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Camaro Z/28 Forum - Z/28 Specific Topics Discussions related to the 5th gen Camaro Z/28 model

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Old 01-23-2014, 06:58 PM   #551
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Incorrect...ass-u-me all you want, but that doesn't make it correct...
Which part is incorrect? GM's ZL1 Brochure?
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Old 01-23-2014, 07:03 PM   #552
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Staggered tire setups work great on a car like the Vette, lighter and closer to 50/50 weight distribution. The 5th Gen Camaro understeers from the factory due to nose weight, sway bars with staggered wheels and tires. The ZL1 was a huge step in 5th Gen development with revised mounting point for the rear bar and bar diameters (25mm front and 28mm rear). The 1LE is an improvement with the same size tires front and rear. The semi square wheel and tire setup was so neutral they increased the front bar diameter to 27mm to bring the bias back toward understeer. 305s all round give the 5th Gen enough stick to shine on a road course. 305/30/19s are the perfect size for the the 5th Gen. The lower CG combined with more front grip works incredibly well, not that I know anything about that

IMO, the Z/28 derived the greatest improvement in lap time with the 305/30/19 Trofeo fitment at the Ring. Those were working at the Ring. All the other Z/28 improvements didn't 'brake' as sweat. The faster you go (more RWHP) the better the Z/28 aero will work and contribute to lower lap times. The hotter the CF brakes get, the better they work. Lighter weight knows no speed limits. Better suspension is no different. I am not saying all the engineering that went into the Z/28 is not as important as the tire size and choice. I am saying that only the LS7 was breathing hard at the Ring and was run at the limit of capability.

You know if a well setup 5th Gen Camaro with over 600 RWHP went to the OPTIMA Invitational it just might beat, Porsche 911s, 850 RWHP ProTouring machines, 5th Gen Race cars... Can you imagine what a Z/28 would do with 600 RWHP
Excellent info - objective and to the point - thank you! Indeed if the Zapper had 600HP I could justify its price and likely get one. At this stage however, C7 751 can't be beat as a tremendous offer.
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Old 01-23-2014, 07:08 PM   #553
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Which course of action should our GM Parts friends adopt?
A no brainer: GM dealers - for those that think the Z/28 is a good value at 75Gs and those wishing to keep their rides unmodded and OEM. Aftermarket - for those that care about lap times and would rather spend $ on track fees and consumables. Both - to offer better choice to consumers.
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Old 01-23-2014, 07:10 PM   #554
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Which part is incorrect? GM's ZL1 Brochure?
A 19" forged aluminum Z/28 wheel and it's corresponding 19" Trofeo tire weigh LESS than a 20" forged aluminum ZL1 wheel and it's corresponding GY tires...
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Old 01-23-2014, 07:15 PM   #555
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A no brainer: GM dealers - for those that think the Z/28 is a good value at 75Gs and those wishing to keep their rides unmodded and OEM. Aftermarket - for those that care about lap times and would rather spend $ on track fees and consumables. Both - to offer better choice to consumers.
You managed to set the record for Most Posts In The $75,000 Thread. Now, your focus is to do the same, with tail-chasing contradictions, in THIS thread too?

Good Luck with that...

How's the weather in Barrie?
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Old 01-23-2014, 09:53 PM   #556
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You managed to set the record for Most Posts In The $75,000 Thread. Now, your focus is to do the same, with tail-chasing contradictions, in THIS thread too?

Good Luck with that...

How's the weather in Barrie?
To avoid chasing my tail and setting new thread records, I will offer Justice Pete's quote that does a much better job of expressing my thoughts on tires and power. Fortunately he has managed to capture it in a single post vs countless of mine. The bottom line is the same:

"IMO, the Z/28 derived the greatest improvement in lap time with the 305/30/19 Trofeo fitment at the Ring. Those were working at the Ring. All the other Z/28 improvements didn't 'brake' as sweat. The faster you go (more RWHP) the better the Z/28 aero will work and contribute to lower lap times. The hotter the CF brakes get, the better they work. Lighter weight knows no speed limits. Better suspension is no different. I am not saying all the engineering that went into the Z/28 is not as important as the tire size and choice. I am saying that only the LS7 was breathing hard at the Ring and was run at the limit of capability.

