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Old 05-08-2014, 10:56 AM   #26
JusticePete
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Can anyone confirm if Pedders front sway bar (428020-27A) is compatible with a 2013 ZL1?
Yes and no. You can use it with the OEM ZL1 bar, but I don't recommend it.

All main stream automobile manufacturers build understeer into their vehicles for safety and liability. The vast majority of drivers will apply their brakes when a vehicle starts to slide. This is especially true since the introduction of ABS brakes. Stand on the ABS and things will get better with a vehicle that understeers. On a vehicle that oversteers, lifting off the accelerator will make things worse.

Knowing this, a performance driver will opt for a larger than stock rear bar and a smaller than stock front bar ratio setup. This brings the OE understeer to a more neutral or oversteer bias. A 1LE delivers with the same size front and rear tires to deliver a more neutral 5th Gen. The square tire setup makes the 1LE so neutral the OE engineers made the front sway bar larger than the ZL1 to bring back a slight understeer bias. 1LE owners will benefit from the installation of an OE ZL1 front bar. ZL1 owners will benefit from installing a 32mm rear bar with the OEM front bar.

An adjustable front 27mm bar set to soft will function close to a 26mm bar. Pair that with a 32mm rear Z style bar and you have 6mm of 'ovcersteer' bias. A 28mm rear ZL1 / 1LE bar mated to a 23mm front bar is a difference of 5mm. You get the idea.

I am woefully behind on my PMs. I hope this helps about 10 C5 members with pending PMs.
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Old 05-08-2014, 11:10 AM   #27
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Originally Posted by JusticePete View Post
Yes and no. You can use it with the OEM ZL1 bar, but I don't recommend it.

All main stream automobile manufacturers build understeer into their vehicles for safety and liability. The vast majority of drivers will apply their brakes when a vehicle starts to slide. This is especially true since the introduction of ABS brakes. Stand on the ABS and things will get better with a vehicle that understeers. On a vehicle that oversteers, lifting off the accelerator will make things worse.

Knowing this, a performance driver will opt for a larger than stock rear bar and a smaller than stock front bar ratio setup. This brings the OE understeer to a more neutral or oversteer bias. A 1LE delivers with the same size front and rear tires to deliver a more neutral 5th Gen. The square tire setup makes the 1LE so neutral the OE engineers made the front sway bar larger than the ZL1 to bring back a slight understeer bias. 1LE owners will benefit from the installation of an OE ZL1 front bar. ZL1 owners will benefit from installing a 32mm rear bar with the OEM front bar.

An adjustable front 27mm bar set to soft will function close to a 26mm bar. Pair that with a 32mm rear Z style bar and you have 6mm of 'ovcersteer' bias. A 28mm rear ZL1 / 1LE bar mated to a 23mm front bar is a difference of 5mm. You get the idea.

I am woefully behind on my PMs. I hope this helps about 10 C5 members with pending PMs.
I realize you're an extremely busy man and I really do appreciate the response. I realize going to an aftermarket front sway is ill-advised if I were to stay with an OEM rear. I'm planning on switching out both Sways, however it looks like I can get a Pedder's front, unfortunately I cannot find the Z Spec rear so I would likely have to go with a different brand. Which was what brought me here, do I mix and match (Pedder's front with a different company rear) or for consistency sake, stick with one brand. Not that it really matters that much, but if I go with a solid front and hollow tubing rear I am going to have to take into consideration the OD of the rear sway.
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Old 05-08-2014, 11:22 AM   #28
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Baylor, go with LSR or Detroit Speed
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Old 05-08-2014, 11:55 AM   #29
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Baylor, go with LSR or Detroit Speed
Yeah I'm thinking Detroit Speed. That's what Jordan @ JDP is running and I was impressed with his car / times, to say the least

The one thing I do not like about the Detroit Speed front sway is that it appears (per their site) you cannot adjust it. So I MAY do LSR (or Pedders) front and Detroit Speed rear..

