[L78toLT1]

Originally Posted by UnknownJinX

That may be true, but I am just saying that the Charger/Challenger isn't as bad as you think. As others said, there is also the practicality advantage, especially with the Charger.

And as Farmer Fram kind of was trying to say, not everyone is a track hero. Even if the handling is bad, it's not like you will be pushing it on the street, and again, some buyers realize that and still like the car.

I for one am not at all baffled by the fact that Challenger is #1 in sales. Furthermore, I don’t believe that clever advertising or sketchy financing practices are solely responsible. The Challenger simply has far fewer compromises as a DD/family car vs the Mustang and especially vs the Camaro. The Challenger appeals to anyone who likes fast, comfortable, sporty looking cars. The Camaro appeals to enthusiasts. The former is a much larger group than the latter.
I’m an enthusiast, I participated in a dozen track days last year, my wife and I are empty nesters with three vehicles in the fleet in addition to the Camaro. When I was in the market for a fun car, given the way I intended to use the car, I did not even consider the Mustang or Challenger. There was a time in my life, however, when that calculus would have been skewed entirely in the opposite direction, in favor of the Mopar. When I had a young family and far less disposable income, the Challenger would have been much more appealing, the Charger even more so.
Even in our current stage of life, if we had to limit ourselves to one vehicle, and could choose only between the Camaro, Mustang, and Challenger, I would go Challenger in a minute. While I did a ton of track days and went on several spirited drives in the mountains last year, I also drove to work, to the store, on vacation, etc. every damn other day. For nearly all mundane driving chores, the Challenger just works better.

[FlukeSS]

Originally Posted by L78toLT1

I for one am not at all baffled by the fact that Challenger is #1 in sales. Furthermore, I don’t believe that clever advertising or sketchy financing practices are solely responsible. The Challenger simply has far fewer compromises as a DD/family car vs the Mustang and especially vs the Camaro. The Challenger appeals to anyone who likes fast, comfortable, sporty looking cars. The Camaro appeals to enthusiasts. The former is a much larger group than the latter.
I’m an enthusiast, I participated in a dozen track days last year, my wife and I are empty nesters with three vehicles in the fleet in addition to the Camaro. When I was in the market for a fun car, given the way I intended to use the car, I did not even consider the Mustang or Challenger. There was a time in my life, however, when that calculus would have been skewed entirely in the opposite direction, in favor of the Mopar. When I had a young family and far less disposable income, the Challenger would have been much more appealing, the Charger even more so.
Even in our current stage of life, if we had to limit ourselves to one vehicle, and could choose only between the Camaro, Mustang, and Challenger, I would go Challenger in a minute. While I did a ton of track days and went on several spirited drives in the mountains last year, I also drove to work, to the store, on vacation, etc. every damn other day. For nearly all mundane driving chores, the Challenger just works better.

I would have opt'd for the charger myself (Especially the SRT Hellcat) for the same reasons. 4 door and plenty of interior room.

That's one thing I hate most about my Camaro why they even bother putting in back seats still baffles me.

I drive with the seat tilt'd all the way back and the seat back about 75% so unless your kid's leg is 2" in diameter ain't no one sitting back there.

Which is why now I'm going to rip out the back seat reduce weight put in an o'shit bar and call it a day maybe spice up the back with LED lighting FX and/or a custom built box for a 12" sub just because I can not because I need to or should.

[sactownbwoy]

Originally Posted by UnknownJinX

That may be true, but I am just saying that the Charger/Challenger isn't as bad as you think. As others said, there is also the practicality advantage, especially with the Charger.

And as Farmer Fram kind of was trying to say, not everyone is a track hero. Even if the handling is bad, it's not like you will be pushing it on the street, and again, some buyers realize that and still like the car.

I would have been in a Challenger Scat if there was a manual to be had around here when I was in the market last year. I have no emotion tied to Ford, GM or Dodge. I liked all 3 but the Challenger edged out the other two on styling. My requirement when I was shopping last year was manual and V8. Didn't really care about anything else. There just so happened to be a dealer with a Camaro LT1 M6 on the lot, 3 hours away so that's what I bought.

I planned on modding the car so the least amount of extra stuff that I didn't have to feel bad about taking out the better. LT1 is perfect for that.

I daily my Camaro, wife has a Telluride for the family trips, and I also have my HD Softail Slim for whatever. My plan is to own all 3 American V8s within about 5 years or so after I retire from the Corps in a couple years.

[90503]

Ever since the 5thGen refresh, with the exception of the Z/28, Chevy and Camaro kicked retro to the curb. They tried to be more sophisticated and appeal to European styling and tastes with the Camaro and evolved styling, but it didn't work.

The Challenger stayed retro and ultimately did better in sales. The Challenger, heavier, roomier, marginal handling....but with a Hemi. That is muscle-car and that is retro. Camaro might have built a better over-all car, but got away from what made them successful initially.