You know if a well setup 5th Gen Camaro with over 600 RWHP went to the OPTIMA Invitational it just might beat, Porsche 911s, 850 RWHP ProTouring machines, 5th Gen Race cars... Can you imagine what a Z/28 would do with 600 RWHP"
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Old 01-23-2014, 10:11 PM   #557
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Incorrect...ass-u-me all you want, but that doesn't make it correct...
Yes the assumptions and truth b(reak)ending are over the top!
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Old 01-24-2014, 07:40 AM   #558
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"Now" as in "now that the Z/28 is here". I am expecting dealers to stock parts as they do for all cars they sell. And if not, being able to order them and install them on a Camaro of my choice (assuming they fit).
As soon as you essentially go aftermarket, why would you stop at 305/xx and 11"/11.5"? Particularly when Hoosiers in either A6 or R6 are available in 325 and 345 widths in 19"? People are running 315/30-18's on the lighter Mustangs as it is, and there are a few complaints that it's still not enough tire.


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Old 01-24-2014, 12:04 PM   #559
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Yes the assumptions and truth b(reak)ending are over the top!
You are correct, I've used a wrong term: should have said rim vs wheel - my apologies - it was not intentional.

Based on the rim weight info I could find, ZL1 5 spoke rims are 11lb lighter then 10 spoke black rims. So it would make the front 5 spoke rim weigh less than 25lb (black ones weight 27). Z/28 rims appear to be in the same range based on posted shipping weight. ZL1 Rears would be a bit heavier as they are wider than fronts.
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Old 01-24-2014, 12:16 PM   #560
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As soon as you essentially go aftermarket, why would you stop at 305/xx and 11"/11.5"? Particularly when Hoosiers in either A6 or R6 are available in 325 and 345 widths in 19"? People are running 315/30-18's on the lighter Mustangs as it is, and there are a few complaints that it's still not enough tire.


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I've tried to keep both at an OEM/or at least within what you've suggested as a "stock" definition to have as much a level playing field comparo as possible.
I am unsure what else to suggest other than running one car on streets and another car on r-comps doesn't make it a fair *track* comparo to any *track enthusiast* except the manufacturer marketing purposes.
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Old 01-24-2014, 12:32 PM   #561
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ZL1 wheel weights.

http://www.camaro5.com/forums/showthread.php?t=219198
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Old 01-24-2014, 12:35 PM   #562
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I am unsure what else to suggest other than running one car on streets and another car on r-comps doesn't make it a fair *track* comparo to any *track enthusiast* except the manufacturer marketing purposes.
It's a slippery slope.

Suppose the ABS calibration for four equal size Trofeos is different than for staggered GY G;2's (and I'm betting that it is). Do we then have to rework the Trofeo-shod ZL1's ABS so that the Trofeos would be equally effective under braking on the ZL1 as they are on the Z/28?

Where does it stop?


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Old 01-24-2014, 12:46 PM   #563
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It's a slippery slope.

Suppose the ABS calibration for four equal size Trofeos is different than for staggered GY G;2's (and I'm betting that it is). Do we then have to rework the Trofeo-shod ZL1's ABS so that the Trofeos would be equally effective under braking on the ZL1 as they are on the Z/28?

Where does it stop?


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Don't know of ABS differences between a Camaro vs Vette, but on the latter (C5) one can run anything from 265 to 315, square or staggered without any issues at all. Folks run different size wheel/tire/compound combos for track vs street on many cars without running into ABS issues. It might not be 100% optimized, but it works well enough for faster lap times.
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Old 01-24-2014, 01:00 PM   #564
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Thanks for the link. Looking at a 2014 ZL1 brochure it lists a 5 spoke "bright" rim (the same as "polished" in the thread?), which according to the Registry are 11lb lighter vs the black which are also available on the SS. This of course doesn't match the actual test in the thread...so now I understand why folks issued the "ass-u-me"...comment. Is it possible that 2014 5 spokes are different from prior years? I wish the manufactureres would include such weights right in the brochures in the first place.
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Old 01-24-2014, 04:29 PM   #565
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You are correct, I've used a wrong term:

Easily done, but not much fun to have your feet held to the fire over it...is it?

