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Camaro V8 LS3 / L99 Engine, Exhaust, and Bolt-Ons Bolt-Ons | Intakes | Exhaust

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Old 11-04-2013, 02:11 PM   #51
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Quote:
Originally Posted by caverman View Post
Is the PF48R any better than a Mobil 1 or K&N filter?
The Mobil1 and K&N Filters are both manufactured by Champion Labs. I prefer the A/C Delco PF48R to either of those filters personally.

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Originally Posted by Retro69 View Post
PM to Jordan to discuss this further
PM replied too!! Sorry for the delay!

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Originally Posted by HRD_WRK View Post
someone above mentioned the oil pump failure didnt apply to L99s. the later consensus is the pumps fail from engine/cam failure - perhaps as a result of oil quality.

Soooo...

Is the L99 pump any different than the Ls3s?

Has there been stock oil pump failures of L99s with cams? Dont think an LS3 conversion is Required for All cams (VVT?)

Seems to me the pump could still fail as a result of a cam failure on a L99.


Also (mentioned in one of my other threads):

Any reason besides cost why one shouldnt run a higher zinc oil such as the Joe gibbs LS30, even if the car isnt cammed (stock internals)?
.
I've seen the pumps fail in both LS3 and L99 applications although they seem more common with the LS3..

It certainly won't hurt to run a higher quality oil in any application.

Quote:
Originally Posted by gr8daneh View Post
Picked the car up on Friday. Now running stage two JDP grind and making 456 RWHP and 418 RWTQ. I am happy to have my baby back and will be changing oil more frequently!

Thanks for the lively discussion on this thread everyone. I hope no one has to go through this expense and at least takes away some learnings from my experience.

Thanks to Jordan and Jeremy at JDP Motorsports for the outstanding support and quick turn around of "UGO2SLO"!

-Dane
She is running like a champ! I'm glad we were able to get her turned around quickly, Dane! Thank you for your support and I'll see you soon!

Quote:
Originally Posted by kevint View Post
If I remember correctly, the oil pumps on the L99 can provide the higher pressure/flow required to modulate the cam phasing.
That is correct!

Quote:
Originally Posted by SolomonAKOO View Post
Dane what's the grind on the JDP stage II cam?
Solomon - It is our 231/247 camshaft.

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Old 11-04-2013, 06:46 PM   #52
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????? when did they pull VR1? I haven't looked lately but I know you can still buy it online.

I'm still running M1 5w-30 on this car but my internals are all stock. I'm starting to wonder if I should change to something else next time. VR1 would be my choice if I do.

I've just recently started running VR1 in my '69 after reading about all the oil issues.
Interesting, I'm currently running non-synthetic VR1 as well. Coming up on my first change since FI and Cam....hopefully it's coming back if it really did get pulled.

Quote:
Originally Posted by kevint
If I remember correctly, the oil pumps on the L99 can provide the higher pressure/flow required to modulate the cam phasing.
I heard the same. In fact that's what my shop was going to swap mine out for during the cam install (but we forgot ).
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Old 11-18-2013, 04:38 PM   #53
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Quote:
Originally Posted by litle88 View Post
Vader pretty much summed it up. If you go with a cam then you should also change oil. Amsoil zrod, vr1, joe Gibbs, rp all are good oils.
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Originally Posted by JDP Motorsports View Post
We've done testing on numerous cam packages in long duration high RPM instances over thousands of miles with Mobil1 and we haven't has issues. I do prefer Red Line personally but it is twice the cost of Mobil1 and I also like the PF48R filters over the PF48. There are other good premium brands out there as well I just prefer Red Line.


I tried searching, but is there any thread on C5, comparing the oils? Im an oil noob, and will be installing my cam in a few weeks.

I read in a few places that the Zinc content is a concern mainly with flat-tappet cams?

What weight do I need, and how often should I change it? (Its my DD)

My shop uses Mobil 1 on everything, so im still trying to decide....
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Old 11-18-2013, 05:03 PM   #54
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Id still use 10/30 synthetic just use one with more zddp.
Zrod
Vr1
Joe Gibbs to name a few.
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Old 11-18-2013, 05:36 PM   #55
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If anyone is interested in the amount of ZDDP in AMSOIL lubricants here is the info.

