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Camaro Z/28 Forum - Z/28 Specific Topics Discussions related to the 5th gen Camaro Z/28 model

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Old 02-19-2014, 11:13 AM   #26
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Originally Posted by Dropspeed View Post
On a race car you tune the suspension with the spring rates and the sway bars are used to fine tune. At some shorter tighter tracks (Waterford Hills in MI) some races discount the sway bars. For the street the OEM have to compromise the best of both worlds which usually means a softer springs with a larger bar (1LE)

The Z/28 is a "no compromise" track car that will be driving on the street.....so stiffer spings combined with the DSSV dampers will be doing the job and smaller sway bars can be used.



Eaton Trutrac and JTekts Torsen diff are of the same design......Both should work the same.



That is a general marketing statement......It depends on the trim and options.

If it does weigh in at 3820 that is withing 3lbs of my 1LE with a 1/4 tank of fuel (1ss/non RS, no sunroof)



Having driven a couple cars with Carbon Ceramic brakes on track (ZR1 / Ferrari) The inital stopping distance when cold is not the greatest result of feel from the them (relatively speaking as it best most) What is impressive is how they get better (short, better bite) when hot and then continue to be consistent lap after lap.



-Matt

To the last point, anyone not familiar with cold ceramics should be advised not to push the car with cold brakes. You will not enjoy that braking bad moment.
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Old 02-19-2014, 12:42 PM   #27
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Old 02-19-2014, 08:21 PM   #28
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Didn't Motortrend stop a 1LE from 60-0 in 101ft?



Speaking of which, I'm surprised that the Z28 is only 55lb lighter then a SS, even taking into consideration its increased mass on certain components for structural rigidity, etc.
This link claims as much, http://www.motortrend.com/roadtests/...le_first_test/

HOWEVER, I find it hard to believe a 1LE brakes from 60 in 20 ft less than its SS brother. + based on that math the Z/28 should brake under 95 ft, which I'm sorry isn't going to happen. Motortrends fastest braking car they have tested was the 2011 Corvette Z06 Carbon edition which stopped in 93 ft. That car had the same, or close to size ceramic brakes as the Z/28 will have and it weighed a good 600 lbs less. So I do not see a sub 95 ft brake from 60 mph happening.
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Old 02-19-2014, 09:53 PM   #29
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People need to stop making fun of my gal. Sure, she's big-boned and a little heavy in the rear -- but she knows how to dance…

Because of the brakes and Trofeo Rs, my prediction from 60mph to 0mph is 103 feet.
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Old 02-19-2014, 09:57 PM   #30
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This link claims as much, http://www.motortrend.com/roadtests/...le_first_test/

HOWEVER, I find it hard to believe a 1LE brakes from 60 in 20 ft less than its SS brother. + based on that math the Z/28 should brake under 95 ft, which I'm sorry isn't going to happen. Motortrends fastest braking car they have tested was the 2011 Corvette Z06 Carbon edition which stopped in 93 ft. That car had the same, or close to size ceramic brakes as the Z/28 will have and it weighed a good 600 lbs less. So I do not see a sub 95 ft brake from 60 mph happening.
You forgot to mention tires! The 1LE has a wider patch, and stickier compound out of the box, over its SS bother.

Nose dive and suspension dynamics also play a role in this.

As for the math, it's not a direct proportion in the formula .
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Old 02-20-2014, 06:57 AM   #31
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Getting back to the brakes - how quickly do you all think they will need to be replaced and how much will a new set of them run?
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Old 02-20-2014, 07:26 AM   #32
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I have got to get my hands on that wickerbill!
If you run the wickerbill you will also want the chin spoiler...It will create enough down force in the rear that the front will have lift at speed.


