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Old 02-15-2014, 02:52 PM   #51
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Hi !

We did the LF3 last year in XTS and last month in CTS-V Sport .... stock trq in CTS-V Sport is way higher then XTS but both same engine power ... got 420PS engine power and nearly 500PS engine power with 91 okt Arizona pump fuel .... by IPF ... but gearbox Tuning was nessesary to have perfect drivebility on the road !

torque you can increase at this engines up to the moon ... but if the drivetrain can handle it ... thats the big question !

any request for LF3 Tuning send to our IPF-Tuning staff !

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Old 02-15-2014, 02:52 PM   #52
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That graph looks all jacked up?
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Old 02-15-2014, 03:21 PM   #53
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Hi !

thats the dynojet drum sensor Signal fault that is causing that big 40WHP spike upwards ... so the poor vehicle was running in limp mode from what the graph Shows !

I know that Problem because we also have a dynojet .... when i see such Spikes .. i do the dyno run again !!

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Old 03-02-2014, 11:21 AM   #54
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Originally Posted by RacnJsn95 View Post
Another interesting thing to point out... The LF3 engine has dual MAF sensors in the factory airbox. I don't think it would be an issue to work around that in a custom adaptation of the turbo parts though...

Another crazy thought I had... I wonder if any gains could be had if a guy was to just run the LF3 intake N/A, along with the intercoolers to cool incoming air? An external reservoir of water could be run for the intercoolers, toss some ice in it for some REALLY cool air... Move the IAT into the center of the LF3 intake... Not sure if it would be worth while or not?
Could something be fabricated that ran off the AC compressor for an N/A build? Instead of ice, just flip a switch.
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Old 03-10-2014, 08:39 PM   #55
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Looks like the LF3 rods are .06" shorter than the LFX rods. Crank rod journal size is the same, stroke is the same... I imagine the deck height on the block is the same, but not sure. I think what's changed is that the pin height in the piston has been moved down.

LFX rods 6.000"
LF3 rods 5.940"

Below here is just theorizing:
I don't imagine that GM would run .06 in the hole to lower the compression. I imagine you'd want to try and keep the same piston to block deck height as the LFX currently has if you wanted to run the LF3 rods. So if you wanted to use the LF3 rods, I think you would have to either run the LF3 piston as well, OR get some custom pistons made... Again, just theories, other than the rods being shorter, that's really all I KNOW.

More info; I see everyone boasting about the LARGE VALVES in the LF3 heads! According to the info I have here, both the LFX and the LF3 share the same size valves. Both LFX and LF3 are listed as having a valve head diameter of 30.470-30.730 EXH, and 38.170-38.430 INT... The only difference I can see is that the exhaust valves are sodium filled.

Now here is something interesting, the cams:

LFX valve lift is .4252ex/.4252int
LF3 valve lift is .4332ex/.4309int

Since they are VVT cams, and overlap is really dependent on the tune and the actuators, I'm wondering if these cams might be a decent upgrade for the LFX... Unfortunately I do not have the duration info on either the LFX or LF3 cams, so it would be tough to say if it would be worth it to swap a set in or not.

That's all I have for now.
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Old 03-10-2014, 08:46 PM   #56
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Quote:
Originally Posted by RacnJsn95 View Post
Looks like the LF3 rods are .06" shorter than the LFX rods. Crank rod journal size is the same, stroke is the same... I imagine the deck height on the block is the same, but not sure. I think what's changed is that the pin height in the piston has been moved down.

LFX rods 6.000"
LF3 rods 5.940"

Below here is just theorizing:
I don't imagine that GM would run .06 in the hole to lower the compression. I imagine you'd want to try and keep the same piston to block deck height as the LFX currently has if you wanted to run the LF3 rods. So if you wanted to use the LF3 rods, I think you would have to either run the LF3 piston as well, OR get some custom pistons made... Again, just theories, other than the rods being shorter, that's really all I KNOW.

