Camaro5 Chevy Camaro Forum / Camaro ZL1, SS and V6 Forums - Camaro5.com
 
Anthony @ LG Motorsports
Go Back   Camaro5 Chevy Camaro Forum / Camaro ZL1, SS and V6 Forums - Camaro5.com > General Camaro Forums > 5th Gen Camaro SS LS LT General Discussions

5th Gen Camaro SS LS LT General Discussions General 5th generation Camaro topics not covered by other subforums.

Reply
 
Thread Tools
Old 07-21-2008, 06:37 PM   #76
jmliptak
 
Drives: D
Join Date: May 2008
Location: D
Posts: 373
Quote:
Originally Posted by Chogan2200 View Post
well...I guess you can't quite have your cake and eat it too??

trust me, I'm not mechanic and correct me if I'm wrong but isn't it true that within the last 30 years, Automotive Engineers have been able to figure out how to make big fast cars weigh less with different types of metal....??? perhaps??
They have, but they are cars like Corvettes and Porsches and Ferraris...The definition of the Camaro that has been touted is affordable performance, so you have to walk the line. Looks like it is similar to Dodge and Ford in that respect, you can do it lighter with other materials but both they and how they are processed costs a lot more...Did you ever see the special on Discovery about the Z06, the aluminum frame is built at a Dana factory in Ky and shipped to the plant for assembly, the technology for forming and welding is very different, and you are in a world of hurt if you mess up aluminum frame pieces, they cost a lot more to fix as well...It can be done, but at a cost....
jmliptak is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-21-2008, 06:41 PM   #77
boxmonkeyracing
juggernaut
 
boxmonkeyracing's Avatar
 
Drives: VRSCF, 2011 SS vert
Join Date: Aug 2006
Location: kenly, nc
Posts: 3,345
Send a message via AIM to boxmonkeyracing Send a message via Yahoo to boxmonkeyracing
well don't even give it a chance. . .9 posts wow. wonder if you were ever really going to give it a chance. my guess is no.
__________________
Quote:
Originally Posted by fbodfather View Post
We do not want to use the Z28 moniker on a car that does not deserve this hallowed name.
boxmonkeyracing is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-21-2008, 06:41 PM   #78
kevin2323


 
Drives: challenger
Join Date: Jul 2008
Location: miami
Posts: 2,339
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dragoneye View Post
Then maybe the mocking should stop...ever care to wonder why weight is so "out of hand"? Is it because engineers across the board got lazy? Is it because everyone is content to build heavy cars?

Maybe there's something more...something like saftey standards that, imo, are out of hand. Maybe there's millions of people who judge a car by its gadgetry, and yet further...maybe it's the wild quest for horsepower that is driving up the power-handling requirements! What would most of you here say to a 3500lb, V6-ONLY Camaro that performed just as well as this one will? Heresy? Blasphemous? "Not a Camaro"?

hmmm...Challenger, GT500(and no doubt soon the rest of the 'stangs), Camaro, GTR (yes, GTR)....something is telling me very loudly that weight is going up across the board...and not just Camaro.
Thank you I have been defending most new muscle cars curb weight because of safety standards getting worst every year. About time somebody stopped calling them pigs and used their brain. I predicted the camaros weight to be 3800 -3900 ish and I was right. I can't wait for it to hit the road!
kevin2323 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-21-2008, 06:45 PM   #79
jmliptak
 
Drives: D
Join Date: May 2008
Location: D
Posts: 373
There are lighter cars, but they cost tens of thousands or in some cases hundreds of thousand more. Tag has a point, you want a HUD and halos and a sunroof and dual exhausts, etc, etc, etc. Tradeoffs abound, the real question is which problem you choose to live with. An affordable Camaro or Mustang or Challenger or a really cool one one made of unobtanium that starts at $40K? THAT is the choice...