All too late to do anything about it now. Get 'em while you can. My $.02.

[zxspeedspec]

Originally Posted by L78toLT1

For nearly all mundane driving chores, the Challenger just works better.

If you're not pulling >1 lateral G on the drive to Costco, what are you even doing with your life?

[jamala00]

Originally Posted by FlukeSS

I would have opt'd for the charger myself (Especially the SRT Hellcat) for the same reasons. 4 door and plenty of interior room.

That's one thing I hate most about my Camaro why they even bother putting in back seats still baffles me.

I drive with the seat tilt'd all the way back and the seat back about 75% so unless your kid's leg is 2" in diameter ain't no one sitting back there.

Which is why now I'm going to rip out the back seat reduce weight put in an o'shit bar and call it a day maybe spice up the back with LED lighting FX and/or a custom built box for a 12" sub just because I can not because I need to or should.

My son's girlfriend has had her kids car seat in the back seat for 3 years now. I have taken nieces and nephews for rides and they sit in the back. I agree, for the most part, it's useless, but I have used mine and for small kids or car seats... it does work.

[FarmerFran]

I will say this, if you are pushing my Widebody to the limit on the street in the twisties you are going WAY too fast for public roads. While this car might not be breaking any land speed records on Willow or Laguna it is not that bad handling of a car.

[redcoats1976]

there are way too many drivers out there without enough judgement or talent to handle anything more powerful than an electric barbie toy car.thats why insurance is so expensive.im betting poor judgement has killed more people than covid in the last two years.

[95 imp]

Originally Posted by Number 3

Have to remind everyone that thinks Dodge is such a marketing juggernaut, Dodge sold 215,000 cars, SUVs and Minivans last year, down significantly from the year before.

That could be said about EVERY manufacturer.

Originally Posted by Number 3

Just because you like the "American Muscle" commercials from a foreign company for cars made in Canada, it isn't resulting in strong brand sales. (The same foreign company that slaps an American flag on the door of their new SUV and uses a commercial to tell us why. Maybe no one else cares) The only thing Dodge has is a short team sales leadership position in a dying segment of coupes/performance coupes.

It might be a foreign owned company, but they sure seem to understand red blooded Americans, or at least are smart enough to allow other Americans to run the company in order to give other Americans what they want.

Originally Posted by Number 3

Without a strong transition to EVs, Dodge (and Chrysler that sold 1/2 of Dodge last year with 2 products) as a brand is pretty much dead regardless of all that awesome advertising (which is only a portion of marketing) they do.

Seems they went from dead last to #1 in the segment though. And they did it on a 20 y.o. platform.....

Here's yet another reason why they are #1:

https://autos.yahoo.com/dodge-direct...161600474.html

[zxspeedspec]

Originally Posted by FarmerFran

I will say this, if you are pushing my Widebody to the limit on the street in the twisties you are going WAY too fast for public roads. While this car might not be breaking any land speed records on Willow or Laguna it is not that bad handling of a car.

Actually it's pretty garbage. I've driven several and what should be a controlled .7-ish G turn becomes a .95 G barely held butt clenching experience with almost no brake feedback so I have no idea how to modulate my trailbraking other than "inshallah".

[MightyBobo]

Originally Posted by zxspeedspec

"inshallah".

"Inshallah, I will make it through this corner alive..."

[Smokin19]

Originally Posted by FarmerFran

I will say this, if you are pushing my Widebody to the limit on the street in the twisties you are going WAY too fast for public roads. While this car might not be breaking any land speed records on Willow or Laguna it is not that bad handling of a car.

The problem with making bad decisions on purchases is, you have to keep lying to yourself you made the right decision.

[rocket403]

GM has proven that it takes more than a good platform to sell a car, Dodge has proven that the whole package sells.

[Number 3]

Originally Posted by 95 imp

That could be said about EVERY manufacturer.



It might be a foreign owned company, but they sure seem to understand red blooded Americans, or at least are smart enough to allow other Americans to run the company in order to give other Americans what they want.



Seems they went from dead last to #1 in the segment though. And they did it on a 20 y.o. platform.....

Here's yet another reason why they are #1:

https://autos.yahoo.com/dodge-direct...161600474.html

Look at the data, they became number one with 52,000 units in 2021 in the worst segment in the entire industry. I'm sure there are people at Stallantis playing up the "we're Number 1" to build morale with the employees, but this isn't anything to write home about.

You couldn't get a new Dodge Challenger program approved if your business plan was 52,000 units (helps that the Challenger is based on the higher volume Charger). But yeah, they were number 1.

And to your link, GM will gladly build you a COPO Camaro as well. So I don't see that as to why they are Number 1. Ford has a similar program I believe.

Even if a miracle happened and Camaro vaulted to Number 1 in this segment, at this point it would mean nothing from a business standpoint. Volumes are so low at this point, it just doesn't matter.