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Old 04-16-2014, 03:16 PM   #1
Synergy SATX
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Warranty Tossed by Competition...Again

Pretty upset with Chevy. This is somewhat of a issue but it is very aggravating. A member of our Camaro community bought a 1LE based on all the advertisements about a track ready and competitive vehicle. He autocrosses once or twice a month. He has issues with his transmission and they determine he races competitively due to the damage of the issues (several internal part failures).

So

1) the car should not have issues from what he does, or the advertising is flawed.

2) Advertising the abilities of and emphasizing a track ready car then failing to disclose warranty voided for ANY competition driving.



I was debating a Stingray. Thinking I am done buying new vehicles from them unless Chevy changes this warranty. Just buy used and mod the hell away. But the social media posts, articles forums etc. all bragging about these top of the line performance cars then you do one drag, road course, or autoX, and the car brakes...easy way to hide your product isn't that good OR just another shady sales to rip off a customer IMO. Tired of corporations just taking more and more for profit.
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Old 04-16-2014, 04:44 PM   #2
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If he is in "Competition" then yes they can,but if he is only "Tracking" his car then there is no way they can.This car is sold and marketed as a "Track car" so there are legal issues that he can pursue,but i would contact GM first,
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Old 04-16-2014, 05:51 PM   #3
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Quote:
Originally Posted by cornerspeed92 View Post
If he is in "Competition" then yes they can,but if he is only "Tracking" his car then there is no way they can.This car is sold and marketed as a "Track car" so there are legal issues that he can pursue,but i would contact GM first,
Bad news. Tracking is racing. So voided too.

.."The New Vehicle Limited Warranty
does not cover damage caused as
the result of any of the following:
. Collision, fire, theft, freezing,
vandalism, riot, explosion,
or objects striking the vehicle
. Misuse of the vehicle such as
driving over curbs, overloading,
racing, or other competition.
Proper vehicle use is discussed
in the owner manual.
. Alteration, modification,
or tampering to the vehicle,
including, but not limited to the
body, chassis, powertrain,
driveline, software, or other
components after final assembly
by GM." .
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Old 04-16-2014, 06:08 PM   #4
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Synergy SATX View Post
Bad news. Tracking is racing. So voided too.

.."The New Vehicle Limited Warranty
does not cover damage caused as
the result of any of the following:
. Collision, fire, theft, freezing,
vandalism, riot, explosion,
or objects striking the vehicle
. Misuse of the vehicle such as
driving over curbs, overloading,
racing, or other competition.
Proper vehicle use is discussed
in the owner manual.
. Alteration, modification,
or tampering to the vehicle,
including, but not limited to the
body, chassis, powertrain,
driveline, software, or other
components after final assembly
by GM." .

Quote:
Originally Posted by 2013 Camaro Owner's Manual
Racing or Other Competitive Driving
Racing or competitive driving may
affect the vehicle warranty. See the
warranty book before using the
vehicle for racing or other
competitive driving.
Hmm, these two seem to be in direct contrast. Your vehicle's warranty can or will be voided upon placing it on track depending upon which document you read.
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Old 04-16-2014, 06:11 PM   #5
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I would take it to a small town dealer. At least call one. Explain your situation straight-up, and see if they're still willing to do the work. I've had MUCH better luck taking my car to a small-town shop than in a larger city. Small guys will work for your business.
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Old 04-16-2014, 06:55 PM   #6
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The fact this even has to be debated is what bothers me. You sell a car advertising it's superiority in track/racing but won't back it up NOR disclose it to buyers. Find out in the fine print AFTER an issue arises. Yeah. GM politics can be shady at times.
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Old 04-17-2014, 10:32 AM   #7
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A track day isn't competition,they cant void it. Watch this
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Old 04-17-2014, 11:14 AM   #8
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The word "racing" or "competition" is often tossed in the mix when drivers attend open track days. The two words can be detrimental to both insurance and warranty.

At driver improvement events, with instruction and NO lap times we explicitly explain to the drivers that they are not "racing".

Unfortunately it sounds like you friend autocrosses which is considered racing and competition as it is timed. I know it is symantics, but it does change things.

My two thoughts:

This situation underlines the importance of building a relationship with your dealer as they are the link between you and GM.....IE: they can help or hurt any warranty situation.

There are always two side to every story. We do not and will never know if the owner was jamming the car into say 2nd at WOT and on occasion forced it in there and one day it broke. Autocross can be very abusive to the driveline.

-Matt
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Old 04-17-2014, 11:58 AM   #9
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post a picture of this 1LE... if it's mostly stock and you shutup I think it would get fixed. If it's all modded up with racing mods, then yea it could be a problem.