BTW, the Bugatti Veyron by this definition would be a pig too, but it goes 240 or 250. Course it had a w-16 putting out about 1,000 hp and costs $1.2 million AND has a nine month waiting list...
jmliptak is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-21-2008, 07:00 PM   #80
4thGen
 
Drives: 2005 Chevrolet Cobalt LS
Join Date: Jan 2008
Location: Indiana
Posts: 140
Quote:
Originally Posted by 1fastbusa View Post
The car looks wonderfull. I dont beleive i have seen pics of the ss with the 20inch wheels which would make it even better. But 3860 pounds for the 6 speed ss are you joking? And i know it was going to come with a independant rear but i was wishing for a solid rear. If the weight would have come in at 3500 at had a solid rear i would have sold my cobra and bought 2. Now ill just keep my cobra and buy a 09 c6 maybe a used z06 if i can find a decent used one
You do realize it has been part of the plan that this car get IRS for the past 3 years right? Personally, I didn't expect anything less than 3650, and that was for the V6. This car wasn't made to be super light, and it shouldn't have been expected to be either. I bet it handles awesome though.
4thGen is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-21-2008, 07:12 PM   #81
Mr. Wyndham
I used to be Dragoneye...
 
Mr. Wyndham's Avatar
 
Drives: 2014 Camaro 1LE
Join Date: Jan 2007
Location: Buffalo, NY
Posts: 25,787
Send a message via AIM to Mr. Wyndham
Quote:
Originally Posted by jmliptak View Post
There are lighter cars, but they cost tens of thousands or in some cases hundreds of thousand more.
Quote:
Originally Posted by 4thGen View Post
This car wasn't made to be super light, and it shouldn't have been expected to be either. I bet it handles awesome though.
__________________
"Keep the faith." - - Read Before You Post.
SIGN UP for 2014 Camaro5 HPDE @ Gingerman Raceway!
Mr. Wyndham is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-22-2008, 10:07 AM   #82
theholycow


 
theholycow's Avatar
 
Drives: '02 GMC Sierra, '80 Lesabre
Join Date: Mar 2008
Location: RI
Posts: 2,699
Quote:
Originally Posted by azfan View Post
I must say i am severely disappointed in the cars weight. gas is $4 a gallon. if the V8 gets 15/23 mpg, remember that is even with cylinder deactivation. and that 23 is if you hold steady at 55 mph. what about 65-70? 20 mpg?
i remember when the mustang gt 500 came out at 13 pounds shy of 4,000 i mocked it.
I've been studying this for a while, looking at theory and real world results when people add or remove weight. A few hundred pounds on a nearly two ton car makes ZERO difference in fuel economy. In fact, if you drive reasonably, even larger percentages of weight make zero difference. The main reason that lighter cars get better fuel economy is that they can have smaller, more efficient engines and/or taller gears.

If you accelerate hard all the time and never take your foot off the gas until it's time to shove the brake pedal into the floor, and do a lot of city driving, then a 20% weight difference could give you a measurable fuel economy difference.

As for highway mileage, which seems to be your concern above, weight has almost no bearing on it. Highway mileage is almost 100% about aerodynamic, tire, and drivetrain drag. Even engine size doesn't matter much (with good gears) because large-displacement engines can make the same power at lower RPM, and engine drag goes up exponentially compared to RPM. Blame the aggressive look and the huge ballsy grille of the Camaro for its highway mileage. If it looked like this and was properly geared it would get over 50mpg for sure:


Edit (2008-10-23): Further study has revealed that weight loss can help fuel economy in one situation: A very lightweight car that is severely underpowered. In such a case, it seems that for every 1% weight change, you could see up to or slightly more than 1% fuel economy change.
__________________
Removing weight has surprisingly little effect on fuel economy
Engine break-in procedure | Gear ratios
2002 GMC Sierra 4x4 5.3 (190,000 miles and going strong)
1980 Buick Lesabre family heirloom with 36,000 miles
2008 Volkswagen Rabbit 2 door I5-2.5 5spd DD lease
Quote:
Originally Posted by CamaroSpike23 View Post
she really underestimates the damage i would do to her reproductive organs
http://allOffTopic.com is the place for all the naughty stuff you can't get away with on this forum...

