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Old 08-28-2009, 07:52 PM   #226
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BassGeek View Post
I'm impressed by all the passion about backup sensors. I don't think I care one way or another, but there seems to be some misunderstanding. The only way you'd get the sensors is if you get the 1LT w/ the SRJ package or the 2LT or 2SS. So, if you are all about performance, I am guessing that you have or want the SS. The things that the 2SS has that you can't get on a 1SS are

Bluetooth, PDIM, USB port, steering wheel-mounted audio controls, leather-wrapped steering wheel and shift knob, cargo convenience net, remote vehicle starter system (with AT), Universal Home Remote, Heated leather seats, heated side mirror; driver-side auto-dimming, inside rearview auto-dimming mirror, and the gauge cluster.

Apart from the gauge cluster, these are not performance (more muscle) options. If you really don't like the backup sensors, 1SS with aftermarket gauges may be a good choice. Just a thought.

My 2LT will be my daily commuter, so I am looking forward to the comfort and gas savings in a damn fun, good looking car.
Wow, very good point... Great post!

Quote:
Originally Posted by SlingShot View Post
I'm an old fart, I like all the bells and whistles on a car. I grew up with crank windows, drum brakes, pump windshield washers ..... If you want to rough it just buy the base model and build it the way you want ....
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Old 08-28-2009, 08:53 PM   #227
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this should have been as the first car came off the line
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Old 08-28-2009, 09:22 PM   #228
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Originally Posted by WildClay View Post
Actually HUD sounds kind of marginal until you have had one, when it came with my first Grand Prix GTP, I thought on the test drive, I am glad I can turn it off, but after having now over 8 years on 2 GP's I have to say they are great and I am already looking at after-market ones to add to my Camaro for just the speed, I have not had to look down for speed in a very long time now. That said, nothing can match factory installed HUD...
I had it in my 2000 GTP. I didn't like it at all the first month or so but that quickly changed. Had to have it changed 2x under warranty and the time it went bad till i got into the dealer I was like
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Old 08-28-2009, 09:40 PM   #229
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long thread.
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Old 08-28-2009, 09:56 PM   #230
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I have my car already and wont retro fit my car but I will tell everyone now its a good idea to have the sensers.
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Old 08-28-2009, 10:00 PM   #231
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This is a great option to have, there are blind spots when trying to parallel park. What you might not realize is that insurance companies gather data on all new models for the first 3 model years. They want to know the expected frequency and severity of claims of a particular model. This option will help keep our insurance rates down, especially in crowded urban areas!
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Old 08-28-2009, 10:03 PM   #232
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which is more?

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Originally Posted by GOLDDOG View Post
Back up sensors on your muscle cars, not good. I have them on our minivan and thats where they belong. Bet ya the Mustang and Challenger forums will have a field day with this option.
Not as much fun as they will have posting pics of Camaros that have backed over curbs, puppies, Mustangs, Challengers, siblings etc. I say bring on the sensors.

Also, let them talk we can laugh when we post 1/4 mile numbers
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Old 08-29-2009, 12:08 AM   #233
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--I haven't had the chance to read thru the entire thread but I'll add my two cents....

We discussed this with our Camaro Disciples because we felt it was important to get the Enthusiast point of view. (It was my belief that more buyers who did not necessarily ever own a Camaro would want this feature....and I wish I'd held off buying Mom Settlemire her Camaro just to get this feature) The disciples felt that it was well worth offering.

In a perfect world, we'd offer every option as a 'free-standing' option.....but it would certainly add substantial cost if we didn't have packages -- further, it makes assembly much more difficult and more mistakes could occur.

We were the last manufacturer, I believe, to 'de-proliferate' -- the Imports have very few choices -- Stripped, Middle, Loaded -- that's it.......

So the decision was not made in a vacuum.....

We worked hard to make the system as concealed as possible. You receive an audible warning -- no lights.
Fbodfather...since you're in the know...can you shed any light on the question many folks are asking? For those of us who really, really want this feature, but whose cars are already past 2000, will there be a way to retro-fit at our dealer (or anywhere else)? This is a big, big deal for some of us!

Appreciate any help or further info on this specific situation...there are apparently a good number of us who want to know!

Thanks in advance
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Old 08-29-2009, 02:21 AM   #234
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Originally Posted by Speedfreak View Post
I had it in my 2000 GTP. I didn't like it at all the first month or so but that quickly changed. Had to have it changed 2x under warranty and the time it went bad till i got into the dealer I was like
I know the feeling, in my first GP I was without it for like a week while the dealer waited for a part and I had no idea how addicted to it I had become.