More info; I see everyone boasting about the LARGE VALVES in the LF3 heads! According to the info I have here, both the LFX and the LF3 share the same size valves. Both LFX and LF3 are listed as having a valve head diameter of 30.470-30.730 EXH, and 38.170-38.430 INT... The only difference I can see is that the exhaust valves are sodium filled.

Now here is something interesting, the cams:

LFX valve lift is .4252ex/.4252int
LF3 valve lift is .4332ex/.4309int

Since they are VVT cams, and overlap is really dependent on the tune and the actuators, I'm wondering if these cams might be a decent upgrade for the LFX... Unfortunately I do not have the duration info on either the LFX or LF3 cams, so it would be tough to say if it would be worth it to swap a set in or not.

That's all I have for now.
Good stuff. I noticed the lf3 max rpm is lower? Any theories here? "Boost regulation?"
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Old 03-10-2014, 10:18 PM   #57
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Honestly, I have never seen a boosted vehicle rev higher than it's N/A counterpart...
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Old 03-10-2014, 10:23 PM   #58
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Quote:
Originally Posted by RacnJsn95 View Post

More info; I see everyone boasting about the LARGE VALVES in the LF3 heads! According to the info I have here, both the LFX and the LF3 share the same size valves. Both LFX and LF3 are listed as having a valve head diameter of 30.470-30.730 EXH, and 38.170-38.430 INT... The only difference I can see is that the exhaust valves are sodium filled.
I believe this point is emphasized because it has the same "LARGE" valves as the LFX, which were bigger than the outgoing LLT. My .02
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Old 03-10-2014, 10:36 PM   #59
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DSX_Camaro View Post
I believe this point is emphasized because it has the same "LARGE" valves as the LFX, which were bigger than the outgoing LLT. My .02
I had never seen a size mentioned when the LFX replaced the LLT, just "larger"...

http://www.gmpowertrain.com/VehicleE...nProducts.aspx

They way I perceive it is that the LF3 has even larger valves than the LFX... But idk. Having not known the LFX valve sizes before, and reading about the LARGE LF3 valves, I thought it was something special...
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Old 03-10-2014, 10:48 PM   #60
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I just had it up, I'll see if I can find it again. The LLT valves are supposedly like 36.96mm while the LFX is stated to be 38.3mm, IIRC

And I admit, I was excited too. I too thought the LF3 would have larger intake and / or exhaust valves, which would be a huge bolt on mod for LFX guys.
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Old 03-10-2014, 11:28 PM   #61
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DSX_Camaro View Post
I just had it up, I'll see if I can find it again. The LLT valves are supposedly like 36.96mm while the LFX is stated to be 38.3mm, IIRC

And I admit, I was excited too. I too thought the LF3 would have larger intake and / or exhaust valves, which would be a huge bolt on mod for LFX guys.
I did manage to find it... 1 our of 5 websites that talked about "The NEW LFX Engine" did have it.

Numbers wise, I don't see very much that's different between the LF3 and the LFX in this tech document, even though I know there are several changes.
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Old 03-10-2014, 11:59 PM   #62
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Hopefully you're on to something with the cams, if nothing else. Hopefully that would be a worthwhile mod... Hopefully.
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Old 03-11-2014, 08:14 AM   #63
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Thanks for the info on the rods! I'm happy that the crank journal is the same size. I would love to run the new rods and pistons once I find out a 100% fitment.
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Old 03-11-2014, 09:07 AM   #64
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Quote:
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Thanks for the info on the rods! I'm happy that the crank journal is the same size. I would love to run the new rods and pistons once I find out a 100% fitment.
No problem. It looks like they rods would be a direct swap if they were the same length. Same width, pin size, and journal size as the LFX rods. I bet the pistons will also work. I don't see anything different about the head valve angles. Unfortunately I don't have a part number or prices on pistons or rods yet.
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Old 03-11-2014, 10:20 AM   #65
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I don't know if it's been stated yet, but it looks like the heads are different in respect to the throttle body location, so you'd probably need an LF3 head conversion to use the intake manifold... and the throttle bodies need to be checked to see if they are the same or different.
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Old 03-11-2014, 11:41 AM   #66
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I don't know if it's been stated yet, but it looks like the heads are different in respect to the throttle body location, so you'd probably need an LF3 head conversion to use the intake manifold... and the throttle bodies need to be checked to see if they are the same or different.
From watching the animated assembly videos, and looking at diagrams, I see nothing different about the heads that wouldn't let the LF3 intake manifold bolt onto the LFX heads. Where the throttle body attaches to on the intake manifold is irrelevant I believe.

