Viper the new track king?

[Stew]

Originally Posted by ShnOmac

Now that would have sucked for them.

I think once the production version is available those times will get even more distant. the production versions of the SRT and GTS were quicker than their preproduction counterpoints and according to allpar they are still working on a new brake system with Brembo to offer before it hits production.

[KKreme15]

Originally Posted by Stew

At that level any one upmanship is going to be small. if could use the same tires the ZR1 had then i can guarantee the spread would be even higher in favor of the Viper. the Corsas just aren't as good.

Then why don't they get better tires?
This argument is not valid. It's like saying, "well that's not fair the Viper gets an extra two cylinders." SRT chose the corsas. And the Corsa's aren't bad tires, heck, they are R compound tires!!!

[Stew]

Originally Posted by KKreme15

Then why don't they get better tires?
This argument is not valid. It's like saying, "well that's not fair the Viper gets an extra two cylinders." SRT chose the corsas. And the Corsa's aren't bad tires, heck, they are R compound tires!!!

They apparently tried to get the same tires for the Viper, but the manufacturer wouldn't bite. Rumor has it they are onto their manufacturer to create something better than the current corsas and more inline with the Vette's tires and no, you cannot say it is unfair that Viper gets 2 extra cylinders because the ZR1 has a freaking supercharger that more than makes up for the lack of 2 cylinders so that is in no way, shape, or form a valid argument. The ett's tires are FAR closer to true racing slicks than the Corsa's, just have a look at the tread pattern, or lack there of on the vette.

Check out this article:

http://www.motortrend.com/roadtests/...er_first_test/

The Corsas weren't that much better than the normal P Zeros, on the other hand Compare a ZR1 opreven a Z06 with the upgraded tires to ones without and the difference is pretty drastic, so, yes, the tires make all the difference in the world. that is not saying anything bad about the Vettes, but that is their major advantage.

[Number 3]

Isn't it also limited to 85 units total? That isn't even homologated.

[DGthe3]

Seeing as the C6 ended production a couple weeks ago, the Viper now wins by default.

Originally Posted by Mr. Wyndham

By 1/10 of a second???

Woah. Splitting hairs!...imagine if they put all that work in, and didn't beat the ZR1.

You mean like the 3 to 4 years of R&D they put into the Viper in the first place, that resulted in a car that 2 seconds slower than the end-of-its-life ZR1?

Originally Posted by Stew

They apparently tried to get the same tires for the Viper, but the manufacturer wouldn't bite. Rumor has it they are onto their manufacturer to create something better than the current corsas and more inline with the Vette's tires and no, you cannot say it is unfair that Viper gets 2 extra cylinders because the ZR1 has a freaking supercharger that more than makes up for the lack of 2 cylinders so that is in no way, shape, or form a valid argument. The ett's tires are FAR closer to true racing slicks than the Corsa's, just have a look at the tread pattern, or lack there of on the vette.

Check out this article:

http://www.motortrend.com/roadtests/...er_first_test/

The Corsas weren't that much better than the normal P Zeros, on the other hand Compare a ZR1 opreven a Z06 with the upgraded tires to ones without and the difference is pretty drastic, so, yes, the tires make all the difference in the world. that is not saying anything bad about the Vettes, but that is their major advantage.

I beleive the point was that all these things are design choices. Yes, GM picked a supercharged 8 instead of a NA 10. It was a choice. Just like GM chose a particular tire, and Chrysler chose another one. As it turns out, GM made a better choice in this one aspect of the car. But there are countless other things that contributed to the outcome. Brakes, suspension, power band, tire width, unsprung weight, chassis rigidity, polar moments, centre of gravity, weight distribution, steering feel/speed, aerodynamics, etc. If Chrysler decided to make those other things better, the tires on the Corvette wouldn't matter.

[KKreme15]

Originally Posted by DGthe3

Seeing as the C6 ended production a couple weeks ago, the Viper now wins by default.

You mean like the 3 to 4 years of R&D they put into the Viper in the first place, that resulted in a car that 2 seconds slower than the end-of-its-life ZR1?


I beleive the point was that all these things are design choices. Yes, GM picked a supercharged 8 instead of a NA 10. It was a choice. Just like GM chose a particular tire, and Chrysler chose another one. As it turns out, GM made a better choice in this one aspect of the car. But there are countless other things that contributed to the outcome. Brakes, suspension, power band, tire width, unsprung weight, chassis rigidity, polar moments, centre of gravity, weight distribution, steering feel/speed, aerodynamics, etc. If Chrysler decided to make those other things better, the tires on the Corvette wouldn't matter.

[Richy_Rich]

Looks good!

[spyder]

This one needs a hood.

[newmoon]

Two completely bad-assed cars

[The_Blur]

Originally Posted by DGthe3

Seeing as the C6 ended production a couple weeks ago, the Viper now wins by default.

