Camaro5 Chevy Camaro Forum / Camaro ZL1, SS and V6 Forums - Camaro5.com
 
Phastek Performance
Go Back   Camaro5 Chevy Camaro Forum / Camaro ZL1, SS and V6 Forums - Camaro5.com > General Camaro Forums > 5th Gen Camaro SS LS LT General Discussions


Reply
 
Thread Tools
Old 07-21-2008, 05:35 PM   #71
radz28
Petro-sexual
 
radz28's Avatar
 
Drives: Ultra-Grin
Join Date: Oct 2006
Location: Crapramento, Crapifornia
Posts: 13,057
Quote:
Originally Posted by Chogan2200 View Post
well...I guess you can't quite have your cake and eat it too??

trust me, I'm not mechanic and correct me if I'm wrong but isn't it true that within the last 30 years, Automotive Engineers have been able to figure out how to make big fast cars weigh less with different types of metal....??? perhaps??
__________________
05 Hummer H2 SUV on OEM Air Ride
Forged 11.1:1 408 LQ4 (K1 crank & rods; Mahle pistons)/CPP LS3 CNC heads/BTR Stage IV LS3 cam and valvetrain/home ported L92 intake manifold/ported 90mm TB/custom Volant CAI/mid-length headers/AFE dual 3" CB/Corvette Servo/el cheapo lift/Cognito UCAs/e'fan conversion/aluminum radiator/Moroso catchcan/HPTuners by me/LED exterior lighting/Pioneer AVH-5600BHS/Pioneer GM-9601/2-Pioneer TS-W310D4/Obcon Labyrinth dual-12 box/lots of other stuff
radz28 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-21-2008, 05:45 PM   #72
DGthe3
Moderator.ca
 
DGthe3's Avatar
 
Drives: 05 Grand Am GT
Join Date: Jul 2007
Location: Niagara, Canada
Posts: 23,428
Send a message via MSN to DGthe3
Whatever it is, I'm sure its the standard that all cars use when describing weight.
__________________
Note, if I've gotten any facts wrong in the above, just ignore any points I made with them
__________________
Originally Posted by FbodFather
My sister's dentist's brother's cousin's housekeeper's dog-breeder's nephew sells coffee filters to the company that provides coffee to General Motors......
........and HE WOULD KNOW!!!!
__________________

Camaro Fest sub-forum
DGthe3 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-21-2008, 05:58 PM   #73
AZCamaroFan
Camaro Vanguard
 
AZCamaroFan's Avatar
 
Drives: sometimes
Join Date: Mar 2008
Location: Phoenix
Posts: 17,353
the automatic car is 53 pounds heavier????

I must say i am severely disappointed in the cars weight. gas is $4 a gallon. if the V8 gets 15/23 mpg, remember that is even with cylinder deactivation. and that 23 is if you hold steady at 55 mph. what about 65-70? 20 mpg?
i remember when the mustang gt 500 came out at 13 pounds shy of 4,000 i mocked it.
AZCamaroFan is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-21-2008, 06:33 PM   #74
kevin2323


 
Drives: challenger
Join Date: Jul 2008
Location: miami
Posts: 2,338
Yep i knew this car would be similar in weight to its competition. But guess what? That means my challenger will actually be competitive yeyyyyy. I love competition.
kevin2323 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-21-2008, 06:36 PM   #75
Mr. Wyndham
I used to be Dragoneye...
 
Mr. Wyndham's Avatar
 
Drives: 2014 1LE...Drove: 2012 ZL1
Join Date: Jan 2007
Location: Buffalo, NY
Posts: 28,084
Send a message via AIM to Mr. Wyndham
Then maybe the mocking should stop...ever care to wonder why weight is so "out of hand"? Is it because engineers across the board got lazy? Is it because everyone is content to build heavy cars?

Maybe there's something more...something like saftey standards that, imo, are out of hand. Maybe there's millions of people who judge a car by its gadgetry, and yet further...maybe it's the wild quest for horsepower that is driving up the power-handling requirements! What would most of you here say to a 3500lb, V6-ONLY Camaro that performed just as well as this one will? Heresy? Blasphemous? "Not a Camaro"?

hmmm...Challenger, GT500(and no doubt soon the rest of the 'stangs), Camaro, GTR (yes, GTR)....something is telling me very loudly that weight is going up across the board...and not just Camaro. Having sat and thought about this for a while, I retract ALL my comments made about the Challenger being a 'Pig'. It's vuloptuous.

I still say that the Camaro won't feel like it weighs as much as it does. The G8 is getting alcolades even though it weights more, and so will the Camaro. Moreso than the G8 I'd say, due to it's performance-orientation. Just don't look at the numbers only and decide it's an underperforming "pig".
__________________
"Keep the faith." - - Read Twice Before You Post.
...Anxiously waiting to order a silver "Z"...

