Camaro5 Chevy Camaro Forum / Camaro ZL1, SS and V6 Forums - Camaro5.com
 
Bigwormgraphix
Go Back   Camaro5 Chevy Camaro Forum / Camaro ZL1, SS and V6 Forums - Camaro5.com > Engine | Drivetrain | Powertrain Technical Discussions > Camaro V8 LS3 / L99 Engine, Exhaust, and Bolt-Ons


Reply
 
Thread Tools
Old 03-18-2007, 07:16 AM   #99
z28camaro2471
C5 Member #227
 
z28camaro2471's Avatar
 
Drives: Camaros
Join Date: Sep 2006
Location: NY
Posts: 808
It wouldn't be the first time that engine and transmission options were linked in the Camaro. When the 5.7 IROC came out, you could only get it with an auto because the 5 speed wasn't up to the task. No matter what they end up doing, I'm buying a 6 speed. No automatics for me!
z28camaro2471 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-18-2007, 10:05 AM   #100
Casull

 
Casull's Avatar
 
Drives: Chevy Silverado
Join Date: Oct 2006
Location: Indianapolis
Posts: 754
Quote:
Originally Posted by z28camaro2471 View Post
It wouldn't be the first time that engine and transmission options were linked in the Camaro. When the 5.7 IROC came out, you could only get it with an auto because the 5 speed wasn't up to the task. No matter what they end up doing, I'm buying a 6 speed. No automatics for me!


Same here!
Casull is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-18-2007, 03:43 PM   #101
SSRich
 
SSRich's Avatar
 
Drives: 1967 camaroSS
Join Date: Mar 2007
Location: va
Posts: 239
Quote:
Originally Posted by TAG UR IT View Post
It just doesn't make sense to me that they would have two seperate V8's for the same level Car...and only having different engines due to different trannys. I'm thinking one could be just a regular old base V8 Camaro, then another for an SS, and the last being the Z28. Heck, I don't know. What would the base Camaro be called? Would it be an RS package? Or, would the base Camaro be called an SS with the next bump up being the SS/RS again w/ the top being Z28?

I think the person to ask to answer the main question is right here....GMPowertrain.

Is it necessary to have one engine for an auto and another V8 for a manual? I'm not asking what's going into the Camaro...you're sworn to secrecy. But, could you shed some light on this?
When was the Z28 ever top dog? When they didn't have a camaro SS for a few of the generations Z28 was top dog but when the SS camaro was offered it was the top dog.
SSRich is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-18-2007, 06:51 PM   #102
SoFlaZ

 
SoFlaZ's Avatar
 
Drives: Nothing special :-(
Join Date: Feb 2007
Location: FL
Posts: 940
I doubt that there will be a different base V8 for each transmission. The only difference i think will be a few hp MAYBE because of the auto's torque converter or w/e. But i really have no idea, im just waiting.
SoFlaZ is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-18-2007, 07:37 PM   #103
Mungo
 
Drives: trans am
Join Date: Jul 2006
Location: suffolk
Posts: 363
If no one minds me adding my two cents worth. A 400HP engine is just that 400Hp requardless of transmission. Where the type of transmission comes into play is at the rear wheels. A manual transmission will reduce 400HP to around 350-357 HP. An automatic tranny will reduce 400HP to around 338-347 HP. But take heart. STS Turbo has a twin turbo system that replaces the mufflers with two turbos. They have them for LT1 LS1 engines. They took a C-6 corvette with 350 RWHP put their kit on it and booted RWHP by 39% with 5PSI of boost and boosted RWHP by 59% with 7PSI boost. That's 136 - 203 HP gain. We're talking 486-553HP at the rear wheels. Plus testimonials all have said they increased MPG by 4. Kick A** and save gas. Yes Virginia there is a Santa Claus.
Mungo is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-18-2007, 09:06 PM   #104
MintStick
Camaro 2timer
 
Drives: 02 SS Coupe
Join Date: Mar 2007
Location: Northwest, OH
Posts: 4
Guys over 50 may remember. Camaro never had "SS" and "Z28" on same car. GM tried to introduce this on 4th gen and purist shot it down before production. Back in 60's/70's you could order a car special by adding order number designations (1LE and COPO are the ones everyone knows). Those days are gone. The "SS" was always given to the "sporty" model, but even that one could be ordered with delete options. I agree with 'stevenm357'; GM lowered standards with Cobalt "SS". The 4th gen didn't have apparent difference between "SS" and "Z28"; the "SS" and "Z28" packages gave you what you got - not many changes you could make. In '68 you could get an "SS" with BB or SB, but "Z28" came with 302 SB. Back then the "SS" was KING in hp, but both were hot cars to have.

I think GM will come out with both SS and Z28, but I'd like the SS badge dropped because the perception of power has been diluted through the years with GM marketing trying to gain buyers with that designation. The "Z28" holds value cause it belongs to Camaros. Since the LS motors are small blocks, even the purists can be happy. For a production car to fit the market, it will need more than hp. I can't wait to hear more about engines and ratings for new Camaro, but there is so much more. I heard that IRS was likely.

