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Camaro Z/28 Forum - Z/28 Specific Topics Discussions related to the 5th gen Camaro Z/28 model

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Old 01-23-2014, 02:03 PM   #526
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OEM warranties are derived from validation. There isn't an aftermarket company that exists that tests to the standards of an OEM. Aftermarket companies set warranty based on their experience with a product and their level of confidence in a product. Companies like LPE have sufficient financial strength to back their warranty. On the OEM side, GM would have to fully validate a modified LS7 and there is no way it would be remotely close to cost effective.

If you think that the 5th Gen IRS puts power down more effectively through the corners than a C7 Corvette, you may also think a more powerful Z/28 could do something amazing at the Ring. TEAM Camaro and Chevy Performance could choose to take a modified LS7 in a Z/28 to the Ring with an off road / racing use only disclaimer IF they thought it would sell Chevy Performance heads, cam and ECM with 600 RWHP. No warranty. No EPA. Just bragging rights for the fastest car GM ever sent to the Ring. Not that any Chief Engineer at a Big Three company would ever think that way or that anyone from TEAM Camaro ever drops in to Camaro5.

Lowdown, have you started that thread yet
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Old 01-23-2014, 02:05 PM   #527
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From GM's announcement release:

The Z/28’s unique exterior is designed like a race car to produce downforce that presses the tires against the track for greater grip – up to 1.08 g in cornering acceleration – and faster lap times. The aerodynamically optimized design helped the Camaro Z/28 log a lap on Germany’s legendary Nürburgring road course that was four seconds faster than the Camaro ZL1’s and beat published times for the Porsche 911 Carrera S and the Lamborghini Murcielago LP640.

Power comes from the 7.0L LS7 engine, with dry-sump oiling, rated at an SAE-certified 505 horsepower (376 kW) and 481 lb-ft of torque (652 Nm). The engine will be built by hand at the new Performance Build Center within GM’s Bowling Green assembly plant.

A close-ratio six-speed manual transmission is the only transmission offered and power is distributed to the rear wheels via a Torsen limited-slip differential featuring a helical gear set, rather than traditional clutch packs, for optimal traction. The differential works in unison with Chevrolet’s proprietary Performance Traction Management system, allowing drivers to adjust the level of throttle and braking intervention to match their capability and driving environment.

The Camaro Z/28 is also one of the first production cars fitted with race-proven, spool-valve dampers, which allow four-way damping control, enabling engineers to precisely tune both bump and rebound settings for high-speed and low-speed wheel motions. The wider tuning range also allows dramatically greater damper stiffness without a significant change in ride quality. Additional chassis changes include stiffer spring and bushing rates for improved cornering response.

Lightweight, 19-inch forged aluminum wheels and Pirelli PZero Trofeo R tires reduce unsprung weight by 49.6 pounds (22.5 kilograms) per car compared to the 20-inch wheels standard on Camaro SS and ZL1.

The massive 305/30ZR19 PZero Trofeo R tires represent the first production-car application in the industry and are believed to be the widest front tire on any production car. To fully exploit their grip, the Z/28 also features Brembo Carbon Ceramic Matrix™ rotors and fixed, monoblock calipers. The large 394 x 36 mm front rotors are paired with six-piston calipers, while the 390 x 32 mm rear rotors are paired four-piston calipers. Compared to similar-size, two-piece steel rotors, the lightweight carbon discs save 28 pounds (12.5 kg) per car.

The combination of tire grip and braking power enable the Camaro Z/28 to achieve at least 1.5 g in deceleration. With standard front brake cooling ducts, the Z/28 is also capable of continuous track use.


I can't put my finger on it, at the moment, but I believe the WD = almost exactly 50-50.

4120 (ZL1 Curb) X 51.8% = 2134. Delete the blower and plumbing (and MRC), add the dry-sump (and Multimatics), delete 14 lb (brakes) and 24.8 lb (wheels/tires) and I suspect the Front weight will be near-1900 lb...on a 3827 Curb.
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Oh yeah absolutely: 40lb per corner of unsprung weight is huge! Remind me again what does it consist of? I thought wheels were about 10lb per corner and brakes less than that? Tires? Just curious.

My "inconsequential" comment was re lowering a ZL1 vis a vis its existing suspension.
Seek guidance from Pete...
When I was a youngen, a few decades ago, my mother told me to "look in the dictionary" when I'd ask her "how to spell" a word. In this case, I've supplied the "dictionary"...which was only a few posts above.
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Old 01-23-2014, 02:09 PM   #528
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Lowdown, have you started that thread yet
Pete, I'm still stuck with the "dictionary"...





