (fuel pump control module). It's all plug and play. Yes, adding a boost a pump would cover you around that number but it may not be needed. I didn't need it, but if I pulley'd down, it would cover me and take me to just under 700whp.
I personally like the lower boost level knowing I can beat on it at will and knowing that nothing is really in 'excess'.
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Old 12-31-2013, 03:08 PM   #16
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call up Andy at ADM...order ZL1 pump & FPCM module from him. Under $500 shipped if I remember right. He will give your tuner the mapping needed to be changed for the FPCM (fuel pump control module). It's all plug and play. Yes, adding a boost a pump would cover you around that number but it may not be needed. I didn't need it, but if I pulley'd down, it would cover me and take me to just under 700whp.
I personally like the lower boost level knowing I can beat on it at will and knowing that nothing is really in 'excess'.
So you would recommend the same setup you have for mine if I'm reading correctly?
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Old 12-31-2013, 03:57 PM   #17
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Looks that way. 650rwhp limit for the ZL1 pump for most apps.
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Old 12-31-2013, 05:33 PM   #18
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Just assess your goals with the car. $500 vs $900. 650whp vs 800whp. Make it a mod u do once...ya know?
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Old 12-31-2013, 05:38 PM   #19
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Just assess your goals with the car. $500 vs $900. 650whp vs 800whp. Make it a mod u do once...ya know?
^ this
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Old 01-01-2014, 12:06 AM   #20
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When I first got my car done I used a stock pump, and BAP with meth. It put me at 641rwhp. With a retune after a header install I made 684rwhp. The only problem I ran into was that at WOT I could feel the car starving for fuel. Shortly after, when the ZL1 pumps were available, another car went down to ECS, The ZL1 pump, BAP and meth made 800rwhp. So to answer your question, yes your budget parts will easily support 650 rwhp. Ultimately the Squash is hands-down the best system out there, second would be the LPE/ADM twin pump. What you're looking to do will be good for you.
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Old 01-01-2014, 12:33 AM   #21
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Quote:
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Looks that way. 650rwhp limit for the ZL1 pump for most apps.
Quote:
Originally Posted by grocerygetter View Post
Just assess your goals with the car. $500 vs $900. 650whp vs 800whp. Make it a mod u do once...ya know?
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ron_Robinson1 View Post
^ this
Quote:
Originally Posted by Chris82xx View Post
When I first got my car done I used a stock pump, and BAP with meth. It put me at 641rwhp. With a retune after a header install I made 684rwhp. The only problem I ran into was that at WOT I could feel the car starving for fuel. Shortly after, when the ZL1 pumps were available, another car went down to ECS, The ZL1 pump, BAP and meth made 800rwhp. So to answer your question, yes your budget parts will easily support 650 rwhp. Ultimately the Squash is hands-down the best system out there, second would be the LPE/ADM twin pump. What you're looking to do will be good for you.

Thanks guys, I definitely know exactly what setup I want now, that is aligned with my power goals.
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