This is why I searched out after-market ones, none really very good, so I will settle for a cheap GPS based one that is speed and direction only. Since I use it really for speed it should be ok. What I hate though is you have to put on a reflective piece on the windshield to make it work right. I have it in a box here, I got it on eBay, but still not sure if I will go through with it...
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Old 08-29-2009, 02:28 AM   #235
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Quote:
Originally Posted by CamaroScotty View Post
That's right, some people have said the view out of a Camaro is limited..But as of August 31st, Camaro's will be built with back up sensors. A new feature for those with cars on order!

Back up sensors will be included on the 2SS, 2LT and 1LT w/SRJ package.

Thanks for the Info Scotty, love or hate'em at least we know! I had no idea the topic would be this emotional though...
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Old 08-29-2009, 08:56 AM   #236
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Originally Posted by bolteon593 View Post


in all honesty, who the **** are you?


are you the general public?


are you the panel of 12 gear heads that were the ones who suggested that this be a good idea?




i can not understand some of you people with your high ******* horse attitude that you need what you want and there's nothing else about it.


go away, your part of the reason why the 4th gen went away to begin with (along with your whinning how things should be options and the way you want them which increases costs and when only so few people buy those things well then a car goes the way of the dodo)


realize for once and for all that this car is meant to appeal to all people of all walks of life and that's the way it needs to be if you still want to drive a camaro in 5 years.

take it with a grain of salt that cause they add one or two features that it causese enough of the general public to buy enough camaro's that the next powerhouse is a feasible developement through GM.


pardon my language but i am so damn sick and tired of people bitching about things that in the end are the better for a car they supposedly care about (when in fact all they care about is themselves 94% of the time).


and one more thing. just for a second think that people might actually enjoy this feature. i drive perfectly well on my own and dont need a system, but if there's something that lets me know when i'm 1-2 feet away from a car behind me while i'm parellel parking, then i wont need to put the car in neutral and hike up my parking brake just so i can step outside and make sure that i'm not about to hit the guy behind me thanks to that beautiful high honched rear end.


and to those who put a damnation to technology that helps people (and in many cases gives people a crutch) go screw yourself and ride around on a LSX 454 sled with 4 wheels and a tranny, there's your barebones ride.



//end rant
Wow. I hate them too. Want to go at it with me?
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Old 08-29-2009, 09:00 AM   #237
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Originally Posted by off1c3r View Post
It will probably look something like this, which to me isn't that bad:


(you don't even notice them at first)
They look like the back-up lights to me in that picture, of they are the rectangular things...
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Old 08-29-2009, 09:22 AM   #238
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Originally Posted by 3BVert View Post
If a dealer ordered the car to sell in the showroom (STOCK order), the cars will automatically get the park assist and the price will go up.

If the dealer ordered a car for a specific person (SOLD order), park assist MUST be added if it is lower than 2000. If it is 2000 or higher, park assist will not be added.

That's how I read it.
I would also add that some dealers, such as mine, for whatever reason, place all of their orders as "STOCK", I found this out only this week while trying to figure out something else.

So you might want to ask your dealer if your order is in as "STOCK" or "SOLD" it looks like it makes a difference for this and it may have been a contributor to the other change in my order.
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Old 08-29-2009, 09:23 AM   #239
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Quote:
Originally Posted by WildClay View Post
They look like the back-up lights to me in that picture, of they are the rectangular things...

They are at the bottom of the red fascia below the backup lights.... See the small red indents....
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Old 08-29-2009, 09:57 AM   #240
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Originally Posted by SlingShot View Post
They are at the bottom of the red fascia below the backup lights.... See the small red indents....


Yes, after I slugged through the entire thread which I should have done before posting I guess, I see that those are the back-up lights I was looking and the back-up sensors or for lack of a better term, an "artists rendering" of what they may look like.

<not directed to you SlingShot, just took advantage of a "reply-point" to slip this in>

Speaking from the position of a self-proclaimed non-enthusiest but one who is passionate about his selection of a 2010 Camaro (or I would not be 5 months and waiting still...), I think a number of people hit the nail on the head, GM is targeting the mainstream while not trying to ruin the experience for the true Camaro enthusiest, but without out us mainstreamers (or are warmly referred to here as: everyday'ers, V6'ers, commuters, can't drive people) there would be no GM and no Camaro, we are the ones who buy the vast majority of the cars.

I can say without a doubt that if the Camaro had not already offered a pretty feature rich set of do-dads I likely would not have bought one. I can understand the feeling that they should be optional, but I also understand the reality of making too many options from a cost perspective, and somewhere in the mix has to be consideration for insurance, safety, etc... Seems difficult to ever hit a perfect balance so if they are to err it is going to be to the mainstream if they want to survive.