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Getting back to the brakes - how quickly do you all think they will need to be replaced and how much will a new set of them run?
Just look at the prices for the Corvette ZR1 CC brake parts...Front rotors sell for $1700 each online.
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Old 02-20-2014, 08:10 AM   #33
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Getting back to the brakes - how quickly do you all think they will need to be replaced and how much will a new set of them run?
It was stated here somewhere that GM says the rotors should last 90,000 miles of street driving. What that translates to with tracking the car I don't know.
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Old 02-20-2014, 08:45 AM   #34
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From GM:

12. No Air conditioning
Because the Z/28 is intended for the track, air conditioning was deemed non-essential component. The deletion saved 12.9 kilograms <28.4 LBS>. Air conditioning is available as an option.

The weight reduction in practice is going to be much less. Go look at the forum posts from most of the people.

Example: http://www.camaro5.com/forums/showthread.php?t=338803

Of those that have an official placed order most are adding AC and quite a few are adding the Stereo back into the car. The AC is 12.9 kg or 28.4 Lbs. Assume the additional speakers add no weight many Z28 will only have a 26.6 Lbs. weight difference and most likely the difference will be less.

I know the follow opinion will not be popular.... (pulls on fireproof underwear)

This car is cool but really not impressed with the weigh savings. Buy as a collector car but for the $$$ it is not a great value for much anything else.

Track car only I would buy a 1LE... remove the AC... cam/ head work and sticker tires. Much cheaper to enjoy on the track and would be 99.9% Z28 and may be faster. For dual purpose car the ZL1 is much better choice. Add a 2nd set of R Spec tires/rims like the Z28 has and it will be very close on the track (long track this ZL1 may be even faster) and still be a car that makes sense on the street.

Other than bringing back the Z28 name this car is a solution to a problem that did not exist.
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Old 02-20-2014, 09:43 AM   #35
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You forgot to mention tires! The 1LE has a wider patch, and stickier compound out of the box, over its SS bother.

Nose dive and suspension dynamics also play a role in this.

As for the math, it's not a direct proportion in the formula .
True I did forget about the tires, its not a 'direct' formula but it is still related. However tires and slight suspension tweaks? Still not seeing how the 1LE supposedly stops 20 ft shorter than a standard SS. Either way, based on that number alone the Z/28 has an impossible goal to shoot for, if it stops under 95 ft I will be surprised (and astonishingly happy).
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Old 02-20-2014, 03:17 PM   #36
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...I know the follow opinion will not be popular.... (pulls on fireproof underwear)

This car is cool but really not impressed with the weigh savings. Buy as a collector car but for the $$$ it is not a great value for much anything else.

Track car only I would buy a 1LE... remove the AC... cam/ head work and sticker tires. Much cheaper to enjoy on the track and would be 99.9% Z28 and may be faster. For dual purpose car the ZL1 is much better choice. Add a 2nd set of R Spec tires/rims like the Z28 has and it will be very close on the track (long track this ZL1 may be even faster) and still be a car that makes sense on the street.

Other than bringing back the Z28 name this car is a solution to a problem that did not exist.
I always like it when someone can present their own opinion in a straightforward way -- no flames from me on that one, even though I disagree.

We all come from different positions. In my case, I have been through a number of track day cars. Most of these have issues, since they're based on street cars, with handling extended track usage. Smelly, fading brakes, overheating oil/trans/diff temps, and a general inability to handle running over 8/10s for long (especially in high temps).

Though it was a big stretch for me, my last track day car was a C63 AMG Black Series (maybe I should put on the flameproof suit now?). That thing was absolutely bulletproof on the track, and way faster than a car that heavy has a right to be. The brakes were amazing and stayed that way all day long. The temps barely rose above what they were when driving to the track. It could lap all day long without a whimper, as though the car was looking back at me and saying, "That's all you got for me?!?"...

However, Merc/AMG have no idea how to treat people. A number of QC issues, coupled with the fact that I wanted to greatly increase my track days, made me realize that life would be getting more complicated (and expensive) if I stuck with that car.

So, over a year ago I decided to try to build out a Mustang-based track day car -- essentially a streetable 302S. To get what I wanted from the builders I approached was getting expensive, which caused me to delay just long enough for the Z/28 announcement.

When I saw the Z/28 and read the specs, it was as though the engineers at Chevy were reading my mind. Everything on the car is perfect for my needs, and exactly how I would have done it myself.