Last edited by theholycow; 10-23-2008 at 12:27 PM.
theholycow is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-22-2008, 10:14 AM   #83
Mr Twisty


 
Mr Twisty's Avatar
 
Drives: the 2nd amendment home
Join Date: May 2008
Location: OK
Posts: 14,321
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dragoneye View Post
Having sat and thought about this for a while, I retract ALL my comments made about the Challenger being a 'Pig'. It's vuloptuous.
Nice headllights baby
__________________
"They that can give up essential liberty to obtain a little temporary safety deserve neither liberty nor safety."
-- Benjamin Franklin
Great Racing Quotes

"Never run out of real estate, traction and ideas at the same time."
"I was doing fine until about mid-corner when I ran out of talent."
"Don't brake until you see God, just don't meet him"
Mr Twisty is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-22-2008, 12:33 PM   #84
mxkx250
 
mxkx250's Avatar
 
Drives: 12 ZL1, 98 Camaro SS, 67 RS/SS
Join Date: Mar 2008
Location: Morgantown, WV
Posts: 344
Send a message via Yahoo to mxkx250
Quote:
I must say i am severely disappointed in the cars weight. gas is $4 a gallon. if the V8 gets 15/23 mpg, remember that is even with cylinder deactivation. and that 23 is if you hold steady at 55 mph. what about 65-70? 20 mpg?
i remember when the mustang gt 500 came out at 13 pounds shy of 4,000 i mocked it.
I am under the understanding that this is how the old epa mileage was applied. The new ones from this year on will be a more real world representation. Testing at actual speed limits. A lot of people complained that they couldn't get the mileage on the sticker. The Government requires a more "real world" representation now.
I have heard that new mileage figures could compare around 3 mpg less than last years figures for the same car.
mxkx250 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-22-2008, 01:16 PM   #85
theholycow


 
theholycow's Avatar
 
Drives: '02 GMC Sierra, '80 Lesabre
Join Date: Mar 2008
Location: RI
Posts: 2,699
Quote:
Originally Posted by mxkx250 View Post
I am under the understanding that this is how the old epa mileage was applied. The new ones from this year on will be a more real world representation. Testing at actual speed limits. A lot of people complained that they couldn't get the mileage on the sticker. The Government requires a more "real world" representation now.
I have heard that new mileage figures could compare around 3 mpg less than last years figures for the same car.
Starting for model year 2008 the EPA changed their test procedure as you describe above. They also went back and adjusted old ratings to compare properly with the new ratings, so when you check http://www.fueleconomy.gov you get useful numbers to compare old cars to new ones.
__________________
Removing weight has surprisingly little effect on fuel economy
Engine break-in procedure | Gear ratios
2002 GMC Sierra 4x4 5.3 (190,000 miles and going strong)
1980 Buick Lesabre family heirloom with 36,000 miles
2008 Volkswagen Rabbit 2 door I5-2.5 5spd DD lease
Quote:
Originally Posted by CamaroSpike23 View Post
she really underestimates the damage i would do to her reproductive organs
http://allOffTopic.com is the place for all the naughty stuff you can't get away with on this forum...
theholycow is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-22-2008, 01:24 PM   #86
Camaro Man
Senior Member
 
Camaro Man's Avatar
 
Drives: 2010 Camaro
Join Date: Jul 2008
Location: California
Posts: 43
It really doesnt matter as long as its lighter than the challenger.
Camaro Man is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-22-2008, 02:18 PM   #87
Design1stCode2nd
 
Drives: four wheels
Join Date: Oct 2007
Location: usa
Posts: 545
We could have had a lighter car but it would cost a lot more. I'd take the extra 200lbs and $5k less on the sticker. It's still 250lbs less than the challenger although that can seat 5 and I bet its a tad cheaper than the RT.
Design1stCode2nd is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-22-2008, 05:44 PM   #88
AZCamaroFan
Coming Soon
 
AZCamaroFan's Avatar
 
Drives: Camaros
Join Date: Mar 2008
Location: Phoenix
Posts: 17,737
I can't buy the notion that fuel economy isn't impacted by weight. Look at the difference between the Corvette and G8 in city driving. About 5 miles per gallon.
AZCamaroFan is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-22-2008, 05:54 PM   #89
theholycow


 
theholycow's Avatar
 
Drives: '02 GMC Sierra, '80 Lesabre
Join Date: Mar 2008
Location: RI
Posts: 2,699
Those are different cars, with different engines and different transmissions. When you simply consider changing the weight of an existing car, it just doesn't have that much effect on fuel economy (again, assuming reasonable driving that doesn't multiply the effect). A few hundred pounds added to or removed from a 4000 pound car will simply not provide a measurable difference in fuel economy, though it will change performance in a measurable way. I didn't used to think that's the way it is, but repeated observations changed my mind.
__________________
Removing weight has surprisingly little effect on fuel economy
Engine break-in procedure | Gear ratios
2002 GMC Sierra 4x4 5.3 (190,000 miles and going strong)
1980 Buick Lesabre family heirloom with 36,000 miles
2008 Volkswagen Rabbit 2 door I5-2.5 5spd DD lease
Quote:
Originally Posted by CamaroSpike23 View Post
she really underestimates the damage i would do to her reproductive organs
http://allOffTopic.com is the place for all the naughty stuff you can't get away with on this forum...
theholycow is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-22-2008, 11:39 PM   #90
AZCamaroFan
Coming Soon
 