Putting the 300 bucks aside, from my read of the enthusiests / mods sections on here this crowd is pretty self-suffecient, so I can't imagine that removing or disabling the system is going to be all that difficut if it is that important they not have it.

As for me pile on more, I would love a factory installed HUD (or even an after the fact dealer-installed option but I doubt that will happen), I would also have liked to have had a spoiler option for the color I picked, but on the gadget side I would also like to have that lane change warning system in the side mirrors I have seen, that tell you there is a car in your blind spot.

Many of us everyday'ers want a classy ride, but we also tend to like the creature comforts like heated leather seats, remote-start, automatic transmissions, traction control (as long is it can be turned off when needed), a nice sound system, DIC & HUD, sun-roofs and not just to remove the burn-out smoke as our most likely burn-outs will be from heavy breaking to avoid hitting someone, electric seats, auto dimming mirrors, front and side airbags, would not mind having lower air bags to protect the legs also, and the list goes on and on.

So the real pure muscle car enthusiest while annoyed a little should be glad us everyday'ers are out there so you have a platform to work on, and if it is any consolation, I love seeing the stuff you do to the cars, as we get the bragging rights about the cars potential
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Old 08-29-2009, 10:14 AM   #241
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Quote:
Originally Posted by WildClay View Post
I would also add that some dealers, such as mine, for whatever reason, place all of their orders as "STOCK", I found this out only this week while trying to figure out something else.

So you might want to ask your dealer if your order is in as "STOCK" or "SOLD" it looks like it makes a difference for this and it may have been a contributor to the other change in my order.
Glad that got straigtend out!
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Old 08-29-2009, 10:39 AM   #242
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Glad that got straigtend out!
I think I am out of the woods, it is still a work in progress I think but thanks I am in a FAR better position now than this time last week. Hope to get word soon on the "lock-in" will let you know
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Old 08-29-2009, 12:33 PM   #243
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This is just my opinion but I don't think they should be a part of a package. I think they should be an add on.

That said, I have to believe it is more cost effective for GM to tack that on as part of the convenience package which is probably why they are not giving a choice. (Please correct me if I am wrong here)

My personal vote (as if it'll change anything...) would be to leave them off altogether.

I am under the impression that just like any other automatic "aid", people will just ignore them in familiar situations. For example, my wife and I have sensors on another vehicle and they always beep at us when backing out of the garage. They catch the garage door frame and then the shrubs next to our driveway. My point here is that we still have to pay close attention to make sure our kids are not behind the vehicle. I have to think that more careless people will just ignore the sensors and not pay attention to what may be behind them.

Ultimately, they are not a replacement for careful driving and awareness of your surroundings.

Just my $0.02...
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Old 08-29-2009, 04:30 PM   #244
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HUD won't be free either....the more goodies, the more price gets out of reach.
All the more reason to let people choose the goodies they want and NOT foist them on people who don't want them!
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Old 08-29-2009, 04:53 PM   #245
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I am sick of posers who claim to be enthusiest. Putting this lame system on the Camaro isn't going to make one person change their mind to buy it over a competitive vehicle. maybe not on the 1SS? Of course I am sure HUD won't be either.........sheesh

The list grows.

1. Remove Onstar
2. Remove shark fin
3. Remove parking assist.
4. Remove tq management.

OK -- I'll address you first -- and then some comments on the subject at large.

We have 15 "Disciples" -- each one of them an "Enthusiast" -- moreover, they are VERY ENTHUSIASTIC Enthusiasts -- because they are webmasters/moderators/club presidents -- the group represents all 4 generations of Camaro -- plus Firebird -- plus Corvette.

They are not 'posers' -- rather, they are the ones who have spent thousands and thousands of hours over the past decade working so that we (thats you and me) could hit websites and talk -- or so we could go to Enthusiast Events and have a great time -- they're the ones who answer questions to so many..........

In fact -- each of them spent a lot of time on this site and others -- allowing people to make their thoughts known as the car was in development.............that was not always an easy thing to do.

Let me say it again: They are not "posers"......

We discussed this option and every other one (including some coming later...)

.....they all felt after a discussion that we should offer this on the uplevel packages (they initially wanted it free-flow, but due to deproliferation we could not do it..)

So -- be careful flaming Enthusiasts or calling people 'posers' (which, I must say, I found offensive...)

-- each of us is unique in our own way.


Now -- a comment at large:



As to the rear fascia.......let's take a walk down memory lane, shall we?


There was the first picture of a White Camaro in a garage - the first real pic. of a 5th gen without cammo........

THE WORLD WAS COMING TO AN END!!!!! OMG!!!! IT'S A FAT PIG THAT LOOKS NOTHING LIKE THE CONCEPT -- NOTHING!!!!!!! "Let's kill the Camaro Team!!!!"