Except for the fact that, had I built a Z/28 on my own, it would be significantly more expensive (and without access to the Multimatic shocks).

I'm not saying the car is a steal or a bargain, as it's about $9K more than I'd guessed. However, I defy anyone to find a production car that offers better lap times per dollar. The only thing that may come close is the Nissan GT-R, but that car holds ZERO appeal to me.

So, I can't wait to get my Z/28 and am working out my summer and fall track day schedule. I suspect this thing will run all day in 100-degree temps without a whimper, lap after lap. Looking forward to getting her broken in an on-track, and having another car that is unfazed by life near the limits!
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Old 02-20-2014, 04:57 PM   #37
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I always like it when someone can present their own opinion in a straightforward way -- no flames from me on that one, even though I disagree.

We all come from different positions. In my case, I have been through a number of track day cars. Most of these have issues, since they're based on street cars, with handling extended track usage. Smelly, fading brakes, overheating oil/trans/diff temps, and a general inability to handle running over 8/10s for long (especially in high temps).

Though it was a big stretch for me, my last track day car was a C63 AMG Black Series (maybe I should put on the flameproof suit now?). That thing was absolutely bulletproof on the track, and way faster than a car that heavy has a right to be. The brakes were amazing and stayed that way all day long. The temps barely rose above what they were when driving to the track. It could lap all day long without a whimper, as though the car was looking back at me and saying, "That's all you got for me?!?"...

However, Merc/AMG have no idea how to treat people. A number of QC issues, coupled with the fact that I wanted to greatly increase my track days, made me realize that life would be getting more complicated (and expensive) if I stuck with that car.

So, over a year ago I decided to try to build out a Mustang-based track day car -- essentially a streetable 302S. To get what I wanted from the builders I approached was getting expensive, which caused me to delay just long enough for the Z/28 announcement.

When I saw the Z/28 and read the specs, it was as though the engineers at Chevy were reading my mind. Everything on the car is perfect for my needs, and exactly how I would have done it myself.

Except for the fact that, had I built a Z/28 on my own, it would be significantly more expensive (and without access to the Multimatic shocks).

I'm not saying the car is a steal or a bargain, as it's about $9K more than I'd guessed. However, I defy anyone to find a production car that offers better lap times per dollar. The only thing that may come close is the Nissan GT-R, but that car holds ZERO appeal to me.

So, I can't wait to get my Z/28 and am working out my summer and fall track day schedule. I suspect this thing will run all day in 100-degree temps without a whimper, lap after lap. Looking forward to getting her broken in an on-track, and having another car that is unfazed by life near the limits!
Well... true street car yes. If you just want lap times there is always those go carts they call production cars like Ariel Atoms, Radical's, Donkervoort, and a few in between

I do completely agree with you though. If you wanted to build your own Z/28 you'd be better off buying a used V6 Camaro, or a body-in-white Camaro, but even then after LS7/drivetrain/suspension/CC brakes/wheels/tires/race seats/body modifications for aero, you're looking at right around the ballpark price of a Z/28, and unless you are the pro of all pro's the car isn't going to feel as composed as a Z/28 will (HOPEFULLY). And that isn't even including the price you'll have to pay to build the car, or the time you would have to put into it rather if you did it yourself!

Bottom line is yes the car IS pricey, but look at everything you get... A/C is over-rated anyway, have windows for a reason.
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Old 02-20-2014, 05:32 PM   #38
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I always like it when someone can present their own opinion in a straightforward way -- no flames from me on that one, even though I disagree.

We all come from different positions. In my case, I have been through a number of track day cars. Most of these have issues, since they're based on street cars, with handling extended track usage. Smelly, fading brakes, overheating oil/trans/diff temps, and a general inability to handle running over 8/10s for long (especially in high temps).

Though it was a big stretch for me, my last track day car was a C63 AMG Black Series (maybe I should put on the flameproof suit now?). That thing was absolutely bulletproof on the track, and way faster than a car that heavy has a right to be. The brakes were amazing and stayed that way all day long. The temps barely rose above what they were when driving to the track. It could lap all day long without a whimper, as though the car was looking back at me and saying, "That's all you got for me?!?"...