AZCamaroFan's Avatar
 
Drives: Camaros
Join Date: Mar 2008
Location: Phoenix
Posts: 17,737
Different cars, with different engines? Well i'm talking about the 400hp version of the G8. That's pretty much what's in the Vette. 5 miles per gallon difference in city driving is a large difference.
AZCamaroFan is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-23-2008, 07:19 AM   #91
CaptianSam
Car Garage
 
CaptianSam's Avatar
 
Drives: 350z,A4,SRT8...see sig
Join Date: Feb 2008
Location: north west
Posts: 832
what do you think about this

rs/ss v8 ...4000 lbs with driver..... 4000 lbs.... 4000lbs.... heavyweight...
__________________
2012 2SS RS Ordered
Black on Black 6 speed Coupe Artic Lid Stripes
Yes I Supercharge Everything

On My Ipad
Xbox McLovin1515
Ps3 McLovin1555
Current Autos:68z28,03viperSRT10,04escalade,05RangeRoverSport SC
Project Autos:80corvette350-500hp 6speed,06charger S'C 6-speed posi,74Firebird400blue,69chevelle572 707
New Autos:2012CamaroSSRS,09ChallengerSRT8
Past Autos:....too many to list

"i told you it was gettin' an LS3"
Go down deep enough into anything and you will find mathematics. Dean Schlicter
B.Sc. Hons. Mathematics
CaptianSam is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-23-2008, 09:50 AM   #92
theholycow


 
theholycow's Avatar
 
Drives: '02 GMC Sierra, '80 Lesabre
Join Date: Mar 2008
Location: RI
Posts: 2,699
Well, are the gear ratios and final drive ratio the same? That still leaves a whole different car, and the weight difference is far more than the few hundred pounds we're discussing here. I just can't argue with observations where people have added or removed weight with an otherwise unchanged car.
__________________
Removing weight has surprisingly little effect on fuel economy
Engine break-in procedure | Gear ratios
2002 GMC Sierra 4x4 5.3 (190,000 miles and going strong)
1980 Buick Lesabre family heirloom with 36,000 miles
2008 Volkswagen Rabbit 2 door I5-2.5 5spd DD lease
Quote:
Originally Posted by CamaroSpike23 View Post
she really underestimates the damage i would do to her reproductive organs
http://allOffTopic.com is the place for all the naughty stuff you can't get away with on this forum...
theholycow is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-23-2008, 10:53 AM   #93
EllwynX


 
EllwynX's Avatar
 
Drives: 2010 Camaro SS
Join Date: May 2006
Location: Southern NJ
Posts: 2,260
With me in the car it will definitely be over 4000lbs... I'm not a small guy. Probably more like 4200 or something. haha Add in a friend and it'll be more like 4450-4500.

Me- 6' 270#
Friend- 5'10" 245# I think...
EllwynX is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-23-2008, 10:54 AM   #94
pinkcamaro10
2G1FC1EV1A9110079
 
pinkcamaro10's Avatar
 
Drives: 2010 2LT/RS, 2013 2SS/RS 1LE
Join Date: Jun 2008
Location: Arizona
Posts: 4,815
Send a message via MSN to pinkcamaro10
Seriously, we need another thread about this?
__________________
pinkcamaro10 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-23-2008, 10:54 AM   #95
radz28
Petro-sexual
 
radz28's Avatar
 
Drives: Ultra-Grin
Join Date: Oct 2006
Location: Crapramento, Crapifornia
Posts: 13,040
Quote:
Originally Posted by EllwynX View Post
With me in the car it will definitely be over 4000lbs... I'm not a small guy. Probably more like 4200 or something. haha Add in a friend and it'll be more like 4450-4500.

Me- 6' 270#
Friend- 5'10" 245# I think...
That's right about where I'm at. It looks like I'm going to have to do the weightloss mod' myself, LOL!