..............and then there was the 'mail slot' on the SS Fascia...........


UGLIEST CAR EVER BUILT!!!!!! ""Let's kill the Camaro Team!!!!"




.......................and THEN there was the 'unique' SS front fascia..........



BLASPHEMY!!!! UGLY!!!! MAKES SMALL CHILDREN RUN CRYING FROM THE ROOM!!!!.............."Let's kill the Camaro Team!!!!"



................and THEN there was the first pics of the interior............



GO TO YOUR "MERRIAM-WEBSTER DICTIONARY" -AND LOOK UP THE WORD 'UGLY' -- AND THERE IT IS! A CAMARO SS!!!
"Let's kill the Camaro Team!!!!"




..........LEST WE FORGET.......... THE BACKUP LIGHTS!!!!



OMG!!!! This is worse than -- well -- we don't know -- but it's worse!!!!............ "Let's kill the Camaro Team!!!!"


..........and the list of "Panics du Jour" and "Panics du Month" could go on and on and on..................


.....and guess what? Nearly every one of these 'panics' are non-issues today.


So calm down.

The world is not coming to an end.
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Old 08-29-2009, 05:03 PM   #246
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Simply not for me. In my humble opinion, it is an unnecessary tool. I learn where my corners are, and would never trust those sensors anyway. Back up Camera makes way more sense for so many reasons.


Glad I got my Camaro BEFORE these were put on.
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Old 08-29-2009, 05:46 PM   #247
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OK -- I'll address you first -- and then some comments on the subject at large.

We have 15 "Disciples" -- each one of them an "Enthusiast" -- moreover, they are VERY ENTHUSIASTIC Enthusiasts -- because they are webmasters/moderators/club presidents -- the group represents all 4 generations of Camaro -- plus Firebird -- plus Corvette.

They are not 'posers' -- rather, they are the ones who have spent thousands and thousands of hours over the past decade working so that we (thats you and me) could hit websites and talk -- or so we could go to Enthusiast Events and have a great time -- they're the ones who answer questions to so many..........

In fact -- each of them spent a lot of time on this site and others -- allowing people to make their thoughts known as the car was in development.............that was not always an easy thing to do.

Let me say it again: They are not "posers"......

We discussed this option and every other one (including some coming later...)

.....they all felt after a discussion that we should offer this on the uplevel packages (they initially wanted it free-flow, but due to deproliferation we could not do it..)

So -- be careful flaming Enthusiasts or calling people 'posers' (which, I must say, I found offensive...)

-- each of us is unique in our own way.


Now -- a comment at large:

As to the rear fascia.......let's take a walk down memory lane, shall we?

There was the first picture of a White Camaro in a garage - the first real pic. of a 5th gen without cammo........

THE WORLD WAS COMING TO AN END!!!!! OMG!!!! IT'S A FAT PIG THAT LOOKS NOTHING LIKE THE CONCEPT -- NOTHING!!!!!!! "Let's kill the Camaro Team!!!!"

..............and then there was the 'mail slot' on the SS Fascia...........

UGLIEST CAR EVER BUILT!!!!!! ""Let's kill the Camaro Team!!!!"

.......................and THEN there was the 'unique' SS front fascia..........

BLASPHEMY!!!! UGLY!!!! MAKES SMALL CHILDREN RUN CRYING FROM THE ROOM!!!!.............."Let's kill the Camaro Team!!!!"

................and THEN there was the first pics of the interior............

GO TO YOUR "MERRIAM-WEBSTER DICTIONARY" -AND LOOK UP THE WORD 'UGLY' -- AND THERE IT IS! A CAMARO SS!!!
"Let's kill the Camaro Team!!!!"

..........LEST WE FORGET.......... THE BACKUP LIGHTS!!!!

OMG!!!! This is worse than -- well -- we don't know -- but it's worse!!!!............ "Let's kill the Camaro Team!!!!"

..........and the list of "Panics du Jour" and "Panics du Month" could go on and on and on..................

.....and guess what? Nearly every one of these 'panics' are non-issues today.

So calm down.

The world is not coming to an end.
Not sure I get your point. So you ran a focus group on the internet. To clarify I meant to say performance enthusiast.


Regarding your general comments. Sounds like you are over dramatizing just a tad. While some of those things listed are valid concerns, I am not sure anybody was calling for the firing squad. Well maybe some mustang guys since the Camaro recently outsold them for the first time since 93 and can hand them their ass on a platter
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Old 08-29-2009, 08:04 PM   #248
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Old 08-29-2009, 08:08 PM   #249
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Not sure I get your point. So you ran a focus group on the internet. To clarify I meant to say performance enthusiast.

no
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Old 08-30-2009, 12:51 AM   #250
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Location: Oregon USA
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