If you want to autocross, shift to 2nd and keep it there. This should limit having transmission/clutch issues.
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Old 04-17-2014, 05:14 PM   #10
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Should've bought a ZL1. Track day warranty is covered!
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Old 04-18-2014, 09:21 AM   #11
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It's not my car so no pics sorry. The driver competes locally and regionally. He is an accomplished driver, he isn't shifting improperly etc. No mods. Dealers look at tracking for time as competition. Their words. He elevated to Chevy, they shot him down. Also, why should I "shop around" for a dealer who overlooks the fine print? Bottom line again, why are we having this debate? Chevy sells you on a trackable car, sells you a warranty that is voided as soon as they find an out, i.e. you track it. Go buy a Z28, track it and good luck if it has an issue. There are several threads on this topic and I find it troubling. "Should of bought a ZL1?" Really??? Did the dealer disclose this fine print then? I love my Camaros... Yes I own two. But I find this sale tactic shady and do not let my love of them blind the fact this tactic is underhanded. Frustrated and done venting but I find we should be outspoken instead of forgiving on this. I don't think I will buy new ever again. Hell I am helping the Camarocross out. I wonder if the participants know they are voiding their warranty? Should I tell them?
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Old 04-18-2014, 12:34 PM   #12
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Man, you are getting pretty worked up over an issue that's not even yours. And I was kidding when I said they should've bought a ZL1. Didn't know it would get you all riled up! I am sorry if you took offense!

If I were you, since you are going to be at CamaroFest in 2 weeks, wait and talk to Al Oppenheiser. He was at the last few, so hopefully he will make it there again this year. Get your answer straight from the top! I know he personally helped a buddy of mine get his convertible top replaced under warranty. I have also spoken with him specifically about the warranty of the ZL1 and he told me that if the car is being used for the intended purposes (on the track) and something breaks, it will be covered under warranty. Hopefully your buddy (through you since he isn't posting about this) will find out a similar response from Al for the 1LE.

I did my research before buying my car, and my dealer didn't disclose anything to me about the warranty at the time of purchase. In fact, I knew more about the car than my dealer. I would assume anyone would do their research on the warranty before purchasing a car, especially if it was a performance car I had thought about taking to the track.
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Old 04-18-2014, 03:34 PM   #13
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Deke736 View Post
Man, you are getting pretty worked up over an issue that's not even yours. And I was kidding when I said they should've bought a ZL1. Didn't know it would get you all riled up! I am sorry if you took offense!

If I were you, since you are going to be at CamaroFest in 2 weeks, wait and talk to Al Oppenheiser. He was at the last few, so hopefully he will make it there again this year. Get your answer straight from the top! I know he personally helped a buddy of mine get his convertible top replaced under warranty. I have also spoken with him specifically about the warranty of the ZL1 and he told me that if the car is being used for the intended purposes (on the track) and something breaks, it will be covered under warranty. Hopefully your buddy (through you since he isn't posting about this) will find out a similar response from Al for the 1LE.

I did my research before buying my car, and my dealer didn't disclose anything to me about the warranty at the time of purchase. In fact, I knew more about the car than my dealer. I would assume anyone would do their research on the warranty before purchasing a car, especially if it was a performance car I had thought about taking to the track.
No offense taken and I hope non received. These forums can be hard to interpret messages at times. Chevy informed my friend ZL1 not covered either. So unless Al gets to answer every phone call on this, what is said and what is done are two different matters. There are other threads. This isn't a stand alone event. Since I "track and misuse" my two Camaros it stands to reason I should be concerned. As any customer should. But enough of this palaver. It is what is. I will warn people as I see fit. I will let the Fest Camarocross leader make the call on warning people. Insurance is a whole other bag of tricks...
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Old 04-18-2014, 03:48 PM   #14
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Well Mike, you'll definitely get your opportunity to speak to the powers to be. I agree this is gray area that can bite you in the a$$. 1LE is a track capable car just like the ZL1 and warranty should be the same.

I'm betting a different dealer may have a different opinion on the subject
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Old 04-19-2014, 09:49 PM   #15
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It would be nice if GM Customer Service chimed in on these matters rather than just thanking people for buying advertised track capable car.

This seems like a policy issue corporate GM could address very quickly.

Personally I don't think autocross is particularly hard on cars.
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Old 04-20-2014, 04:38 PM   #16
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Synergy SATX View Post
The fact this even has to be debated is what bothers me. You sell a car advertising it's superiority in track/racing but won't back it up NOR disclose it to buyers. Find out in the fine print AFTER an issue arises. Yeah. GM politics can be shady at times.
They are simply protecting themselves from self-professed "racers". I'm sure you've been to track days...seen what some people will do to their poor cars.

The Camaros 1LE, ZL1, and Z/28 were designed and tested as "track-ready". But that doesn't mean they were designed to be abused.

But how do you word that in a warranty? "Manufacturer reserves the right to deny coverage if abuse is suspected?" IMO, that'd piss more people off than the existing situation...before any tracking was attempted.

For every one car that's been denied coverage, I've got to say I've seen 10 more who were warranted after damage at a track.