Again, theory. No one will know until someone tries it.

I would imagine the throttle bodies themselves are at the very least, a different casting. I'm hoping they use similar electronics that can work with the LFX's current TB controls.

I'll start slowly buying some of the key LF3 pieces once my LFX test motor shows up and confirm fitment as pieces show up.
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Old 03-11-2014, 12:22 PM   #67
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I see what you're saying now. Hopefully you're right... LF3 manifold conversion (of course, with a custom intake at that point, lest you run the turbos) would be a decent upgrade.
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Old 03-11-2014, 01:53 PM   #68
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I figure the pistons would work. The next battle is the LF3 heads and if they are needed with the pistons or not. Then of course there is shaking the ol' money tree.
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Old 03-11-2014, 04:15 PM   #69
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Thanks for the info on the rods! I'm happy that the crank journal is the same size. I would love to run the new rods and pistons once I find out a 100% fitment.
+1

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Old 03-11-2014, 07:20 PM   #70
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More part numbers and prices!

Connecting Rod 12641607 list $42.31 ea
Crankshaft 12642339 list $699.82 ea
Piston (L side) 12641602 list $105.12 ea
Piston (R side) 12641603 list $105.12 ea
Cam (L, EXH) 12641987 list $132.01 ea
Cam (R, EXH) 12641988 list $123.15 ea
Cam (L, INT) 12638172 list $103.51 ea
Cam (R, INT) 12638173 list $101.09 ea
Exh Valve 12637879 list $18.33 ea (Sodium Filled)
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Old 03-11-2014, 07:24 PM   #71
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Quote:
Originally Posted by RacnJsn95 View Post
More part numbers and prices!

Connecting Rod 12641607 list $42.31 ea
Crankshaft 12642339 list $699.82 ea
Piston (L side) 12641602 list $105.12 ea
Piston (R side) 12641603 list $105.12 ea
Cam (L, EXH) 12641987 list $132.01 ea
Cam (R, EXH) 12641988 list $123.15 ea
Cam (L, INT) 12638172 list $103.51 ea
Cam (R, INT) 12638173 list $101.09 ea
Exh Valve 12637879 list $18.33 ea (Sodium Filled)
no way.
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Old 03-11-2014, 09:55 PM   #72
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Great prices!
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Old 03-12-2014, 12:45 AM   #73
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Quote:
Originally Posted by RacnJsn95 View Post
More part numbers and prices!

Connecting Rod 12641607 list $42.31 ea
Crankshaft 12642339 list $699.82 ea
Piston (L side) 12641602 list $105.12 ea
Piston (R side) 12641603 list $105.12 ea
Cam (L, EXH) 12641987 list $132.01 ea
Cam (R, EXH) 12641988 list $123.15 ea
Cam (L, INT) 12638172 list $103.51 ea
Cam (R, INT) 12638173 list $101.09 ea
Exh Valve 12637879 list $18.33 ea (Sodium Filled)
Well now I know how much my next major mod is going to cost. Go LF3 for LLT pistons lol.


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Old 03-12-2014, 08:23 AM   #74
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I'm debating whether the cams are worth adding to the build and is there if any worth to the exhaust valves ( it was stated that the valves were the same size LFX:LF3, right?). I'm going to run out of fuel sooner or later so there is only so much that can be done before that happens.

Side note: it's interesting how each cam is a different price.
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Old 03-12-2014, 10:11 AM   #75
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Well I figured I might as well start out with some of the easy stuff... I just ordered the TB harness, and TB, as well as one LF3 exhaust valve and 1 LFX exhaust valve so I can compare/weigh them.
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