Mr. Wyndham is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-21-2008, 06:37 PM   #76
jmliptak
 
Drives: D
Join Date: May 2008
Location: D
Posts: 373
Quote:
Originally Posted by Chogan2200 View Post
well...I guess you can't quite have your cake and eat it too??

trust me, I'm not mechanic and correct me if I'm wrong but isn't it true that within the last 30 years, Automotive Engineers have been able to figure out how to make big fast cars weigh less with different types of metal....??? perhaps??
They have, but they are cars like Corvettes and Porsches and Ferraris...The definition of the Camaro that has been touted is affordable performance, so you have to walk the line. Looks like it is similar to Dodge and Ford in that respect, you can do it lighter with other materials but both they and how they are processed costs a lot more...Did you ever see the special on Discovery about the Z06, the aluminum frame is built at a Dana factory in Ky and shipped to the plant for assembly, the technology for forming and welding is very different, and you are in a world of hurt if you mess up aluminum frame pieces, they cost a lot more to fix as well...It can be done, but at a cost....
jmliptak is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-21-2008, 06:41 PM   #77
boxmonkeyracing
juggernaut
 
boxmonkeyracing's Avatar
 
Drives: VRSCF, 2011 SS vert
Join Date: Aug 2006
Location: kenly, nc
Posts: 3,343
Send a message via AIM to boxmonkeyracing Send a message via Yahoo to boxmonkeyracing
well don't even give it a chance. . .9 posts wow. wonder if you were ever really going to give it a chance. my guess is no.
__________________
Quote:
Originally Posted by fbodfather View Post
We do not want to use the Z28 moniker on a car that does not deserve this hallowed name.
boxmonkeyracing is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-21-2008, 06:41 PM   #78
kevin2323


 
Drives: challenger
Join Date: Jul 2008
Location: miami
Posts: 2,338
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dragoneye View Post
Then maybe the mocking should stop...ever care to wonder why weight is so "out of hand"? Is it because engineers across the board got lazy? Is it because everyone is content to build heavy cars?

Maybe there's something more...something like saftey standards that, imo, are out of hand. Maybe there's millions of people who judge a car by its gadgetry, and yet further...maybe it's the wild quest for horsepower that is driving up the power-handling requirements! What would most of you here say to a 3500lb, V6-ONLY Camaro that performed just as well as this one will? Heresy? Blasphemous? "Not a Camaro"?

hmmm...Challenger, GT500(and no doubt soon the rest of the 'stangs), Camaro, GTR (yes, GTR)....something is telling me very loudly that weight is going up across the board...and not just Camaro.
Thank you I have been defending most new muscle cars curb weight because of safety standards getting worst every year. About time somebody stopped calling them pigs and used their brain. I predicted the camaros weight to be 3800 -3900 ish and I was right. I can't wait for it to hit the road!
kevin2323 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-21-2008, 06:45 PM   #79
jmliptak
 
Drives: D
Join Date: May 2008
Location: D
Posts: 373
There are lighter cars, but they cost tens of thousands or in some cases hundreds of thousand more. Tag has a point, you want a HUD and halos and a sunroof and dual exhausts, etc, etc, etc. Tradeoffs abound, the real question is which problem you choose to live with. An affordable Camaro or Mustang or Challenger or a really cool one one made of unobtanium that starts at $40K? THAT is the choice...

BTW, the Bugatti Veyron by this definition would be a pig too, but it goes 240 or 250. Course it had a w-16 putting out about 1,000 hp and costs $1.2 million AND has a nine month waiting list...
jmliptak is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-21-2008, 07:00 PM   #80
4thGen
 
Drives: 2005 Chevrolet Cobalt LS
Join Date: Jan 2008
Location: Indiana
Posts: 141
Quote:
Originally Posted by 1fastbusa View Post
The car looks wonderfull. I dont beleive i have seen pics of the ss with the 20inch wheels which would make it even better. But 3860 pounds for the 6 speed ss are you joking? And i know it was going to come with a independant rear but i was wishing for a solid rear. If the weight would have come in at 3500 at had a solid rear i would have sold my cobra and bought 2. Now ill just keep my cobra and buy a 09 c6 maybe a used z06 if i can find a decent used one
You do realize it has been part of the plan that this car get IRS for the past 3 years right? Personally, I didn't expect anything less than 3650, and that was for the V6. This car wasn't made to be super light, and it shouldn't have been expected to be either. I bet it handles awesome though.
4thGen is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-21-2008, 07:12 PM   #81
Mr. Wyndham
I used to be Dragoneye...
 
Mr. Wyndham's Avatar
 
Drives: 2014 1LE...Drove: 2012 ZL1
Join Date: Jan 2007
Location: Buffalo, NY
Posts: 28,084
Send a message via AIM to Mr. Wyndham
Quote:
Originally Posted by jmliptak View Post
There are lighter cars, but they cost tens of thousands or in some cases hundreds of thousand more.
Quote:
Originally Posted by 4thGen View Post
This car wasn't made to be super light, and it shouldn't have been expected to be either. I bet it handles awesome though.
__________________
"Keep the faith." - - Read Twice Before You Post.
...Anxiously waiting to order a silver "Z"...