However, Merc/AMG have no idea how to treat people. A number of QC issues, coupled with the fact that I wanted to greatly increase my track days, made me realize that life would be getting more complicated (and expensive) if I stuck with that car.

So, over a year ago I decided to try to build out a Mustang-based track day car -- essentially a streetable 302S. To get what I wanted from the builders I approached was getting expensive, which caused me to delay just long enough for the Z/28 announcement.

When I saw the Z/28 and read the specs, it was as though the engineers at Chevy were reading my mind. Everything on the car is perfect for my needs, and exactly how I would have done it myself.

Except for the fact that, had I built a Z/28 on my own, it would be significantly more expensive (and without access to the Multimatic shocks).

I'm not saying the car is a steal or a bargain, as it's about $9K more than I'd guessed. However, I defy anyone to find a production car that offers better lap times per dollar. The only thing that may come close is the Nissan GT-R, but that car holds ZERO appeal to me.

So, I can't wait to get my Z/28 and am working out my summer and fall track day schedule. I suspect this thing will run all day in 100-degree temps without a whimper, lap after lap. Looking forward to getting her broken in an on-track, and having another car that is unfazed by life near the limits!
+1 While it's not for everyone, it's exactly what it should be. Good luck to you and your Z!
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Old 02-20-2014, 08:45 PM   #39
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...so after reading some good powerful posts above, debating both sides, can one conclude then, that this latest iteration of the Z28 simply means for the average mod addict, "to never build what they can buy"???

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Old 02-20-2014, 08:58 PM   #40
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Well... true street car yes. If you just want lap times there is always those go carts they call production cars like Ariel Atoms, Radical's, Donkervoort, and a few in between

I do completely agree with you though. If you wanted to build your own Z/28 you'd be better off buying a used V6 Camaro, or a body-in-white Camaro, but even then after LS7/drivetrain/suspension/CC brakes/wheels/tires/race seats/body modifications for aero, you're looking at right around the ballpark price of a Z/28, and unless you are the pro of all pro's the car isn't going to feel as composed as a Z/28 will (HOPEFULLY). And that isn't even including the price you'll have to pay to build the car, or the time you would have to put into it rather if you did it yourself!

Bottom line is yes the car IS pricey, but look at everything you get... A/C is over-rated anyway, have windows for a reason.
The best part about the Z/28 is that I can drive it to the track! Building out a body-in-white would not be street-legal, and I love having something quick that is just streetable enough to drive to the track. It's very nice to have a track-day ride that doesn't require a truck and trailer, as I've gone that route before...
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Old 02-21-2014, 04:47 AM   #41
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Tracking the car is reported to give the brakes a 15,000 mile life.
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Old 02-21-2014, 09:21 AM   #42
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...so after reading some good powerful posts above, debating both sides, can one conclude then, that this latest iteration of the Z28 simply means for the average mod addict, "to never build what they can buy"???

Well if you're somebody who just wants to build it because you enjoy doing something like that, there is nothing wrong with buying a body-in-white Camaro or a V6 and doing a shit ton of modifications to it. However you'll probably come out with about the same amount of money into it as just buying a new Z/28 (assuming you can get a Z/28 at MSRP). Then there is the problem of getting a body-in-white camaro to street legal specs and getting it passes and I can only imagine that is a massive pain in the ass.

+ the Z/28 is a great car but it even has room for improvements Mostly these will be bolt-ons, but we all know a Cam'd LS7 that rev's to 7k+ RPMs sounds like the heavens are being opened up. But people who are super serious about tracking the car will only do so many engine modifications, and will focus on the handling/weight saving aspects.

In my opinion it is not worth buying a body-in-white or V6 to modify, for what the Z/28 offers I think it'd be a pretty big challenge to build a Camaro for the same price range... It'd be more logical to build a tube-frame car, and have fun driving that on the streets because you'd probably end up having to haul it around on a trailer. Just looking at the items I mentioned in my last post, those add up quick.