Last edited by BaylorCamaro; 05-08-2014 at 12:33 PM.
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Old 05-08-2014, 01:59 PM   #30
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Rear LSR Bar
CNC bent from tubular 1-3/8 inch DOM steel and then TIG welded with billet steel ends. Each end provides three adjustment positions for fine tuning of handling balance.

Compared to the factory ZL1 bar, the first position is the same as stock, position 2 is 10% stiffer, and position 3 is 26% stiffer.

If you are upgrading to this bar on an SS model, the first position is 76% stiffer than stock, position 2 is 100% stiffer, and position 3 will be 130% stiffer.
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Old 05-08-2014, 04:32 PM   #31
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sycraft View Post
Rear LSR Bar
CNC bent from tubular 1-3/8 inch DOM steel and then TIG welded with billet steel ends. Each end provides three adjustment positions for fine tuning of handling balance.

Compared to the factory ZL1 bar, the first position is the same as stock, position 2 is 10% stiffer, and position 3 is 26% stiffer.

If you are upgrading to this bar on an SS model, the first position is 76% stiffer than stock, position 2 is 100% stiffer, and position 3 will be 130% stiffer.
Same as stock i the front is great with a big fat rear
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Old 05-08-2014, 04:34 PM   #32
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Same as stock i the front is great with a big fat rear
Is that what you'd suggest on the ZL1? Stock front but big rear? I just need to correct the push I'm getting mid way through the turns.
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Old 05-08-2014, 05:45 PM   #33
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Is that what you'd suggest on the ZL1? Stock front but big rear? I just need to correct the push I'm getting mid way through the turns.
Road course or AC?
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Old 05-08-2014, 06:01 PM   #34
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Road course or AC?
The push I was talking about was in Autocross this past weekend. However I will be doing both consistently. Road course event the end of this month.
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Old 05-08-2014, 06:02 PM   #35
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Road course or AC?
Does that make much of a difference? I mostly do RC but have been wanting to try my hand at AC.

I have a rear z bar to put in actually pretty much have a Permagrin kit. Just waiting for my Ridetechs then I will do it all at once.

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Old 05-08-2014, 06:19 PM   #36
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Originally Posted by BaylorCamaro View Post
The push I was talking about was in Autocross this past weekend. However I will be doing both consistently. Road course event the end of this month.
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Originally Posted by Firefighter View Post
Does that make much of a difference? I mostly do RC but have been wanting to try my hand at AC.

I have a rear z bar to put in actually pretty much have a Permagrin kit. Just waiting for my Ridetechs then I will do it all at once.

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The tighter the corner, the better you are with a big rear bar and a soft front bar. On a road course that car can get a bit loose setup that way. Drivers with countless hours of seat time find that to be very fast. Very few of us have enough seat time and skill to love that kind of setup on a road course.

It isn't unusual to see a front sway bar disconnected at an AC event. This allows a lot of front end roll, but also a lot of front end stick. Using OE bars, I think many would find an OE 23mm front bar with an OE Z/1LE 28mm rear bar to be a very good setup for both AC and RC. Am I a fan of a 27mm front adjustable bar with a 32mm rear bar, of course I am. I am the guy that settled on that setup after countless hours of testing and brought it to market. The front to rear difference is 5mm and '6'mm with the front bar to full soft. OE 23 / 28 is a 5mm difference
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Old 05-08-2014, 06:45 PM   #37
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Yeah I'm thinking Detroit Speed. That's what Jordan @ JDP is running and I was impressed with his car / times, to say the least

The one thing I do not like about the Detroit Speed front sway is that it appears (per their site) you cannot adjust it. So I MAY do LSR (or Pedders) front and Detroit Speed rear..
The DSE bars are 3 way adjustable in the rear and 2 way adjustable in the front. Let us know if you have any questions on them.