Code:
  Primary Recommendations  Phosphorus Level (ppm)  Zinc Level (ppm)
  
  Break-In Oil (BRK)                                                     2040             2265
  
  Z-ROD®   10W-30 Synthetic Motor Oil (ZRT)      1320              1440
  
  Z-ROD®  20W-50 Synthetic Motor Oil (ZRF)       1320             1440
  
  Secondary Recommendations Phosphorus Level (ppm)  Zinc Level(ppm)
  
  Premium Protection 
  10W-40 Synthetic Motor Oil (AMO)                     1265              1378
  
  Premium Protection
   20W-50 Synthetic Motor Oil (ARO)                     1266               1379
  
  Series 3000 5W-30 
  Synthetic Heavy Duty Diesel Oil (HDD)              1266               1379
  
  15W-40 Synthetic Heavy Duty Diesel and Marine 
  Motor Oil (AME)                                                      1267               1377
   
  AMSOIL Synthetic  Racing Oils Phosphorus Level (ppm)  Zinc Level (ppm)
  
  DOMINATOR® 5W-20
  Synthetic Racing Oil (RD20)                                   1424               1575
  
  DOMINATOR® 10W-30 
  Synthetic Racing Oil (RD30)                                   1424               1575
  
  DOMINATOR® 15W-50 
  Synthetic Racing Oil (RD50)                                  1424                 1575
  
  DOMINATOR® SAE 60 
  Synthetic Racing Oil (RD60)                                   1424                 1575
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Old 11-18-2013, 10:25 PM   #56
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so should we be using 10w-30 if we have a cam? I dont want to loose my warranty not using dexos
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Old 11-19-2013, 11:13 AM   #57
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So I emailed Amsoil technical services and asked the following questions:

I will be installing a roller cam in my 2012 6.2L Ls3 SS camaro and Im trying to figure out which oil to use. Your website indicates Z-Rod is for older engines, are there any downsides to the zinc , etc. The car will be daily driven about 13k miles per year (85% highway), with very few, probably 3-5 track days a year.

I have read about stuck oil check valve issues, and I am trying to avoid this. Which oil should I use?

He replied with this:

Chris;

There are a couple of things to consider in your selection. The Z-Rod oil contains a high level of ZDDP (Zinc). This provides excellent anti wear, but can clog the catalytic converter over time. In addition to the anti wear additive benefit, the Z-Rod is better able to protect the engine in cases where the car is infrequently driven or only for relatively short trips (under about 20 miles), when driven.

Byron Selbrede
Technical Services

AMSOIL INC.
ADDRESS: 1 AMSOIL Center, Superior, WI 54880
E-MAIL:bselbrede@amsoil.com
PHONE:715-392-7101
FAX:715-392-3097

And this:

Chris;

Based on your information, I think I would use the 5W30 Signature Series Oil most of the year and maybe change to the Z-Rod for the races. The stuck oil check valve is caused by using inferior quality oil that produces sludge and deposits. The AMSOIL will avoid this problem.

Byron Selbrede
Technical Services

AMSOIL INC.
ADDRESS: 1 AMSOIL Center, Superior, WI 54880
E-MAIL:bselbrede@amsoil.com
PHONE:715-392-7101
FAX:715-392-3097


So i will probably do something like that, if I know im going to the track, put the Z-rod in, since theres not as much of a point to running Z-Rod year round?

I also found this pdf, comparing their oil to every other brand mentioned here. Amsoil did well, Mobil 1 didnt do so great. And according to the charts, Amsoil can go much longer without being changed, therefore making the cost worth it for the Amsoil. Im sold. The biggest thing to see, is only a couple oils did better than average in every test. Mobil 1 is good in one or two, Red line in a couple, etc.

http://www.amsoil.com/lit/g3115.pdf Its a good read.

Edit: Bored at work so ill post these
Attached Images
      
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Old 11-19-2013, 11:43 AM   #58
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Legal claim for non-warranty repair

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Originally Posted by gr8daneh View Post
Hi guys, finally got bit. Started it up and rolled about 50 feet and got the dreaded "No Oil Pressure" message. Shut it down. I know you've heard this story before. Here is the twist...

This was already a new pump installed when I did my CAM at 10,000 miles. I am now just over 25,000. JDP motorsports suggested the early change as a preventive measure at that time. Little did they know that the GM pumps continue to fail even in the new year models and was not just a bad batch problem. They have fixed 6 other Camaro's already this year apparently.

So the moral to my story and maybe what you readers should take away is don't replace bad with bad. I am going to put a Melling oil pump in this time which is what JDP is using going forward. I am just hoping that there was no damage up top to add to my grief.

That is all! Have a good day.

I am a Louisiana Attorney with success on denied warranty repair claims for oil pump failure and slave cylinder failure. These are both unrelated to increased torque or horsepower and can not be denied due to engine or computer modifications.

PM me if you are interested in a claim in Louisiana against GM for either of these issues.

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Old 11-19-2013, 11:53 AM   #59
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I am a Louisiana Attorney with success on denied warranty repair claims for oil pump failure and slave cylinder failure. These are both unrelated to increased torque or horsepower and can not be denied due to engine or computer modifications.

PM me if you are interested in a claim in Louisiana against GM for either of these issues.

Mark A. Holden
"Numptual Nemesis", are you sure you arent a divorce lawyer?
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Old 11-22-2013, 01:24 PM   #60
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That is correct but my practice is not limited to family law. DWI, Personal Injury, Successions, etc.

Divorcefor399.com also includes a lot of good information on DWI and Auto Accidents.