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Old 01-23-2014, 02:20 PM   #529
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When I was a youngen, a few decades ago, my mother told me to "look in the dictionary" when I'd ask her "how to spell" a word. In this case, I've supplied the "dictionary"...which was only a few posts above.
I count (from your post) 77.9LB per car hence my ask for details on 40lb per corner re unsprung weight. BTW ZL1 can be purchased with stock wheels that are 12lb lighter each (not the Z/28 wheels but ZL1 specific ones offered from a factory). This would make the Z/28 unsprung mass about 30lb lighter than a ZL1 in total, if one sprung for optional wheels vs standard. Unless my 77.9LB total is incorrect?
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Old 01-23-2014, 02:25 PM   #530
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I count (from your post) 77.9LB per car hence my ask for details on 40lb per corner re unsprung weight. BTW ZL1 can be purchased with stock wheels that are 12lb lighter each (not the Z/28 wheels but ZL1 specific ones offered from a factory). This would make the Z/28 unsprung mass about 30lb lighter than a ZL1 in total, if one sprung for optional wheels vs standard. Unless my 77.9LB total is incorrect?
Actually, it's greater than that. First of all, GM's Curb rating is based on Base car, not "optioned" - up OR down. And, of course, MRC, for all is actual electro-mechanical marvels, is HEAVY...much heavier than the Multimatics, including wiring and controller (and NO, I don't have a precise measure of that difference, but someone may offer an idea). But the difference IN TOTAL (Base-to-Base) is nearly 40lb/corner...
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Old 01-23-2014, 03:24 PM   #531
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Actually, it's greater than that. First of all, GM's Curb rating is based on Base car, not "optioned" - up OR down. And, of course, MRC, for all is actual electro-mechanical marvels, is HEAVY...much heavier than the Multimatics, including wiring and controller (and NO, I don't have a precise measure of that difference, but someone may offer an idea). But the difference IN TOTAL (Base-to-Base) is nearly 40lb/corner...
If we are talking UNsprung mass, the only thing that can affect the base to base comparo is ZL1 optional wheels (which account for circa 48lb reduction of its unsprung mass, per car). There are no other options to consider in either car that would qualify. I also can't imagine the unsprung mass would differ by 160lb per car between them two. If that were to be correct, than 160 + 140 lighter motor would account for the TOTAL 300lb curb weight difference. Given they've reduced weight of other components (rear seat for example was 40+ lbs alone plus thinner rear window, lighter seats, no fog lamps, etc) this leaves me confused as to what you're suggesting.
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Old 01-23-2014, 03:53 PM   #532
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Almost 40 lb/corner, sprung and unsprung weight savings, IS very consequential...


At the OEM level of detail, I think you'll find that Stielow et al have really "sweat the small stuff"...
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If we are talking UNsprung mass, the only thing that can affect the base to base comparo is ZL1 optional wheels (which account for circa 48lb reduction of its unsprung mass, per car). There are no other options to consider in either car that would qualify. I also can't imagine the unsprung mass would differ by 160lb per car between them two. If that were to be correct, than 160 + 140 lighter motor would account for the TOTAL 300lb curb weight difference. Given they've reduced weight of other components (rear seat for example was 40+ lbs alone plus thinner rear window, lighter seats, no fog lamps, etc) this leaves me confused as to what you're suggesting.
The sprung AND unsprung weight differential, Base-to-Base per corner, approaches 40 lb. Wheels-tires-suspension-brakes.

Edited, and thanks.
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Old 01-23-2014, 03:59 PM   #533
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The sprung AND unsprung weight differential, Base-to-Base per corner, approaches 40 lb. Wheels-tires-suspension-brakes.

Edited, and thanks.
I get it now - thanks!
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Old 01-23-2014, 04:22 PM   #534
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And lest we forget: thanks to the Z/28, a ZL1 can now be driven off a GM dealer lot with Recaro seats and Z/28 rims/rubber

Perhaps you could share the source of the "fact" you can now order a ZL1 with Z/28 19" wheels and tires?!
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Old 01-23-2014, 04:35 PM   #535
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Perhaps you could share the source of the "fact" you can now order a ZL1 with Z/28 19" wheels and tires?!
"Now" as in "now that the Z/28 is here". I am expecting dealers to stock parts as they do for all cars they sell. And if not, being able to order them and install them on a Camaro of my choice (assuming they fit).
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Old 01-23-2014, 04:39 PM   #536
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"Now" as in "now that the Z/28 is here". I am expecting dealers to stock parts as they do for all cars they sell. And if not, being able to order them and install them on a Camaro of my choice (assuming they fit).
I doubt you would want to pay dealer prices for them to add to another Camaro. I bet they will be very expensive, you would be better off buying aftermarket.
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Old 01-23-2014, 04:43 PM   #537
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"Now" as in "now that the Z/28 is here". I am expecting dealers to stock parts as they do for all cars they sell. And if not, being able to order them and install them on a Camaro of my choice (assuming they fit).
Again, as the picker of nits as you've turned out to be, I'm sure you'd want to have that *disclaimer* CLEARLY cited so as NOT to confuse us Camaro comrades with the incorrect notion that such an option exists on the OEM order form.

