Camaro5 Chevy Camaro Forum / Camaro ZL1, SS and V6 Forums - Camaro5.com
 
Phastek Performance
Go Back   Camaro5 Chevy Camaro Forum / Camaro ZL1, SS and V6 Forums - Camaro5.com > Technical Camaro Topics > Suspension / Brakes / Chassis


Reply
 
Thread Tools
Old 05-01-2014, 02:12 PM   #239
JCunningham


 
JCunningham's Avatar
 
Drives: 2012 SIM 2SS/RS M6
Join Date: Jun 2013
Location: Attica, NY
Posts: 3,379
the rear camber is -0.2 left .1 right. i think he said thats as close to 0 as he could get it. I gave him what Justice Pete posted 235 and the sheet i posted in 236 and told him to chose what would be better for a street car. Does it need to be changed?
__________________
2012 2SS/RS M6 SIM, Painted CarbonFlash rally stripes, Elite CC&CAOS 3.91 gears, dynoed by J&J Speedshop New Era ported TB, CAI intake, Apex Scoop, Heritage Grill, PatG CamMotion cam, 25%Fluidampr, Melling 296 Oil pump, Katech C5-R chain, Cloyes LS2 tensioner, PAC1205x springs and pushrods, Comp Cams trunions. ImprovedRacing oil baffle, crank scraper, Monster Billet release bearing support, 18" remote bleeder, ARH 1 7/8" LT headers w/cats, TWM full Shifter, BMR sways, trailing arms, toe rods, delrin cradle bushings, BK039 rear control bushings, front bushings. Solo Mach-XL exhaust 477hp 466tq
JCunningham is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-01-2014, 02:27 PM   #240
Rob@WretchedMS
 
Drives: His Wife Crazy
Join Date: Jan 2008
Location: Silas Deane Auto,CT Name: Rob Anderson
Posts: 1,787
I was looking at the chart where you mentioned the aggressive street, which is not what you had it aligned to, didn't look back farther.

The alignment you have is more geared to drag racing,
Rob@WretchedMS is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-01-2014, 02:35 PM   #241
JCunningham


 
JCunningham's Avatar
 
Drives: 2012 SIM 2SS/RS M6
Join Date: Jun 2013
Location: Attica, NY
Posts: 3,379
looking for a street road track set up. I dont have any road tracks close enough for me to go to regularly. We do have Leichester drag strip but I like road track. So what he did is my fault if its not what I wanted right. I think what he did was take the 2 sheets and changed the differences.
__________________
2012 2SS/RS M6 SIM, Painted CarbonFlash rally stripes, Elite CC&CAOS 3.91 gears, dynoed by J&J Speedshop New Era ported TB, CAI intake, Apex Scoop, Heritage Grill, PatG CamMotion cam, 25%Fluidampr, Melling 296 Oil pump, Katech C5-R chain, Cloyes LS2 tensioner, PAC1205x springs and pushrods, Comp Cams trunions. ImprovedRacing oil baffle, crank scraper, Monster Billet release bearing support, 18" remote bleeder, ARH 1 7/8" LT headers w/cats, TWM full Shifter, BMR sways, trailing arms, toe rods, delrin cradle bushings, BK039 rear control bushings, front bushings. Solo Mach-XL exhaust 477hp 466tq
JCunningham is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-01-2014, 09:44 PM   #242
JusticePete
 
JusticePete's Avatar
 
Drives: Camaro Justice
Join Date: Jun 2007
Location: Virginia
Posts: 17,601
Quote:
Originally Posted by JCunningham View Post
looking for a street road track set up. I dont have any road tracks close enough for me to go to regularly. We do have Leichester drag strip but I like road track. So what he did is my fault if its not what I wanted right. I think what he did was take the 2 sheets and changed the differences.
The key question is how does it drive now?
JusticePete is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-02-2014, 12:58 AM   #243
JCunningham


 
JCunningham's Avatar
 
Drives: 2012 SIM 2SS/RS M6
Join Date: Jun 2013
Location: Attica, NY
Posts: 3,379
like its on rails. but i dont know what im missing. so as long as im not ruining the tires im good?
__________________
2012 2SS/RS M6 SIM, Painted CarbonFlash rally stripes, Elite CC&CAOS 3.91 gears, dynoed by J&J Speedshop New Era ported TB, CAI intake, Apex Scoop, Heritage Grill, PatG CamMotion cam, 25%Fluidampr, Melling 296 Oil pump, Katech C5-R chain, Cloyes LS2 tensioner, PAC1205x springs and pushrods, Comp Cams trunions. ImprovedRacing oil baffle, crank scraper, Monster Billet release bearing support, 18" remote bleeder, ARH 1 7/8" LT headers w/cats, TWM full Shifter, BMR sways, trailing arms, toe rods, delrin cradle bushings, BK039 rear control bushings, front bushings. Solo Mach-XL exhaust 477hp 466tq
JCunningham is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-09-2014, 04:58 PM   #244
cornerspeed92


 
cornerspeed92's Avatar
 
Drives: 2013 1SS 1LE
Join Date: Jul 2012
Location: SoCal
Posts: 3,759
I looked but it seems all the info is on a standard SS, or with Pedders. This car stuff is all new to me. I seem to be tearing up my edges, and am not being able to use all of the tread on my tire. What track specs would be good for my 1LE ?
__________________
cornerspeed92 is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 05-09-2014, 08:51 PM   #245
LS1hawk
 
