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Old 01-23-2014, 06:02 PM   #547
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Then all Zapper owners should really worry. I'd never buy a car if I couldn't get replacement parts for it easily. But let me make it simpler: ZL1 has optional wheels that weigh the same as the Z/28's (as far as I can tell based on its 2014 brochure). 285/305 tire combo aint bad given the car has more torque.
Staggered tire setups work great on a car like the Vette, lighter and closer to 50/50 weight distribution. The 5th Gen Camaro understeers from the factory due to nose weight, sway bars with staggered wheels and tires. The ZL1 was a huge step in 5th Gen development with revised mounting point for the rear bar and bar diameters (25mm front and 28mm rear). The 1LE is an improvement with the same size tires front and rear. The semi square wheel and tire setup was so neutral they increased the front bar diameter to 27mm to bring the bias back toward understeer. 305s all round give the 5th Gen enough stick to shine on a road course. 305/30/19s are the perfect size for the the 5th Gen. The lower CG combined with more front grip works incredibly well, not that I know anything about that

IMO, the Z/28 derived the greatest improvement in lap time with the 305/30/19 Trofeo fitment at the Ring. Those were working at the Ring. All the other Z/28 improvements didn't 'brake' as sweat. The faster you go (more RWHP) the better the Z/28 aero will work and contribute to lower lap times. The hotter the CF brakes get, the better they work. Lighter weight knows no speed limits. Better suspension is no different. I am not saying all the engineering that went into the Z/28 is not as important as the tire size and choice. I am saying that only the LS7 was breathing hard at the Ring and was run at the limit of capability.

You know if a well setup 5th Gen Camaro with over 600 RWHP went to the OPTIMA Invitational it just might beat, Porsche 911s, 850 RWHP ProTouring machines, 5th Gen Race cars... Can you imagine what a Z/28 would do with 600 RWHP
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Old 01-23-2014, 06:03 PM   #548
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Totally agree. Just making a point what can be purchased from GM dealer vs aftermarket for the purpose of comparing the 2 cars. I would have to be nuts to pay the dealer prices for rims not to mention tires!
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You mean I have to have a disclaimer about expecting a dealer to carry/be able to order spare parts for a z/28?! Let's be serious and if you doubt dealers won't have key Z/28 parts on hand, then folks better not dream about taking their cars to a track. But I am sure the GM/dealer supply chain is smarter than that.
Which course of action should our GM Parts friends adopt?
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Old 01-23-2014, 06:06 PM   #549
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Then all Zapper owners should really worry. I'd never buy a car if I couldn't get replacement parts for it easily. But let me make it simpler: ZL1 has optional wheels that weigh the same as the Z/28's (as far as I can tell based on its 2014 brochure). 285/305 tire combo aint bad given the car has more torque.
Incorrect...ass-u-me all you want, but that doesn't make it correct...
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Old 01-23-2014, 06:06 PM   #550
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Then all Zapper owners should really worry. I'd never buy a car if I couldn't get replacement parts for it easily. But let me make it simpler: ZL1 has optional wheels that weigh the same as the Z/28's (as far as I can tell based on its 2014 brochure). 285/305 tire combo aint bad given the car has more torque.
If you get a Z/28 you can get parts, there not going to sale rims if you dont have the car to start.
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Old 01-23-2014, 06:58 PM   #551
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Incorrect...ass-u-me all you want, but that doesn't make it correct...
Which part is incorrect? GM's ZL1 Brochure?
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Old 01-23-2014, 07:03 PM   #552
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Staggered tire setups work great on a car like the Vette, lighter and closer to 50/50 weight distribution. The 5th Gen Camaro understeers from the factory due to nose weight, sway bars with staggered wheels and tires. The ZL1 was a huge step in 5th Gen development with revised mounting point for the rear bar and bar diameters (25mm front and 28mm rear). The 1LE is an improvement with the same size tires front and rear. The semi square wheel and tire setup was so neutral they increased the front bar diameter to 27mm to bring the bias back toward understeer. 305s all round give the 5th Gen enough stick to shine on a road course. 305/30/19s are the perfect size for the the 5th Gen. The lower CG combined with more front grip works incredibly well, not that I know anything about that

IMO, the Z/28 derived the greatest improvement in lap time with the 305/30/19 Trofeo fitment at the Ring. Those were working at the Ring. All the other Z/28 improvements didn't 'brake' as sweat. The faster you go (more RWHP) the better the Z/28 aero will work and contribute to lower lap times. The hotter the CF brakes get, the better they work. Lighter weight knows no speed limits. Better suspension is no different. I am not saying all the engineering that went into the Z/28 is not as important as the tire size and choice. I am saying that only the LS7 was breathing hard at the Ring and was run at the limit of capability.

