Horsepower Wars - ZL1 now in 3rd Place

[McRat]

Disclaimer -

The 350ci COPO is an iron block race engine with blower.
The 427 COPO is not really 435HP. More like 750HP as delivered.

[HDRDTD]

Originally Posted by McRat

The 2014 350ci COPO Camaro will rape it. Not gently either. Expect 1100 or more HP as delivered.

Even the 435HP Naturally Aspirated 427ci version punks it. Runs low 9's as delivered without changes. On the factory tires.

"No one has ever produced a muscle car with 700HP for street use."

The COPO is NOT a street car, it doesn't even have a VIN, and thus cannot legally be licensed for the street.

[McRat]

Originally Posted by HDRDTD

"No one has ever produced a muscle car with 700HP for street use."

The COPO is NOT a street car, it doesn't even have a VIN, and thus cannot legally be licensed for the street.

That's nice.

Ford never made a 850 HP Mustang.

Street or Strip.

Yes, I know the COPO is a part number. But at least it's a Chevrolet part number, not a tuner car.

[SteelCamaro]

Rumors swirling that the manual runs a 10.9, but they roasted the clutch after only four runs. The 8-speed auto will be quicker. Quarter mile wise, this thing is in GTR territory.

[v8]

Originally Posted by shaffe

But not street legal

Originally Posted by Sven59

Yes and the ZL1 a 14, only fair comparison same year stock.

Yes but we know the what the 15 ZL1 is, and thats pretty much the same as 14 with a few colour changes.

I love Chevy, but I have to applaud Dodge for this one. Its too bad GM has already stated the Camaro will not get that kind of power.

[EvilZL1]

GM can't answer back with the camaro. It more and likely has to be the ZR1 Vette


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[chevi286]

If the hellcat comes in at same msrp as the zl1 I'll be impressed, otherwise it's more HP at a higher price much like the gt500. We already know it won't handle like a zl1

[VJZL1]

Who cares what Dodge does it is totally irrelevant. The Gen 6 Camaro and all it's variations will be lighter and more powerful. If the New CTS-V is slated to get 650hp than you can expect 680hp or so out of the new ZL-1.

The thing here boys and girls is that the Gen 6 will be much lighter than our Gen 5. To boot it will be riding the new Alpha platform which debuted on the ATS sport sedan and in terms of driving dynamics the ATS beat the Gerrys (Germans) at their own game. Then we've seen the repeat performance from the CTS V Sport and what was the result every single one of the "vaunted" German sports sedans were made to look clumsy and dull by comparison.

Now imagine a chassis with that type of prowess massaged to the level of a dedicated sports car which the Camaro is and folks you have a winner. I dont care what Dodge does with an ancient W 210 E Class platform that is well past its prime, bolted to a car that has the aerodynamics of a Tub and the handling of a bag of potatoes.

To the HellCat I say here kitty, kitty, kitty....

[SteelCamaro]

Originally Posted by VJZL1

Who cares what Dodge does it is totally irrelevant...

The Hellcat is going to have more horsepower from the factory than a freaking Aventador, which costs $400k. I'd say that falls well in game-changer territory and is very relevant. I can't wait to see what's in store around the industry in the upcoming few years. It's an exciting time as ever for cars.

[Vroom]

Originally Posted by SteelCamaro

The Hellcat is going to have more horsepower from the factory than a freaking Aventador, which costs $400k. I'd say that falls well in game-changer territory and is very relevant. I can't wait to see what's in store around the industry in the upcoming few years. It's an exciting time as ever for cars.

Lol, Really? Are you thinking the hp is why the Aventador is 400k? Weighing 4300+ lbs. on 275 tires with a 57/43 weight ratio, the hellcat will be lucky to out handle a Toyota Prius. If its not understeering into a tree, it will be power sliding into one.

There is more to a car then bench numbers. Thought cars like the zl1 and z28 taught us that.

[VJZL1]

Originally Posted by Vroom

Lol, Really? Are you thinking the hp is why the Aventador is 400k? Weighing 4300+ lbs. on 275 tires with a 57/43 weight ratio, the hellcat will be lucky to out handle a Toyota Prius. If its not understeering into a tree, it will be power sliding into one.

There is more to a car then bench numbers. Thought cars like the zl1 and z28 taught us that.

Thank you sir. I find making people understand these facts at times to be a monumental task akin to kicking granite.

Horsepower means nothing. It is all about power to weight, suspension geometry, adept chassis and tactile steering feel. All of which Dodge Challengers fall flat on.

I am not going to waste my time addressing the Hellcat Aventador comment. To imagine someone even mentioning such heresy beleaguers my mind and shows a very sophomoric/elementary understanding of cars.