Taking your notion to its logical extension, I guess we can get that Chev dealer to supply us with a Z/28.R as well. Only VIN'd and rustproofed/Scotchgarded, too...

I doubt Paul Sadlon will have a host of Z/28 rolling stock hanging from the Parts dep't rafters...
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Old 01-23-2014, 04:45 PM   #538
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I doubt you would want to pay dealer prices for them to add to another Camaro. I bet they will be very expensive, you would be better off buying aftermarket.
He's accustomed to paying BMW prices for things. GM's prices will be a bloody rare treat.
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Old 01-23-2014, 04:47 PM   #539
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He's accustomed to paying BMW prices for things. GM's prices will be a bloody rare treat.
LOL, I remember back when I had to replace two chrome 18" wheels on my Saturn Sky, it was $1500 just for the two of them, thank God that my insurance covered them.
I kept one of them and made an end table out of it for my den.
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Old 01-23-2014, 04:51 PM   #540
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He's accustomed to paying BMW prices for things. GM's prices will be a bloody rare treat.
Never owned a Bimmer. Extremely satisfied C5 Z06 owner here. Considering new purchase choices. Hence I am here. Not motivated by flashy slogans or gushy marketing. Don't like koolaid. Hence I am here. But I am starting to get a feeling I am at a wrong place...
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Old 01-23-2014, 04:54 PM   #541
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I doubt you would want to pay dealer prices for them to add to another Camaro. I bet they will be very expensive, you would be better off buying aftermarket.
Totally agree. Just making a point what can be purchased from GM dealer vs aftermarket for the purpose of comparing the 2 cars. I would have to be nuts to pay the dealer prices for rims not to mention tires!
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Old 01-23-2014, 05:01 PM   #542
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Again, as the picker of nits as you've turned out to be, I'm sure you'd want to have that *disclaimer* CLEARLY cited so as NOT to confuse us Camaro comrades with the incorrect notion that such an option exists on the OEM order form.

Taking your notion to its logical extension, I guess we can get that Chev dealer to supply us with a Z/28.R as well. Only VIN'd and rustproofed/Scotchgarded, too...

I doubt Paul Sadlon will have a host of Z/28 rolling stock hanging from the Parts dep't rafters...
You mean I have to have a disclaimer about expecting a dealer to carry/be able to order spare parts for a z/28?! Let's be serious and if you doubt dealers won't have key Z/28 parts on hand, then folks better not dream about taking their cars to a track. But I am sure the GM/dealer supply chain is smarter than that.
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Old 01-23-2014, 05:06 PM   #543
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Chevy Performance isn't Summit, but they absolutely want to be in the aftermarket parts business with parts out of production inventory. Oh wait, Becky and Maureen are already doing that at Rogers Chevrolet.
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Old 01-23-2014, 05:17 PM   #544
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Indeed, Pete, Rodgers will get you want you want/need in a flash. A "supplier of choice".
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Old 01-23-2014, 05:19 PM   #545
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So are you going to be able to get one Ofer?
As for the price i was thinking the car price was going to be more so the fact it only this price, gives me more to spend on mods.

In a word yes as sone as the dealer get the Allocation for the car.

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If you are comparing any two production cars you should only be comparing them as they come from the factory. Once you throw into the comparison, "If this car had ----- or this car had ----- the other car has", you are invalidating your comparison.
you got it.

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Why are some of you seemingly reacting so heavily to the question of tires on an otherwise stock ZL1? I fail to see why such harsh reactions to this relatively simple suggestion of a comparison are being made. I have a ZL1 and have no issue of which is top dog, even with tires. It's a reasonable question for an enthusiast looking to purchase a track car from the Chevy stable to ask. I think this site gets bashed by being un-objective at times and this appears to be one of those times. I'm as Chevy loyal as they come (4 new Chevrolets that I own) and have had nothing but GM for the past 25 years. This question of putting stickier tires on a ZL1 is rationale one for somebody looking to purchase a trackable Camaro. I'm fairly certain exploration of this question will not discredit the Z/28 or hurt sales in any way.
I love the ZL1 its a grate car, but i want a NA car, where i live and drive we get hot in the summer time, 120+ and no FI lives long when you run it hard in this temp.

That said, we or I am tired of members saying that the only way the Z/28 is faster is the tires, its not the tires, its the engineering that went in to this car, it was made to be a track car first, the ZL1 was made to be a FI car with all the bell's and whistle's.