Based on the rim weight info I could find, ZL1 5 spoke rims are 11lb lighter then 10 spoke black rims. So it would make the front 5 spoke rim weigh less than 25lb (black ones weight 27). Z/28 rims appear to be in the same range based on posted shipping weight. ZL1 Rears would be a bit heavier as they are wider than fronts.
Wrong...again... BOTH are forged aluminum, and of very similar weight. They ARE, however, substantially lighter than the CAST aluminum 20s found on the SS...

...and just so you don't spend endless hours PROVING this statement, ALL weights showing reduction are, in fact, based against the CAST 20s on the SS... which is considered the BASE V8 car against which the ZL1 and Z/28 are off-shots. Other +s and -s are generally, unless specifically noted, against the SS as well.

On the ZL1, '14 wheels are '12-'13 carryover...that means "the same"...
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Old 01-24-2014, 04:52 PM   #566
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"Easily done" indeed, given even a GM brochure lists rim sizes as "wheels". And yes, not too much fun! Oh well...
Also, on my 11lb comment...according to the ZL1 GM site, it is a difference between the SS and ZL1....TIRES! Oh well...so much for accurancy of data on on other "official" sites...
Given all of the above, I do have to retract my "claims", as they are factually incorrect regarding ZL1 rims being as light as Z/28's.
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Old 01-24-2014, 04:55 PM   #567
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Thanks for the link. Looking at a 2014 ZL1 brochure it lists a 5 spoke "bright" rim (the same as "polished" in the thread?), which according to the Registry are 11lb lighter vs the black which are also available on the SS. This of course doesn't match the actual test in the thread...so now I understand why folks issued the "ass-u-me"...comment. Is it possible that 2014 5 spokes are different from prior years? I wish the manufactureres would include such weights right in the brochures in the first place.
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Old 01-24-2014, 05:04 PM   #568
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Part of the problem occurs when brochure writers are given sketchy data, or misinterpret what they do receive. Proof-reading at a consistently high level would be helpful...for ALL manufacturers. THAT is why the little disclaimer statement, at the bottom of the last page, exists.

Also, near-graduates of the Evelyn Wood Speed-Reading course may be a little too hasty to fully grasp what is being shared...
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Old 02-10-2014, 07:24 PM   #569
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Old 02-18-2014, 12:33 AM   #570
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You mean I have to have a disclaimer about expecting a dealer to carry/be able to order spare parts for a z/28?! Let's be serious and if you doubt dealers won't have key Z/28 parts on hand, then folks better not dream about taking their cars to a track. But I am sure the GM/dealer supply chain is smarter than that.
You're giving dealerships to much credit for what they keep on hand. You'll be amazed how often you'll hear "we'll have to order it"

If ss parts aren't sitting on the shelves z/28 parts won't be either.
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Old 02-28-2014, 07:09 AM   #571
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The trim piece on the steering wheel on some shots seems black instead of the silver on SS and ZL1
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Old 02-28-2014, 03:12 PM   #572
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The trim piece on the steering wheel on some shots seems black instead of the silver on SS and ZL1
I believe the interior trim is all black with metallic.
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Old 02-28-2014, 03:20 PM   #573
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Can we get this back on track to the Z/28 at the Ring? Every time I see a new post here, I hope it's to report the dry lap time.
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Old 02-28-2014, 03:23 PM   #574
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Can we get this back on track to the Z/28 at the Ring? Every time I see a new post here, I hope it's to report the dry lap time.
You and me brother, but it is still cold wet weather there.
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Old 03-04-2014, 04:45 PM   #575
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Can we get this back on track to the Z/28 at the Ring? Every time I see a new post here, I hope it's to report the dry lap time.
I think I watched a video (i think a McLaren video)

where he mentioned its like a 2 year wait list to get on the Ring due to all the races, track days, etc.

what supports this claim is why they actually did it in the rain, why not wait for clear weather.

so i doubt a dry time will come.
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