Can we please close this thread as it has gone forth into the realm of the absurd. There is no further point in discussing the Hell Kitty.

[Busabob]

I think the Hellcat looks awesome, and if it really has 707 at the crank it just raises the bar in that category for the segment. I will say I would be very leery about Dodge's quality and the ability to keep the Hellcat on the road reliably and reasonably.

I co-founded a general repair shop 13 years ago, 50,000 vehicles and $20M later I can tell you Dodge as a rule does not make anywhere near as good a product as GM. I read on Yahoo some guy said about the Hellcat (and I quote).....

"Good luck with that steaming pile, you better have a full time mechanic on duty"

Hope it's NOT true but Dodge has a really poor track record.

[hognutz]

people just need to wait for the numbers and quit declaring something good or bad before they even really are out.

the 2013/14 GT500 do fairly well and many people thought that they would be terible in the handling department (me included). they are good and fast. it is a car that is worth owning for sure.

as for qualtity I have owned chevy ford and dodge in the last decade. I found them all to be acceptable qualitly now a days. I have found people on the internet will tell you they are all terible and all great at the same time. being a shade tree mechanic though alows me to see if it is a real qualtiy issue and not just bad service.

the service you get now of days is horrible and I think that leads peopel to believe false quality.

I put 80k on a 2007 300c with the only issues being front brakes and one the roof modlings flew off ha ha.

my Zl1 had a cooler lind leak and rear facia fitment issue I fixed myself.

my last mustang has a stuck floating pin on a caliper and healiner started to fall down.

I have yet to own a perfect car but all were pretty good.

This car will make the challenger relevent in the market period though. 707HP can't be denied. this will be an 11 second car easy. it may be heavy, it could be expensive but it is goign to blow the doors off many cars in a drag race.

I think this car will soundly stomp a Zl1 in a stait line just like the GT500 does. I think it will strugle to drive as nice in all scenerio's but not everyone cares.

It will have a to shake the LX handling curse before I would buy one myself without coming into more money than I have now.


I think the problem with the internet is people still want to be fan boi's but yet the cars are all geting really good. getting hard for me to dislike them at all.

[SteelCamaro]

Lol, Really? Are you thinking the hp is why the Aventador is 400k? Weighing 4300+ lbs. on 275 tires with a 57/43 weight ratio, the hellcat will be lucky to out handle a Toyota Prius. If its not understeering into a tree, it will be power sliding into one.

There is more to a car then bench numbers. Thought cars like the zl1 and z28 taught us that.

10 seconds is 10 seconds, no matter the weight, tire size, ratio, etc.. I actually know a few people with Aventadors, one even with a LP720-4 50 Anniversario Roadster, and am very familiar with why they cost that much. Simply making a general statement, as that is an incredible feat.

Keep in mind that we're in good 'ol 'murica, where the appeal in cars to you and I is not the same to the general public. The GP doesn't care what "X" car ran on "Y" track they never heard of. Instead they care about horsepower and straight line speed. In which case, SRT are marketing geniuses.

Note: This is not MY mindset and what attracts ME to cars, hence why I own a Camaro and not a 392. That said, 707hp is 707hp and that's hard to ignore, no matter which way you want to slice it. Similar to acknowledging how much of a masterpiece the 8.4L V10 in the Viper is, though it will never be what a Corvette is. Just giving credit where credit is due, and trying NOT to act extremely close-minded and Chevy-centered (heaven forbid, I know).

Originally Posted by VJZL1

Thank you sir. I find making people understand these facts at times to be a monumental task akin to kicking granite.

Horsepower means nothing. It is all about power to weight, suspension geometry, adept chassis and tactile steering feel. All of which Dodge Challengers fall flat on.

I am not going to waste my time addressing the Hellcat Aventador comment. To imagine someone even mentioning such heresy beleaguers my mind and shows a very sophomoric/elementary understanding of cars.

Can we please close this thread as it has gone forth into the realm of the absurd. There is no further point in discussing the Hell Kitty.

Thanks for the lesson, I am well aware how car dynamics and power to weight work, hence why I can keep up with an SS in my sub-300hp WRX, but I appreciate the effort. Close-minded much? You sound like that guy with a Chevy tattoo and a "Fix Or Repair Daily" bumper sticker that never wants to hear anything about any other cars, and pouts when he does. All I read was, "Can we close this thread because people are talking about something I don't want to hear?" Really? Take off your Chevy fanboy hat and open your eyes a little. Why is it so blasphemous to have a different spectrum of cars? If there was one be all and end all design, and the big three all built identical cars with the same power to weight ratio, it would be incredibly boring.

Let me also ask you this, do you own a Ducati 1199? If not, you fail at your own "power to weight ratio" principles, sir. Have a good day.