LS1hawk's Avatar
 
Drives: 11 SGM 2SS/RS
Join Date: Mar 2010
Location: PA
Posts: 470
I've held off doing any suspension mods to my car because I know my area doesn't really have anywhere that I really trusted to get it aligned properly once it was lowered. I finally broke down when Apex picked up the Pfadt line and bought a set of their lowering springs for my 2011 SS. I took to a local place hoping they could get it dialed in. I think I would have been better off doing it in my garage the old way.

I read through this thread twice looking over all of the information so I was prepared with my specs and any other information they may have needed. After two hours of waiting they tell me they couldn't get the right rear adjusted and they had to charge me for a camber adjusting bolt to get the front right in spec. AAAAAHHhHHHHH, I should have printed out the bold red statement from JusticePete that stated you do not need one of those and how to do it properly.

Can anyone tell me the major concerns they see with the alignment I'm posting below? Thanks!! And Rob@Wretched, it sounds crazy but I may be making a three hour drive to you to get me dialed in and to make installing these springs worth it.


__________________
LS1hawk is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-13-2014, 11:09 PM   #246
JusticePete
 
JusticePete's Avatar
 
Drives: Camaro Justice
Join Date: Jun 2007
Location: Virginia
Posts: 17,601
Quote:
Originally Posted by JCunningham View Post
like its on rails. but i dont know what im missing. so as long as im not ruining the tires im good?
You are good to go!

Quote:
Originally Posted by cornerspeed92 View Post
I looked but it seems all the info is on a standard SS, or with Pedders. This car stuff is all new to me. I seem to be tearing up my edges, and am not being able to use all of the tread on my tire. What track specs would be good for my 1LE ?
Please post pictures of your tire wear and identify them front and rear,

Quote:
Originally Posted by LS1hawk View Post
I've held off doing any suspension mods to my car because I know my area doesn't really have anywhere that I really trusted to get it aligned properly once it was lowered. I finally broke down when Apex picked up the Pfadt line and bought a set of their lowering springs for my 2011 SS. I took to a local place hoping they could get it dialed in. I think I would have been better off doing it in my garage the old way.

I read through this thread twice looking over all of the information so I was prepared with my specs and any other information they may have needed. After two hours of waiting they tell me they couldn't get the right rear adjusted and they had to charge me for a camber adjusting bolt to get the front right in spec. AAAAAHHhHHHHH, I should have printed out the bold red statement from JusticePete that stated you do not need one of those and how to do it properly.

Can anyone tell me the major concerns they see with the alignment I'm posting below? Thanks!! And Rob@Wretched, it sounds crazy but I may be making a three hour drive to you to get me dialed in and to make installing these springs worth it.



#1 get rid of the front camber bolts. They are not as strong as the OEM bolts and tell me the shop had no idea on how to align a Camaro. There is a threaded hole in the knuckle for a 10mm 1.5 pitch bolt. You screw in the bolt with the clevis bolts loose to decrease negative camber and unscrew it to increase negative camber.

#2 in the rear the camber and toe adjustments work against each other as though they were in an A style / wishbone arm. To set rear camber the tech should loosen and move the toe adjustment bolts to the neutral position (the eccentric bolt heads / washer ride against metal fences. neutral means the eccentric is not touching the fence on either side). Once the camber is set, the tech starts on the toe. The tech continues to work one against the other to get the best result.

#3 with only 0.01 toe in the rear high speed straight line stability is compromised. The rear toe should be set IN 0.12 degrees per side with a total of 0.24 IN.

Go back to the shop. Give them my name, email and phone number. I'll walk them through the correct way to align your Camaro.