My 4th gen is a thrill to drive - especially diggin hard in the corners and it rides nice for long trips. It has adequate HP but it needs more for seat-of-the-pants go. My first gen has better go with 450hp rating, but it too needs more. You'll never be satisfied with hp - more is always better. One thing to remember is that to use the hp on street, you need insurance. Has anyone priced coverage for 500hp? I'm guessing it'll be 1200/yr + for good driving records for guys (and gals) over 30. Heard that when the Viper came out, half of the cars were in accidents within first year. Too much hp for street. I know Camaro drivers are much better qualified, but things happen fast in traffic.

Just some thoughts - sorry for running on with the mouth.
MintStick is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-18-2007, 09:47 PM   #105
Casull

 
Casull's Avatar
 
Drives: Chevy Silverado
Join Date: Oct 2006
Location: Indianapolis
Posts: 754
Quote:
Originally Posted by MintStick View Post
One thing to remember is that to use the hp on street, you need insurance. Has anyone priced coverage for 500hp? I'm guessing it'll be 1200/yr + for good driving records for guys (and gals) over 30. Heard that when the Viper came out, half of the cars were in accidents within first year. Too much hp for street. I know Camaro drivers are much better qualified, but things happen fast in traffic.

Just some thoughts - sorry for running on with the mouth.
That is a very good point actually. I went on Progressive really quick just to see what the insurance would be on a GT500 since it is the most comparable car in production today. $1011/year for me (I am 25) OUCH!. Needless to say that is not going to cut it!

There was a great thread started on another forum discussing the topic of HP and at what point is there just too much HP? This was a major point of conversation, but I personally still haven't determined when I think a certain level of HP is too much for the street. I mean it obviously comes down to how you drive individually. I mean a kid can turn a 150 hp car into a projectile just as deadily as a 500 HP car, but it is the availability of the 500 HP that makes us want to punch it a lot harder. But where do we cross that line. I can guarantee you that I don't punch the gas on my wife's Civic ever, but you get me behind the wheel of a GTO and I can go through a tank of gas in about 30 mins. So, when does a certain level of HP become just too much HP for the street? 350, 400, 450, 550? Personally I think the same guy that is likely to wreck a 350HP car is just as likely to wreck a 500HP car.

I am rambling now, so I will just let others weigh in.
Casull is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-18-2007, 10:02 PM   #106
Mr. Wyndham
I used to be Dragoneye...
 
Mr. Wyndham's Avatar
 
Drives: 2014 1LE...Drove: 2012 ZL1
Join Date: Jan 2007
Location: Buffalo, NY
Posts: 28,199
Send a message via AIM to Mr. Wyndham
I've said it before, unless your racing, 400 is about all you need to have fun. Anything over that really won't make much difference on the streets, because these things exist called speed limits...yeah, they're out there. some guys(and gals), just like to have the numbers in their belt. the higher the better, but if you go to high, then you're just paying more for the same ride as far as I'm concerned.

Oh and don't get petty, with the whole 425hp thing: 25 more than 400...get serious!
__________________
"Keep the faith." - - Read Twice Before You Post.
...Anxiously waiting to order a silver "Z"...

Mr. Wyndham is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-18-2007, 10:19 PM   #107
MintStick
Camaro 2timer
 
Drives: 02 SS Coupe
Join Date: Mar 2007
Location: Northwest, OH
Posts: 4
If you've got good exhaust tone, it don't matter if it's 400 hp or 600 hp, you get respect. Hope US Gov doesn't restrict engineers too much and the car can sound like it'll perform even when it's at idle.
MintStick is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-19-2007, 08:18 AM   #108
LSxcellent
 
Drives: MINI Cooper S
Join Date: Jan 2007
Location: Boston, MA
Posts: 284
400hp? Not.

If anyone thinks you can actually use 400hp on the street, the don't live in the USA! There is NOWHERE on a street that you could realistically use 400hp.

It only takes ~ 80hp to go 80mph.

From a standing start I doubt you could hook more than 200-300hp on your average street asphalt (less if you live in the N. East).

Hell, even if your running to the grocery store on drag radials you probably couldn't use that much hp...

But we all want more don't we? For my part, I plan on taking more visits to race tracks, SCCA events, and closed course driving training events to make use of all this newfound hp, as thats the only real place to actually use it!

550hp LS9? Yes please!

~LSx
LSxcellent is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-19-2007, 09:09 AM   #109
Casull

 
Casull's Avatar
 
Drives: Chevy Silverado
Join Date: Oct 2006
Location: Indianapolis
Posts: 754
Quote:
Originally Posted by LSxcellent View Post
If anyone thinks you can actually use 400hp on the street, the don't live in the USA! There is NOWHERE on a street that you could realistically use 400hp.