Mr. Wyndham is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-22-2008, 10:07 AM   #82
theholycow


 
theholycow's Avatar
 
Drives: '02 GMC Sierra, '80 Lesabre
Join Date: Mar 2008
Location: RI
Posts: 1,804
Quote:
Originally Posted by azfan View Post
I must say i am severely disappointed in the cars weight. gas is $4 a gallon. if the V8 gets 15/23 mpg, remember that is even with cylinder deactivation. and that 23 is if you hold steady at 55 mph. what about 65-70? 20 mpg?
i remember when the mustang gt 500 came out at 13 pounds shy of 4,000 i mocked it.
I've been studying this for a while, looking at theory and real world results when people add or remove weight. A few hundred pounds on a nearly two ton car makes ZERO difference in fuel economy. In fact, if you drive reasonably, even larger percentages of weight make zero difference. The main reason that lighter cars get better fuel economy is that they can have smaller, more efficient engines and/or taller gears.

If you accelerate hard all the time and never take your foot off the gas until it's time to shove the brake pedal into the floor, and do a lot of city driving, then a 20% weight difference could give you a measurable fuel economy difference.

As for highway mileage, which seems to be your concern above, weight has almost no bearing on it. Highway mileage is almost 100% about aerodynamic, tire, and drivetrain drag. Even engine size doesn't matter much (with good gears) because large-displacement engines can make the same power at lower RPM, and engine drag goes up exponentially compared to RPM. Blame the aggressive look and the huge ballsy grille of the Camaro for its highway mileage. If it looked like this and was properly geared it would get over 50mpg for sure:


Edit (2008-10-23): Further study has revealed that weight loss can help fuel economy in one situation: A very lightweight car that is severely underpowered. In such a case, it seems that for every 1% weight change, you could see up to or slightly more than 1% fuel economy change.
__________________
Removing weight has surprisingly little effect on fuel economy
Engine break-in procedure | Gear ratios
2002 GMC Sierra 4x4 5.3 (190,000 miles and going strong)
1980 Buick Lesabre family heirloom with 36,000 miles
2008 Volkswagen Rabbit 2 door I5-2.5 5spd DD lease
Quote:
Originally Posted by CamaroSpike23 View Post
she really underestimates the damage i would do to her reproductive organs
http://allOffTopic.com is the place for all the naughty stuff you can't get away with on this forum...

Last edited by theholycow; 10-23-2008 at 12:27 PM.
theholycow is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-22-2008, 10:14 AM   #83
Mr Twisty


 
Mr Twisty's Avatar
 
Drives: the 2nd amendment home
Join Date: May 2008
Location: OK
Posts: 14,006
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dragoneye View Post
Having sat and thought about this for a while, I retract ALL my comments made about the Challenger being a 'Pig'. It's vuloptuous.
Nice headllights baby
__________________
"They that can give up essential liberty to obtain a little temporary safety deserve neither liberty nor safety."
-- Benjamin Franklin
Mr Twisty is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-22-2008, 12:33 PM   #84
mxkx250
 
mxkx250's Avatar
 
Drives: 12 ZL1, 98 Camaro SS, 67 RS/SS
Join Date: Mar 2008
Location: Morgantown, WV
Posts: 369
Send a message via Yahoo to mxkx250
Quote:
I must say i am severely disappointed in the cars weight. gas is $4 a gallon. if the V8 gets 15/23 mpg, remember that is even with cylinder deactivation. and that 23 is if you hold steady at 55 mph. what about 65-70? 20 mpg?
i remember when the mustang gt 500 came out at 13 pounds shy of 4,000 i mocked it.
I am under the understanding that this is how the old epa mileage was applied. The new ones from this year on will be a more real world representation. Testing at actual speed limits. A lot of people complained that they couldn't get the mileage on the sticker. The Government requires a more "real world" representation now.
I have heard that new mileage figures could compare around 3 mpg less than last years figures for the same car.
mxkx250 is offline   Reply With Quote
 
Reply

Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump

Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Camaro Product Manager - interview Moose 5th Gen Camaro SS LS LT General Discussions 11 04-04-2012 06:10 PM
GM memo to dealers Moose 5th Gen Camaro SS LS LT General Discussions 41 02-04-2010 07:33 PM
Official Camaro Convertible CONCEPT Press Release Tran Camaro Convertible Forum 12 11-18-2009 07:05 PM
I'm not sure if I'll buy a 5th Gen. Camaro Moose 5th Gen Camaro SS LS LT General Discussions 68 06-13-2009 05:18 PM
5th Gen Camaro LS3 info from Chevy Hi-Po...READ TAG UR IT Camaro V8 LS3 / L99 Engine, Exhaust, and Bolt-Ons 295 03-07-2008 10:06 AM


All times are GMT -5. The time now is 11:57 PM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.9 Beta 4
Copyright ©2000 - 2016, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.