You know if a well setup 5th Gen Camaro with over 600 RWHP went to the OPTIMA Invitational it just might beat, Porsche 911s, 850 RWHP ProTouring machines, 5th Gen Race cars... Can you imagine what a Z/28 would do with 600 RWHP
Excellent info - objective and to the point - thank you! Indeed if the Zapper had 600HP I could justify its price and likely get one. At this stage however, C7 751 can't be beat as a tremendous offer.
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Old 01-23-2014, 07:08 PM   #553
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Which course of action should our GM Parts friends adopt?
A no brainer: GM dealers - for those that think the Z/28 is a good value at 75Gs and those wishing to keep their rides unmodded and OEM. Aftermarket - for those that care about lap times and would rather spend $ on track fees and consumables. Both - to offer better choice to consumers.
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Old 01-23-2014, 07:10 PM   #554
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Which part is incorrect? GM's ZL1 Brochure?
A 19" forged aluminum Z/28 wheel and it's corresponding 19" Trofeo tire weigh LESS than a 20" forged aluminum ZL1 wheel and it's corresponding GY tires...
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Old 01-23-2014, 07:15 PM   #555
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A no brainer: GM dealers - for those that think the Z/28 is a good value at 75Gs and those wishing to keep their rides unmodded and OEM. Aftermarket - for those that care about lap times and would rather spend $ on track fees and consumables. Both - to offer better choice to consumers.
You managed to set the record for Most Posts In The $75,000 Thread. Now, your focus is to do the same, with tail-chasing contradictions, in THIS thread too?

Good Luck with that...

How's the weather in Barrie?
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Old 01-23-2014, 09:53 PM   #556
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You managed to set the record for Most Posts In The $75,000 Thread. Now, your focus is to do the same, with tail-chasing contradictions, in THIS thread too?

Good Luck with that...

How's the weather in Barrie?
To avoid chasing my tail and setting new thread records, I will offer Justice Pete's quote that does a much better job of expressing my thoughts on tires and power. Fortunately he has managed to capture it in a single post vs countless of mine. The bottom line is the same:

"IMO, the Z/28 derived the greatest improvement in lap time with the 305/30/19 Trofeo fitment at the Ring. Those were working at the Ring. All the other Z/28 improvements didn't 'brake' as sweat. The faster you go (more RWHP) the better the Z/28 aero will work and contribute to lower lap times. The hotter the CF brakes get, the better they work. Lighter weight knows no speed limits. Better suspension is no different. I am not saying all the engineering that went into the Z/28 is not as important as the tire size and choice. I am saying that only the LS7 was breathing hard at the Ring and was run at the limit of capability.

You know if a well setup 5th Gen Camaro with over 600 RWHP went to the OPTIMA Invitational it just might beat, Porsche 911s, 850 RWHP ProTouring machines, 5th Gen Race cars... Can you imagine what a Z/28 would do with 600 RWHP"
_
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Old 01-23-2014, 10:11 PM   #557
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Incorrect...ass-u-me all you want, but that doesn't make it correct...
Yes the assumptions and truth b(reak)ending are over the top!
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Old 01-24-2014, 07:40 AM   #558
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"Now" as in "now that the Z/28 is here". I am expecting dealers to stock parts as they do for all cars they sell. And if not, being able to order them and install them on a Camaro of my choice (assuming they fit).
As soon as you essentially go aftermarket, why would you stop at 305/xx and 11"/11.5"? Particularly when Hoosiers in either A6 or R6 are available in 325 and 345 widths in 19"? People are running 315/30-18's on the lighter Mustangs as it is, and there are a few complaints that it's still not enough tire.


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Old 01-24-2014, 12:04 PM   #559
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Yes the assumptions and truth b(reak)ending are over the top!
You are correct, I've used a wrong term: should have said rim vs wheel - my apologies - it was not intentional.

Based on the rim weight info I could find, ZL1 5 spoke rims are 11lb lighter then 10 spoke black rims. So it would make the front 5 spoke rim weigh less than 25lb (black ones weight 27). Z/28 rims appear to be in the same range based on posted shipping weight. ZL1 Rears would be a bit heavier as they are wider than fronts.
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Old 01-24-2014, 12:16 PM   #560
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As soon as you essentially go aftermarket, why would you stop at 305/xx and 11"/11.5"? Particularly when Hoosiers in either A6 or R6 are available in 325 and 345 widths in 19"? People are running 315/30-18's on the lighter Mustangs as it is, and there are a few complaints that it's still not enough tire.


Norm
I've tried to keep both at an OEM/or at least within what you've suggested as a "stock" definition to have as much a level playing field comparo as possible.
I am unsure what else to suggest other than running one car on streets and another car on r-comps doesn't make it a fair *track* comparo to any *track enthusiast* except the manufacturer marketing purposes.
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