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Why? Because ZL1 owners have been complaining that it isn't fair the Z/28 has better tires since the Z/28 was announced. If you want to improve the performance of your personal car, then that is fine but if you want the ZL1 to get the Z/28 tires in an attempt to beat a stock Z/28, then that is a whole different issue. You may not want to discredit the Z/28 but a lot of people came to this subforum posing the same question in an attempt to do so.
+1

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Why would the tires matter in recalibrating the suspension anyway? The car sits on top of the springs and shocks, sprung weight. That is what the ECU is reading along with the speed sensors. Just lowering the CG will not affect the Mag ride. If you lower it excessively then you have an issue. I lowered my ZL1 and have had no recalibration issues.
But you lost travel in the suspension by doing it that way, they did it with 1 in lower rims and tires.

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Agree: "bring what you got" from your local GM dealer! And no, you can't get more power there for either of the cars. And why should a car that already costs 50% more need any additional options? As to the "nose heavy" ZL1: its F/R axle weight distribution is: 51.8 to 48.2. What's Z/28's? If you know it pls post it as I can't find it. Thanks!
And they did that by adding more to the rear and front so it did not loss to much.

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"Now" as in "now that the Z/28 is here". I am expecting dealers to stock parts as they do for all cars they sell. And if not, being able to order them and install them on a Camaro of my choice (assuming they fit).

Good luck with that, i dont, it will take a law by congress to get the rims out of GM.
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Old 01-23-2014, 05:31 PM   #546
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Good luck with that, i dont, it will take a law by congress to get the rims out of GM.
Then all Zapper owners should really worry. I'd never buy a car if I couldn't get replacement parts for it easily. But let me make it simpler: ZL1 has optional wheels that weigh the same as the Z/28's (as far as I can tell based on its 2014 brochure). 285/305 tire combo aint bad given the car has more torque.
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Old 01-23-2014, 06:02 PM   #547
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Then all Zapper owners should really worry. I'd never buy a car if I couldn't get replacement parts for it easily. But let me make it simpler: ZL1 has optional wheels that weigh the same as the Z/28's (as far as I can tell based on its 2014 brochure). 285/305 tire combo aint bad given the car has more torque.
Staggered tire setups work great on a car like the Vette, lighter and closer to 50/50 weight distribution. The 5th Gen Camaro understeers from the factory due to nose weight, sway bars with staggered wheels and tires. The ZL1 was a huge step in 5th Gen development with revised mounting point for the rear bar and bar diameters (25mm front and 28mm rear). The 1LE is an improvement with the same size tires front and rear. The semi square wheel and tire setup was so neutral they increased the front bar diameter to 27mm to bring the bias back toward understeer. 305s all round give the 5th Gen enough stick to shine on a road course. 305/30/19s are the perfect size for the the 5th Gen. The lower CG combined with more front grip works incredibly well, not that I know anything about that

IMO, the Z/28 derived the greatest improvement in lap time with the 305/30/19 Trofeo fitment at the Ring. Those were working at the Ring. All the other Z/28 improvements didn't 'brake' as sweat. The faster you go (more RWHP) the better the Z/28 aero will work and contribute to lower lap times. The hotter the CF brakes get, the better they work. Lighter weight knows no speed limits. Better suspension is no different. I am not saying all the engineering that went into the Z/28 is not as important as the tire size and choice. I am saying that only the LS7 was breathing hard at the Ring and was run at the limit of capability.

You know if a well setup 5th Gen Camaro with over 600 RWHP went to the OPTIMA Invitational it just might beat, Porsche 911s, 850 RWHP ProTouring machines, 5th Gen Race cars... Can you imagine what a Z/28 would do with 600 RWHP
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Old 01-23-2014, 06:03 PM   #548
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Totally agree. Just making a point what can be purchased from GM dealer vs aftermarket for the purpose of comparing the 2 cars. I would have to be nuts to pay the dealer prices for rims not to mention tires!
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You mean I have to have a disclaimer about expecting a dealer to carry/be able to order spare parts for a z/28?! Let's be serious and if you doubt dealers won't have key Z/28 parts on hand, then folks better not dream about taking their cars to a track. But I am sure the GM/dealer supply chain is smarter than that.
Which course of action should our GM Parts friends adopt?
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Old 01-23-2014, 06:06 PM   #549
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Then all Zapper owners should really worry. I'd never buy a car if I couldn't get replacement parts for it easily. But let me make it simpler: ZL1 has optional wheels that weigh the same as the Z/28's (as far as I can tell based on its 2014 brochure). 285/305 tire combo aint bad given the car has more torque.
Incorrect...ass-u-me all you want, but that doesn't make it correct...
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Old 01-23-2014, 06:06 PM   #550
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Then all Zapper owners should really worry. I'd never buy a car if I couldn't get replacement parts for it easily. But let me make it simpler: ZL1 has optional wheels that weigh the same as the Z/28's (as far as I can tell based on its 2014 brochure). 285/305 tire combo aint bad given the car has more torque.
If you get a Z/28 you can get parts, there not going to sale rims if you dont have the car to start.
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