It only takes ~ 80hp to go 80mph.

From a standing start I doubt you could hook more than 200-300hp on your average street asphalt (less if you live in the N. East).

Hell, even if your running to the grocery store on drag radials you probably couldn't use that much hp...

But we all want more don't we? For my part, I plan on taking more visits to race tracks, SCCA events, and closed course driving training events to make use of all this newfound hp, as thats the only real place to actually use it!

550hp LS9? Yes please!

~LSx

It is sort of strange how your perception can change. I remember in the early 90's thinking that 300hp was a serious amount of hp and then when the late 4th gens hit with the LS1 and were laying down 350hp by numerous reports, I thought initially, what in the world would you do with all of that power!

Then the LS2 came along and I test drove the GTO. After awhile I thought 400hp was a good amount of hp and was no longer in awe of the 350 hp mark. Now I am trying to wrap my head around 430hp with the good possibility of 450hp with some very simple modifications... Holy crap! I can honestly say that I would have never thought 10-15 years ago that 400+ hp would be the norm in muscle cars, let alone 550! Are we at that point when we look at a 500hp car and scuff thinking it is just a run-of-the-mill muscle car? That is A LOT of power!

Something else I was thinking of was, although they are substantially increasing the power on these motors, are we actually getting what we are paying for or will GM and other manufacturers severely cripple the car through torque management instead of beefing up the drivetrain to handle the added power. I mean 425HP is a lot of power, but only if we are actually able to use all of that power.
Casull is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-19-2007, 11:40 AM   #110
LSxcellent
 
Drives: MINI Cooper S
Join Date: Jan 2007
Location: Boston, MA
Posts: 284
I think this trend will continue as long as we have non-hybrid sports cars... hp will always sell cars because it means fun-to-drive. But in reality, we like high HP cars because they generate a lot of TORQUE... and TORQUE is what makes a car feel fast.

(I don't mean necessarily the ENGINE makes the torque, sometimes its a high revving engine combined with a good gearbox that generates the torque at the rear wheels that gives that sporty feeling)

I think that hybrid cars will upset this trend a bit because electric motors can generate TONS of torque at zero RPM. An all electric drivetrain with good controls could theoretically smoke ANY internal combustion engine in a drag race. There are a few demonstrator cars (including the new ZAP Inc. hybrid SUV) that have electric motors mounted in the wheels.

These cars will one day replace big-block IC engines as the performance kings... there is just no way to really compete with the torque production and wheel-speed control an electric drivetrain gives you...

But I am a design engineer for robot-drivetrains, so you could see why I might be biased this way.

~LSx
LSxcellent is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-19-2007, 11:53 AM   #111
rray200
 
Drives: 2014 Mustang GT 5.0 Track Pack
Join Date: Dec 2006
Location: Ottawa, Canada
Posts: 290
Quote:
Originally Posted by LSxcellent View Post
If anyone thinks you can actually use 400hp on the street, the don't live in the USA! There is NOWHERE on a street that you could realistically use 400hp.

It only takes ~ 80hp to go 80mph.

From a standing start I doubt you could hook more than 200-300hp on your average street asphalt (less if you live in the N. East).

Hell, even if your running to the grocery store on drag radials you probably couldn't use that much hp...

But we all want more don't we? For my part, I plan on taking more visits to race tracks, SCCA events, and closed course driving training events to make use of all this newfound hp, as thats the only real place to actually use it!

550hp LS9? Yes please!

~LSx

You know what, I say they should scrap this whole LS3/LS9 business, even scrap the 3.9L V6 idea and just make the Iron Duke engine standard. That, and throw on some 15 inch wire wheels on 60 series tires.
rray200 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-19-2007, 12:18 PM   #112
Casull

 
Casull's Avatar
 
Drives: Chevy Silverado
Join Date: Oct 2006
Location: Indianapolis
Posts: 754
Quote:
Originally Posted by LSxcellent View Post
I think this trend will continue as long as we have non-hybrid sports cars... hp will always sell cars because it means fun-to-drive. But in reality, we like high HP cars because they generate a lot of TORQUE... and TORQUE is what makes a car feel fast.

~LSx
Do you mean the trend of high HP cars, or increasing HP in cars? agree that Hp will remain high, but I really have to wonder how high they will go. IMO 425-450 hp is boarderline rediculous for anyone who who does not have any intentions in using this car to race in some way (not street racing). Of course Iwill still get one even though i think it is rediculous (counterintuitive, i know).

But seriously, of the people that will buy a new camaro with 400-450Hp, how many would actually notice the difference in a 350HP Camaro and taken even further, how many will actually use the 75-100 extra HP?

I think what will eventually happen is that insurance companies will ruin the horsepower wars and we will resort back to the 300-350 range... guess we will have to wait and see.
Casull is offline   Reply With Quote
 
Reply

Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump


All times are GMT -5. The time now is 01:06 PM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.9 Beta 4
Copyright ©2000 - 2016, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.