A base V6 Camaro used in good condition, - 20k+/-
LS7 dry sump roughly - 15k
CC brakes roughly - 12k if not more, (Zr1 brake kits are roughly 9k but that requires quite a bit of setup)
Recaro seats similar to the Z/28's roughly - $1500 for a pair
TR6060 - 3k
Full suspension + drive-train from trans back - 9k
mid range lightweight wheels + track tires - $3500

Thats already 65k and look at everything I havn't mentioned, I've only touched on the big obvious stuff.... All the body work for aerodynamic help, + uninstalling old parts + reinstalling the new parts. I don't even want to imagine labor cost, or the time for a self install.

I'm a poor college student so who knows perhaps I'm wrong. But Aggies are rarely wrong lol
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Old 02-21-2014, 04:11 PM   #43
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Tracking the car is reported to give the brakes a 15,000 mile life.
I'd love to learn more about this; do you have a source or a link you could add? I've heard stories of poor PCCB life from GT3 owners, but Porsche uses brake modulation to help rotate the car -- which exaggerates rotor wear...
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Old 03-08-2014, 01:16 PM   #44
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Is the Z/28 a me too?

This red Z/28 is an all out performance Camaro. Not a commuter car. It brings to mind the year 2000 Mustang Cobra-R. Reading all of these Z/28 specs reminds me of reading all of the Jack Rousch specs of the Cobra R. There are 14 years technology advancements in the Z/28 and GM does have great performance technology. Interesting question: How would the two cars match up in SCCA road competition? 14 years of tech is a huge advantage, however, the Cobra R mustang has IRS and is 300 pounds lighter. Both cars are naturally aspirated. Cobra R has a 175 mph top end. It would be a good race.
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Old 03-08-2014, 01:59 PM   #45
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This red Z/28 is an all out performance Camaro. Not a commuter car. It brings to mind the year 2000 Mustang Cobra-R. Reading all of these Z/28 specs reminds me of reading all of the Jack Rousch specs of the Cobra R. There are 14 years technology advancements in the Z/28 and GM does have great performance technology. Interesting question: How would the two cars match up in SCCA road competition? 14 years of tech is a huge advantage, however, the Cobra R mustang had IRS and is 300 pounds lighter. Both cars are naturally aspirated. Cobra R had a 175 mph top end. It would be a good race.
Uh...but it's really ugly!
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Old 03-08-2014, 02:22 PM   #46
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Uh...but it's really ugly!
Critique this taxi cab.
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Old 03-08-2014, 02:34 PM   #47
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Critique this taxi cab.
If your speaking of the 5Gen(?), I find it both muscular and beautiful in design. But then again I've always loved the look of the 69'. I find them both very cohesive from a design perspective.
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Old 03-08-2014, 02:46 PM   #48
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Critique this taxi cab.
Looks amazing
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Old 03-08-2014, 03:00 PM   #49
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If your speaking of the 5Gen(?), I find it both muscular and beautiful in design. But then again I've always loved the look of the 69'. I find them both very cohesive from a design perspective.
My post referred to the pictured Z-28.
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Old 03-08-2014, 03:38 PM   #50
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If I had to award a design winner between the '14_Z/28 and the '00 Cobra R,
I would select the Z/28. The two cars have things in common, they
are track oriented versions of street muscle cars you can license. Neither has AC,
the Cobra deleted the radio. They are by design spartan and committed to performance,
and both naturally aspirated. The Z/28 in red made me think of the '00 Cobra. The Cobra R
picture is of #184 out of 300 built and for sale here in St. Louis. I never got into the S95 design.
If I had to have one, the one pictured would be the one. Standing next to it I will say there is an attraction,
for me it is the technical package. I have met S95 owners who would disagree about the car being ugly.
I guess beauty is in the eye of the beholder.
While I think the Z/28 design is superior, if I could have either for free money,
I would take the Cobra R, and I would think it awesome, and a good race with the new Z/28.

Last edited by edco; 03-17-2014 at 03:19 AM.
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