You mean like the 3 to 4 years of R&D they put into the Viper in the first place, that resulted in a car that 2 seconds slower than the end-of-its-life ZR1?


I beleive the point was that all these things are design choices. Yes, GM picked a supercharged 8 instead of a NA 10. It was a choice. Just like GM chose a particular tire, and Chrysler chose another one. As it turns out, GM made a better choice in this one aspect of the car. But there are countless other things that contributed to the outcome. Brakes, suspension, power band, tire width, unsprung weight, chassis rigidity, polar moments, centre of gravity, weight distribution, steering feel/speed, aerodynamics, etc. If Chrysler decided to make those other things better, the tires on the Corvette wouldn't matter.

[Stew]

Originally Posted by DGthe3

Seeing as the C6 ended production a couple weeks ago, the Viper now wins by default.

You mean like the 3 to 4 years of R&D they put into the Viper in the first place, that resulted in a car that 2 seconds slower than the end-of-its-life ZR1?


I beleive the point was that all these things are design choices. Yes, GM picked a supercharged 8 instead of a NA 10. It was a choice. Just like GM chose a particular tire, and Chrysler chose another one. As it turns out, GM made a better choice in this one aspect of the car. But there are countless other things that contributed to the outcome. Brakes, suspension, power band, tire width, unsprung weight, chassis rigidity, polar moments, centre of gravity, weight distribution, steering feel/speed, aerodynamics, etc. If Chrysler decided to make those other things better, the tires on the Corvette wouldn't matter.

You might want to research the VIper, 50/50 weight distribution, lower center of gravity, the chasis is as stiff, if not stiffer than the Vettes, the actually conact patch is larger than the Vettes, they have most everything down, except tires piont blank, and brakes, which they are working with brembo on a new system for the TA, and working with Perelli on a better tire . look at it this way, it took GM what, 8 years of development on the C6 to get it there (12 if you count the 3-4 years developement time as someone pulled on the viper above before the C6 hit the market) (and it took those tires) and this is the Vipers first year on the market, I am sure there are much better things to come and much better track times to come.

Also you keep bringing up the 2 second difference, FYI that was the preproduction GTS, production GTS and SRT on the non racing racing P-Zeros put down better times. Lets put it this way:

ZR1 with the <ichelin pilot Sport cups: : 1:33.70
ZR1 without sport cups: 1:35.83
08 Viper ACR: 1:33.92 which brings me to this interesting quote from motor Trend in 09:

[quote]Still almost 2 seconds slower than the Viper ACR (1:33.9) set last week, but impressive time and sound nevertheless!/[quote]

So, just like the ZR1 at the end of it's life being quicker than the new viper at the beginning of it's, well, my how times change, but see stay the same, yet opposite, too.

Anyways, the 13 Viper:

preproduction GTS on Corsa pilots: 1:35.77
Production cars

GTS w/track package:
P Zeros: 1:35.37
Corsas: 1:34.63

SRT NO track package:
Pzeros: 1:35.78
Corsas: 1:34.23

Only .53 second difference between the ZR1 on the pilots and NON track pack equipped SRT on Corsas, I am sure if it the track [ackage with better brakes, etc, it would have been even closer.

And of course the Viper TA: 1:33.62

Honestly, I believe a base SRT with the track pack could give the ZR1 AND "PREPRODUCTION" TA a run for their money.

[MikeSVX]

Well, GM has already stated that the C7 is faster around the track then the C6 Grand Sport. I wouldn't be suprised if they follow up with a Z06 version that can hit the Viper numbers. Dodge will probubly follow with full track version that beats the Z06 and then Chevy can release a C7 ZR1 to beat that............

[Stew]

Originally Posted by MikeSVX

Well, GM has already stated that the C7 is faster around the track then the C6 Grand Sport. I wouldn't be suprised if they follow up with a Z06 version that can hit the Viper numbers. Dodge will probubly follow with full track version that beats the Z06 and then Chevy can release a C7 ZR1 to beat that............

then the Viper will come out with a faster one, than the Vette, then Ford, wait.............. Ford needs a GT successor VERY badly IMHO.

[trademaster]

Originally Posted by Stew

then the Viper will come out with a faster one, than the Vette, then Ford, wait.............. Ford needs a GT successor VERY badly IMHO.

A close friend of mine dropped some interesting hints on that topic to me a couple weeks ago at lunch. He is deep in the know at Ford and has been accurate in the past. He kind of danced around it because he is under contract, but he told me that the new Mustang platform will be shared with other Ford subsidiaries, which seemed pretty obvious. The interesting part was that he said the rumored, "road runner" engine (ecoboost v8) could end up on the mustang chassis in a model other than gt500. I poked around a little bit and he smiled when I said Lincoln. He won't confirm for me, but I feel pretty strongly that he was hinting at a Lincoln coupe with a twin-turbo v8 shared with gt500. That could be one awesome car if done right.