Pete Basica
616.834.8100
peter.basica@apispeed.com
JusticePete is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-21-2014, 08:22 AM   #247
Norm Peterson
corner barstool sitter
 
Norm Peterson's Avatar
 
Drives: 08 Mustang GT, 10 Legacy 2.5GT, ...
Join Date: Jul 2012
Location: Eastern Time Zone
Posts: 3,513
Quote:
Originally Posted by JusticePete View Post
#1 get rid of the front camber bolts. They are not as strong as the OEM bolts and tell me the shop had no idea on how to align a Camaro. There is a threaded hole in the knuckle for a 10mm 1.5 pitch bolt. You screw in the bolt with the clevis bolts loose to decrease negative camber and unscrew it to increase negative camber.
I'd go a bit further and say that while that shop is probably a pretty good shop as far as aligning the average commuter/grocery-getter sedan is concerned, their experience with and level of understanding has a ways to go when it comes to aligning performance cars in general. Particularly those with suspension mods.


Part of the blame can be passed along to the thousands of enthusiasts (particularly those with other cars) who shop for camber correction on price without any other understanding at all. This feeds the shops an expectation that the crash-bolt approach to camber alignment is a good enough job. My opinion as well as Pete's and apparently the Zeta chassis' suspension engineering crew - it's not.


Norm
Norm Peterson is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-01-2014, 05:02 PM   #248
Dexman1349
2010 2SS/RS M6
 
Dexman1349's Avatar
 
Drives: 2010 2SS/RS M6
Join Date: Jun 2010
Location: Castle Rock, CO
Posts: 1,422
A list of mods installed (or will be installed this weekend):

Pfadt sport sways & endlinks
Prothane radius arm bushing inserts
Prothane Steering rack bushing
ZL1 toe Rods
Pfadt strut tower brace
Pfadt Upper control arm bushing
Pfadt solid subframe bushing
ZL1 springs
Spohn trailing arms with del-sphere bearings
BMR outer trailing arm bushings

I want something that will complement the equipment installed for a more aggressive street use (it's a daily driver), but not so aggressive that it tears up my tires.

After comparing the Pfadt specs to the Pedders Aggressive Street specs, this is what I'm looking at:
Front camber -1.0
Front caster 8.0
Front total toe 0.0
Rear camber -0.8
Rear total toe -0.24

Thoughts?
__________________
2/7/2014: 419 hp, 419 tq

Cosmetic: ZL1 front w/mailslot, painted stripes, powdercoated SS rims, tow hook, and Gary's customs bowties, painted emblems and taillight bezels

Suspension: Pfadt subframe bushings, Pfadt rear UCA bushings, Z28 Upper control arms, Spohn trailing arms with BMR trailing arm & differential bushings, ZL1 Toe Rods and springs, Prothane radius arm inserts & steering rack bushing, Pfadt Sport sways, Pfadt strut brace

Drivetrain: RMCR tune, CAI intake, Kooks headers, high-flow cats & exhaust, VMAX TB, ZL1 fuel pump, LSR Tri-Ax shifter

Bumblebee Racecar Build
Dexman1349 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-01-2014, 05:16 PM   #249
JusticePete
 
JusticePete's Avatar
 
Drives: Camaro Justice
Join Date: Jun 2007
Location: Virginia
Posts: 17,601
Just a few...

Front Toe 0.00
Front Camber -1.25

Rear Toe IN 0.12
Rear Toe Total IN 0.24
Rear Camber as little negative camber as possible -0.50 or less is possible. Make sure the tech sets camber with the Toe Eccentrics in a neutral position. as he corrects Toe negative camber will increase. The goal is the least amount of negative rear camber.
JusticePete is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-01-2014, 05:29 PM   #250
Dexman1349
2010 2SS/RS M6
 
Dexman1349's Avatar
 
Drives: 2010 2SS/RS M6
Join Date: Jun 2010
Location: Castle Rock, CO
Posts: 1,422
Thanks!!
__________________
2/7/2014: 419 hp, 419 tq

Cosmetic: ZL1 front w/mailslot, painted stripes, powdercoated SS rims, tow hook, and Gary's customs bowties, painted emblems and taillight bezels

Suspension: Pfadt subframe bushings, Pfadt rear UCA bushings, Z28 Upper control arms, Spohn trailing arms with BMR trailing arm & differential bushings, ZL1 Toe Rods and springs, Prothane radius arm inserts & steering rack bushing, Pfadt Sport sways, Pfadt strut brace

Drivetrain: RMCR tune, CAI intake, Kooks headers, high-flow cats & exhaust, VMAX TB, ZL1 fuel pump, LSR Tri-Ax shifter

Bumblebee Racecar Build
Dexman1349 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-01-2014, 05:52 PM   #251
JusticePete
 
JusticePete's Avatar
 
Drives: Camaro Justice
Join Date: Jun 2007
Location: Virginia
Posts: 17,601
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dexman1349 View Post
Thanks!!
x2

You forgot the thanks for the PM.
















JusticePete is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-01-2014, 06:15 PM   #252
Dexman1349
2010 2SS/RS M6
 
Dexman1349's Avatar
 
Drives: 2010 2SS/RS M6
Join Date: Jun 2010
Location: Castle Rock, CO
Posts: 1,422
Yeah, I was an idiot and couldn't find this thread. Forgot it was a sticky...