GM paid me $8,500 for failed oil pump under Mangus-Moss Warranty Act. The act also requires manufacturer to pay attorney fees, not the claimant.
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Old 11-22-2013, 01:26 PM   #61
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That is correct but my practice is not limited to family law. DWI, Personal Injury, Successions, etc.

Divorcefor399.com also includes a lot of good information on DWI and Auto Accidents.

GM paid me $8,500 for failed oil pump under Mangus-Moss Warranty Act. The act also requires manufacturer to pay attorney fees, not the claimant.
Ill def look you up if I have a claim haha
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Old 01-15-2014, 07:43 AM   #62
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Pretty sure my Pump failed this morning... waiting for a report from Matt at FSP once we get the car towed and down to him... Hoping its just a pump and easy fix and not the problems like some of the other guys on here had
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Old 01-15-2014, 09:18 AM   #63
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Pretty sure my Pump failed this morning... waiting for a report from Matt at FSP once we get the car towed and down to him... Hoping its just a pump and easy fix and not the problems like some of the other guys on here had
This pump failure issue is getting frustrating! Sorry to hear you are now possibly dealing with it. Problem is, we don't REALY know why, is it cam issue, pump issue, wrong oil? There is just not a good control established to use for analysis. We all have some slightly different set up - oem parts, aftermarket parts, oils, tunes, and driving conditions. I am doing another cam swap now from a very mild cam to the more aggressive Night Fury. I will be using Lethals package including high flow Melling. I have been using Mobil 1 since my first swap. I am interested in seeing if the old cam shows any abnormal wear. At this point I think I will change oil brand. Who knows. All said, seems like rolling the dice with any choice. Hell, I'm paranoid at this point to start the car. I'm going to run it in the ditch watching the oil pressure gauge!
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Old 01-15-2014, 09:19 AM   #64
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Pretty sure my Pump failed this morning... waiting for a report from Matt at FSP once we get the car towed and down to him... Hoping its just a pump and easy fix and not the problems like some of the other guys on here had
The pump is a $132.00 part which is fixed easily, unfortunately, the damage that the upper end takes happens quickly and is destructive. Hopefully, you will not experience those issues like I did. $2800.00 caused by that part failure....
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Old 01-15-2014, 11:50 AM   #65
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This pump failure issue is getting frustrating! Sorry to hear you are now possibly dealing with it. Problem is, we don't REALY know why, is it cam issue, pump issue, wrong oil? There is just not a good control established to use for analysis. We all have some slightly different set up - oem parts, aftermarket parts, oils, tunes, and driving conditions. I am doing another cam swap now from a very mild cam to the more aggressive Night Fury. I will be using Lethals package including high flow Melling. I have been using Mobil 1 since my first swap. I am interested in seeing if the old cam shows any abnormal wear. At this point I think I will change oil brand. Who knows. All said, seems like rolling the dice with any choice. Hell, I'm paranoid at this point to start the car. I'm going to run it in the ditch watching the oil pressure gauge!
Lethal uses Mobil 1, and I did before the night fury cam install. But after my own research, I switched to Amsoil. Theres really no reason not to, Amsoil or other premium oils are, without a doubt, better. Not voodoo or anything.

Yes it costs more, but it lasts longer.
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Old 01-15-2014, 03:37 PM   #66
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Pretty sure my Pump failed this morning... waiting for a report from Matt at FSP once we get the car towed and down to him... Hoping its just a pump and easy fix and not the problems like some of the other guys on here had
Abrahams11SS,

Very sorry to hear about this happening (if that's indeed what failed). Feel free to send me a PM if you need assistance working with a GM dealer regarding this matter.

William R.
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Old 01-15-2014, 07:46 PM   #67
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We are now running and recommending the JGR Driven Racing Oil LS30 with the AC Delco PF48R Filter in all of our customers cars. It is designed specifically for the LS engine and it has high zinc content in a 5w30.




Driven Racing Oil - LS30 High Zinc Synthetic 5W30 Oil

Designed for high performance LS series engines, LS30 reduces oil consumption by limiting oil vaporization and foaming. It utilizes advanced mPAO synthetic base oils to reduce valve train noise and to provide high temperature and high shear protection for GM LS based engines with and without variable valve timing. LS30 delivers industry leading shear stability and HTHS bearing oil film thickness. Ideal for LS-based crate engines and supercharged LS performance engines as well as any performance engine that calls for a 5W-30 viscosity. Viscosity typical of 5W-30.
Product Features:

- High Temp High Shear Protection
- Friction Reducing Additives
- Meets Demands Of VVT System
- Reduced Consumption Via PCV

I think a good rule of thumb here is to change your oil every 3-5 months depending on driving habits or every 3000 miles. I change mine more regularly as my car get abused but it gives me piece of mind. I know GM is aware of the issue with the OEM pumps but I was told they think it isn't an issue. We're now using Melling pumps exclusively in our builds.

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Old 01-16-2014, 09:11 AM   #68
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Do you know/can you post the zinc/phos levels? It isn't on their site. How do they compare with say Valv VR1?
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