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Old 05-08-2014, 06:56 PM   #38
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The DSE bars are 3 way adjustable in the rear and 2 way adjustable in the front. Let us know if you have any questions on them.

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Old 05-08-2014, 07:42 PM   #39
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JusticePete View Post
The tighter the corner, the better you are with a big rear bar and a soft front bar. On a road course that car can get a bit loose setup that way. Drivers with countless hours of seat time find that to be very fast. Very few of us have enough seat time and skill to love that kind of setup on a road course.

It isn't unusual to see a front sway bar disconnected at an AC event. This allows a lot of front end roll, but also a lot of front end stick. Using OE bars, I think many would find an OE 23mm front bar with an OE Z/1LE 28mm rear bar to be a very good setup for both AC and RC. Am I a fan of a 27mm front adjustable bar with a 32mm rear bar, of course I am. I am the guy that settled on that setup after countless hours of testing and brought it to market. The front to rear difference is 5mm and '6'mm with the front bar to full soft. OE 23 / 28 is a 5mm difference
Makes sense about the road course. My thought process is go with after market bars so I can set it up more conservative for road course and go more aggressive for Autocross.
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Old 06-11-2014, 04:21 PM   #40
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We have some new weight comparisons with the new front DSE anti-roll bar for electric power steering compared to a factory 2013 1LE bar:

1LE Front ARB with brackets and bushings = 15.1lbs.
DSE Front ARB with brackets and bushings = 9.2 lbs.

Here is the weight comparison for the rear DSE anti-roll bar:

1LE Rear ARB with brackets and bushings = 18.1 lbs.
DSE Rear ARB with brackets and bushings = 13.7 lbs.

That is a weight savings of 10.3 lbs. So with the DSE front and rear anti-roll bar you can have an adjustable bar with more rate and shed some pounds as well!




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Old 09-10-2014, 12:49 PM   #41
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I apologize if I missed it somewhere.

What is the size of the stock 2010 sway bars?

thanks
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Old 09-10-2014, 12:54 PM   #42
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what does FE3, FE4 mean?
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Old 09-10-2014, 01:07 PM   #43
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what does FE3, FE4 mean?
There are different generations of suspensions on these cars. I think, that anything prior to FE5 has inboard rear sway bar end links. FE5 (ZL1) and FE6 (1LE) have an outboard mounted rear bar. I believe that is the primary difference in the suspensions. 2010 to 2012 had the FE3 or FE4 not sure when the change was. I'm not sure what the standard suspension is on the Camaro though.

Note that the GTO and the G8 have FE2 and the G8 GXP had the FE3.

I'm sure there is more to it but there is a general description.

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Old 09-10-2014, 02:12 PM   #44
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The only real difference between the two are where the sway bars attach. FE3 attaches inside the spring/shock assembly. FE4 has a wider bar that attaches outside.

FE3 can be found on 2010 & 2011 SS Coupes, and 2010-2012 SS Convertibles. FE4 is on SS's newer than that.
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Old 09-10-2014, 07:24 PM   #45
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FE2 = V6 10-15
FE3 = 10-11 SS coupe and 10-15 SS convertibles
FE4 = 12-15 SS coupe
FE5 = ZL1
FE6 = 1LE
FEA = Z28

V6 models require a rear brake upgrade for the FE4+ rear sway bar upgrade.

10-11 SS models require 2012+ rear lower control arms and rear GM or DSE endlinks for the FE4 upgrade.

ALL 2012+ models have the updated rear lower control arms to accommodate for FE4+ sway bars

12-15 Convertibles can upgrade to FE4+ with an FE4+ style rear bar and rear GM or DSE endlinks. (10-11 will require the rear lower control arms as well)

Hope this clears a few things up. As always; I'm always happy to answer questions. Feel free to call PM or email me anytime!

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Old 09-10-2014, 07:33 PM   #46
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Well you cleared that all up for us Tyler. Thanks.

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