However, I keep saying that I'd rather have a heavier car that feels more high qualilty than a light cheap-feeling car. You gotta' pay to play
__________________
"...What IS true: We anticipated that this would happen - we are never finished - and yes, Ford DOES deserve to win now and then. To think that GM can come out with a car to make ford throw in the towel is simply foolhardy..." - fbodfather
radz28 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-23-2008, 10:55 AM   #96
The_Blur
Jayhawk USN
 
The_Blur's Avatar
 
Drives: 6.2L of AWESOME! 2011 L99 2SS
Join Date: Nov 2007
Location: NAS Whiting Field
Posts: 14,221
Send a message via AIM to The_Blur
So we can call our Camaro the heavyweight champion of the track. It's still going to kick ass.
The_Blur is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-23-2008, 10:55 AM   #97
boxmonkeyracing
juggernaut
 
boxmonkeyracing's Avatar
 
Drives: VRSCF, 2011 SS vert
Join Date: Aug 2006
Location: kenly, nc
Posts: 3,345
Send a message via AIM to boxmonkeyracing Send a message via Yahoo to boxmonkeyracing
Quote:
Originally Posted by CaptianSam View Post
rs/ss v8 ...4000 lbs with driver..... 4000 lbs.... 4000lbs.... heavyweight...
so what you're saying is that it can punch through walls? I'm not getting the whole heavyweight bit. yea the car is over 4000lbs with driver, but if it's setup and got a great power to weight ratio who cares? I expected with a driver over 4000 lbs. was hoping not but expected it.
__________________
Quote:
Originally Posted by fbodfather View Post
We do not want to use the Z28 moniker on a car that does not deserve this hallowed name.
boxmonkeyracing is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-23-2008, 10:57 AM   #98
SilverTurtle
Reality Check Specialist
 
SilverTurtle's Avatar
 
Drives: '02 Z28, 2012 45th SS
Join Date: Jan 2007
Location: ATX
Posts: 1,723
Send a message via AIM to SilverTurtle Send a message via Yahoo to SilverTurtle
I think that these threads are a complete waste of bandwidth... but hey, its your voice, use it like you want to.

but I think you'd be better of complaining about it after you actually drive one... and maybe take it to a drag strip and weigh it.
__________________
got tequila?
SilverTurtle is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-23-2008, 10:59 AM   #99
Kyle2k
LVL 50 Troll Stomper
 
Kyle2k's Avatar
 
Drives: 2010 Camaro
Join Date: Feb 2008
Location: Grand Forks, ND
Posts: 3,250
Quote:
Originally Posted by SilverTurtle View Post
I think that these threads are a complete waste of bandwidth... but hey, its your voice, use it like you want to.

but I think you'd be better of complaining about it after you actually drive one... and maybe take it to a drag strip and weigh it.
Every time I see another post like this these two emotes will be my best friend -

__________________
Kyle2k is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-23-2008, 11:03 AM   #100
Mr. Wyndham
I used to be Dragoneye...
 
Mr. Wyndham's Avatar
 
Drives: 2014 Camaro 1LE
Join Date: Jan 2007
Location: Buffalo, NY
Posts: 25,787
Send a message via AIM to Mr. Wyndham
Merged...if it has to be talked about...do it in the same place.
__________________
"Keep the faith." - - Read Before You Post.
SIGN UP for 2014 Camaro5 HPDE @ Gingerman Raceway!
Mr. Wyndham is offline   Reply With Quote
 
Reply

Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump

Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Camaro Product Manager - interview Moose 5th Gen Camaro SS LS LT General Discussions 11 04-04-2012 06:10 PM
GM memo to dealers Moose 5th Gen Camaro SS LS LT General Discussions 41 02-04-2010 07:33 PM
Official Camaro Convertible CONCEPT Press Release Tran Camaro Convertible Forum 12 11-18-2009 07:05 PM
I'm not sure if I'll buy a 5th Gen. Camaro Moose 5th Gen Camaro SS LS LT General Discussions 68 06-13-2009 05:18 PM
5th Gen Camaro LS3 info from Chevy Hi-Po...READ TAG UR IT Camaro V8 LS3 / L99 Engine, Exhaust, and Bolt-Ons 295 03-07-2008 10:06 AM


All times are GMT -5. The time now is 09:04 AM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.7
Copyright ©2000 - 2014, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.