Great advice as always Pete, thanks!
__________________
2/7/2014: 419 hp, 419 tq

Cosmetic: ZL1 front w/mailslot, painted stripes, powdercoated SS rims, tow hook, and Gary's customs bowties, painted emblems and taillight bezels

Suspension: Pfadt subframe bushings, Pfadt rear UCA bushings, Z28 Upper control arms, Spohn trailing arms with BMR trailing arm & differential bushings, ZL1 Toe Rods and springs, Prothane radius arm inserts & steering rack bushing, Pfadt Sport sways, Pfadt strut brace

Drivetrain: RMCR tune, CAI intake, Kooks headers, high-flow cats & exhaust, VMAX TB, ZL1 fuel pump, LSR Tri-Ax shifter

Bumblebee Racecar Build
Dexman1349 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-04-2014, 01:52 PM   #253
jksynergy

 
jksynergy's Avatar
 
Drives: 11 SW SYNERGY SERIES/14 1SS 1LE
Join Date: May 2012
Location: Missouri
Posts: 1,016
Ok, gonna throw this out there for guidance. 2014 1LE, no suspension changes other than Pedders 220035's on the rear. Brought the rear down about 1/2 inch and leveled the car. Now, the alignment question. I primarilyl use the car for autox, no track days or hpde events currently. I'm seeing wear and pretty good wear at that on the outer edges. I know I need to adjust camber, but want to do so with street use still in mind. Thoughts on good numbers to start with and then expand after hitting another autox event this coming weekend? I am running a true square setup for autox, 20x10's all the way around with the stock size goodyears.
Thanks.
__________________
2011 Summit White Synergy Series Edition, the hot innocent woman named Ava that we show off around town, dressed in white complete with angel's wings. Sold, but never forgotten.

2014 1SS 1LE. Bama, sporting Red Rock Metallic demon's horns, when we are ready to get naughty and open a can of whoopass! Roto-Fab, custom splitter and wicker bill. Wrapped in Xpel by ClearAutoBra.com, Full of Pedders parts. Diode Dynamics bulbs, JRE Tune,
Hooker Headers Blackheart exhaust.
2015 Midwest Muscle Car Challenge Road Course champion.
InstaGram & Twitter: @jlouie62
FB: hangtimeracing
jksynergy is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-04-2014, 02:50 PM   #254
JusticePete
 
JusticePete's Avatar
 
Drives: Camaro Justice
Join Date: Jun 2007
Location: Virginia
Posts: 17,601
I'll get a detailed post up today.
JusticePete is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-04-2014, 03:00 PM   #255
jksynergy

 
jksynergy's Avatar
 
Drives: 11 SW SYNERGY SERIES/14 1SS 1LE
Join Date: May 2012
Location: Missouri
Posts: 1,016
Quote:
Originally Posted by JusticePete View Post
I'll get a detailed post up today.
Thanks Pete. I know my issue is different from others as we only changed the height in the rear vs all around. Car looks fantastic, now just want to take advantage of that look.
__________________
2011 Summit White Synergy Series Edition, the hot innocent woman named Ava that we show off around town, dressed in white complete with angel's wings. Sold, but never forgotten.

2014 1SS 1LE. Bama, sporting Red Rock Metallic demon's horns, when we are ready to get naughty and open a can of whoopass! Roto-Fab, custom splitter and wicker bill. Wrapped in Xpel by ClearAutoBra.com, Full of Pedders parts. Diode Dynamics bulbs, JRE Tune,
Hooker Headers Blackheart exhaust.
2015 Midwest Muscle Car Challenge Road Course champion.
InstaGram & Twitter: @jlouie62
FB: hangtimeracing
jksynergy is offline   Reply With Quote
 
Reply

Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump

Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Definitive GT500 Thread garagelogic Chevy Camaro vs... 98 02-12-2010 02:14 PM
Lets start a Tire Specific Thread here, sizes, brands, specs and other usefull info. 55Designs Wheels and Tires Talk Sponsored by The Tire Rack 0 12-20-2009 08:58 PM
Suggestion: Explanation to thread starters for their threads being locked? colin911 Site Related Announcements / Suggestions / Feedback / Questions 2 12-06-2009 11:25 PM
Dealer Praise Thread (Not an Idiot!) RPO_Z28 Camaro Price | Ordering | Tracking | Dealers Discussions 84 06-25-2009 02:00 AM
prices thread nimnels 5th Gen Camaro SS LS LT General Discussions 1 05-02-2009 07:47 PM


All times are GMT -5. The time now is 10:07 AM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.9 Beta 4
Copyright ©2000 - 2016, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.