May I ask...this car...was anything modified on it?

As a pseudo "appeal"...the owner may try contacting Chevy customer service...and explaining the situation. Perhaps they are more in touch with the expectations of the Camaro driver, than your dealer is. (I know the one I take mine in for service refuses to put anything higher than DOT3 brake fluid in...even if I buy it!)
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Old 04-20-2014, 09:46 PM   #17
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From a corporate stand point, I can understand why Chevy/GM limits warranty claims when evidence of "tracking" is clear. I have seen in real life and on this board some insane mods and baloney that get returned to "stock" for a dealership complaint.

That said, the 1LE is a serious package and they should stand behind some usage for it's purpose IMO.
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Old 04-21-2014, 12:21 AM   #18
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There is a difference between being on track (hpde) and competiton or other timed event on track.

The later is not covered, the first is since its with instruction learning how to drive your car how it was intended without other cars, pedestrians or cops, so the warranty cannot be voided anymore than it could be by flooring from a stop light.
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Old 04-21-2014, 01:17 AM   #19
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hard to argue this

Current ad and many of those product do not violate warranty, like 1LE suspension, brakes, etc..Where do they think people are going to use this stuff? They are suggesting if not telling, at the road course!
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Old 04-21-2014, 03:06 PM   #20
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I don't understand why the ZL1 and 1LE would have different warranties?? If so, that's B.S.
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Old 04-21-2014, 03:31 PM   #21
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Quote:
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I don't understand why the ZL1 and 1LE would have different warranties?? If so, that's B.S.
They don't. All Camaros have the same warranty.

However...the 1LE, ZL1, and Z/28 models are advertised as "track ready" cars. Which means that they have passed the most rigorous forms of performance and abusive testing imaginable, including the 24-hour track test. As such, it's been stated in the past that if something were to break on an UNMODIFIED 1LE, ZL1, or Z/28 during performance driving (Not Competitive Racing), the powertrain warranty would be honored at dealerships.

But that is not written out explicitly...because some people, unfortunately, equate abusive driving with performance...and Chevy protects themselves from being defrauded by not putting it in writing.
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Old 04-21-2014, 04:48 PM   #22
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They don't. All Camaros have the same warranty.

However...the 1LE, ZL1, and Z/28 models are advertised as "track ready" cars. Which means that they have passed the most rigorous forms of performance and abusive testing imaginable, including the 24-hour track test. As such, it's been stated in the past that if something were to break on an UNMODIFIED 1LE, ZL1, or Z/28 during performance driving (Not Competitive Racing), the powertrain warranty would be honored at dealerships.

But that is not written out explicitly...because some people, unfortunately, equate abusive driving with performance...and Chevy protects themselves from being defrauded by not putting it in writing.
No mods in this car. Driver changes fluids at or exceeding recommendations for tracking. Only does Autocross. Seasoned driver with several years experience. Chevy shot him down. Claimed he abused car in competition. If you go HPDE and have tranny issues then good luck to you. They looked at his issue and instantly proclaimed him abusive. He elevated to Chevy and was shot down. As someone stated, this isn't my 1LE, he used a different dealership then mine. It really isn't my issue. I just take exception to the ads and the lack of coverage. I asked Mustang owner and he checked his "track packed" Mustang and his warranty is solid...no verbiage about tracking voiding it. Go the Autocross threads and see several more instances. Aggravating. Like I said. I am looking at buying used from now on, find a reputable garage and just mod there without worry of warranty ever again. Financial gurus say that is better way to go anyways.
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Old 04-21-2014, 05:39 PM   #23
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It sucks that they advertise it as a track car, but a short trip to the track will void the warranty!! Tell me whats the difference between driving fast on the streets or on a track? This whole thing is shitty and GM is the worst company with their warranty.

In the end guys, its always the same story; truth DO NOT pay. Protect your ass and do not tell anything your dealer. Its the business world; nobody cares, they just want your money.

Good luck, I hope GM will honor the warranty on a car that is advertised as a 'track ready car' but wont honor warranty for it.

If ever that happens to me, I will never buy a GM again and tell everyone on every forum how GM treat their customers.
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Old 04-21-2014, 05:55 PM   #24
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I knew a guy who once bought a Mach 1. The car was being driven like a Mach 1. The kid driving it slammed the gears so hard his shifter broke. It was definitely the driver's fault. I'm not saying the 1LE driver was all wrong, but that side is certainly something to consider.

That kid never admitted fault, instead claiming the car was crappy, which it probably was. Of course, I would never expect a person to admit that they can't drive their performance car properly.
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Old 04-21-2014, 06:05 PM   #25
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Quote:
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I asked Mustang owner and he checked his "track packed" Mustang and his warranty is solid...no verbiage about tracking voiding it.
I just checked the warranty on my 5.0 GT. Racing voids the warranty in the Ford camp as well.
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