2017 Chevrolet Corvette Zora ZR1

[Denis]

Originally Posted by DGthe3

And what if its that very perception, that they're 'only' a luxury brand with a couple performance models tossed in, that they want to change?

touche

[Apex Motorsports]

Originally Posted by NASTY99Z28

Could they price it so close to the z06?

The Z06 starts at $79,000. I would think a mid engine Cadillac would start well over $100,000. Probably over $120,000.

[Firefighter]

So thinking out loud why is the current C7 ZO6 essentially a C7 version of the C6 ZR1? There has to be something ridiculous planned for a ZR1 if they make one...

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[DrkPhx]

^^^ 5.5L V8 TT well north of 700 hp is my guess for the next level Vette.. whatever they decide to call it.

[Firefighter]

Originally Posted by DrkPhx

^^^ 5.5L V8 TT well north of 700 hp is my guess for the next level Vette.. whatever they decide to call it.

Interesting, why 5.5L? Are you thinking a move to a higher revving OHC deal? Maybe big bore short stroke kind of like the old 302ci SBC in the old Z/28?

Curious how/why you conclude the small displacement.

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[Sir Nuke]

Originally Posted by Camaro_Corvette

For you guys that don't stalk corvette forums. Tadge is to Corvette like Settlemire is to Camaro.

http://www.topspeed.com/cars/car-new...8227.html#main

YEP, he is.....and he is on my Corvette Forum....and he stated on the forum THERE IS 0 CHANCE that the 2016, 2017, or any C7 Corvette being Mid-Engine.

[NASTY99Z28]

Originally Posted by Apex Motorsports

The Z06 starts at $79,000. I would think a mid engine Cadillac would start well over $100,000. Probably over $120,000.

Yes but most will argue a fully loaded z06 vs a base zr1 if it ever happened. See how quickly the gaps close.

Originally Posted by Firefighter

Interesting, why 5.5L? Are you thinking a move to a higher revving OHC deal? Maybe big bore short stroke kind of like the old 302ci SBC in the old Z/28?

Curious how/why you conclude the small displacement.

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I believe the larger bore engines are most harder to pass emissions with.

[CamaroSpike23]

Originally Posted by Denis

haha as much as I like them I just never understood them. I thought it was way overpriced for what you get, why not just buy a Vette?

Cadillac is luxury first with performance in the back seat
Corvette is performance first with luxury in the back seat

Originally Posted by Apex Motorsports

See, I think keeping the Corvette front/mid and introducing a rear/mid Cadillac halo car makes a lot more sense. You obviously don't get the benefits of sharing development costs but the Corvette program is doing just fine without any help. A world class mid engine super car from Cadillac would be great for the Cadillac brand and GM.

Some of the development costs could be shared. Think of it this way, mid engined car with much tighter spacing in the engine bay can drive creation of smaller/more powerful components and overall engines.

Originally Posted by Denis

I don't think Cadillac NEEDS a exotic mid engine super car. its a luxury car brand that also makes a few hi-po offshoots of their cars. much like an AMG or M.

depends on the definition of exotic.

Cadillac is already competing with the likes of Porsche and Audi which already have mid and rear engine offerings.
the "standard" Porsche and Audi's aren't full exotics IMHO, but both companies do offer some hi-po, near exotic vehicles or variants of their 'lower tier' cars.

Originally Posted by Firefighter

My question with a Caddy only car is how on earth do they recover the development cost?

It would run anywhere from $500M to $1B. I mean a decade ago didn't it run a Billion to develop the Fifth Gen Camaro?

I read an article in the Feb '15 R&T with Bob Lutz saying that the C7 was intended to be a Mid Engine going as far back as 2003. There were mock ups of a Corvette and an XLR. Then the money troubles of 2005 hit. We've also recently seen the cobbled together from Holden parts Test Mule. I think (I want to believe) there is something being planned.

Also that new Ford GT has got to have Tadge and alot of GM executives pissed.

Like any good Firefighter if I see smoke I believe there is fire somewhere causing it.

No matter I wouldn't be in the market for the top end TT V8 bad ass but the Grand Sport equivalent yeah, that I'll be able to swing.

Here's to hoping...

The Ford GT is mainly a marketing gimmick. Yes, they will sell probably every one they build, but they won't recoup hardly any of the money directly from sales of it.
the money will be recouped by using the engineering and design technology on other vehicles in their lineup same as would happen with a mid engine vette or caddy.


Same way GM engine architecture took a lot of improvements from this:



http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cadillac_Sixteen

Originally Posted by BMR Sales

GM/Corvette have been down this road at least 3 Times

1964


Even Chrysler had a Cool Mid-Engine Car

ya know... if it didn't have that chrysler badge on it, it wouldn't look half bad.. lol

Originally Posted by DGthe3

And what if its that very perception, that they're 'only' a luxury brand with a couple performance models tossed in, that they want to change?

This.

Originally Posted by DGthe3

A billion is more or less the standard cost for developing a new car these days. Even more if it requires some radical technical innovation or techniques that the company is unfamiliar with (the Volt with its hybrid powertrain supposedly cost a billion and a half, and was based off of the Cruze's platform)

Anyway, the chances of a mid-engined Cadillac to pay back its R&D budget through sales are about the same as the chances for a mid-engined Corvette to pay back its R&D budget: approximately 0. Same goes for the Ford GT, the Lexus LFA, and the Acura NSX.


With special performance halo cars like these, there is usually no expectation that the OEM will make the money back selling the car. Its a marketing exercise, "hey, lookee what we can do!". That gets people talking about the brand, and ultimately brings more people into the showroom -many of whom wouldn't have considered the brand before. That is how they get greenlit. And when automakers routinely spend a couple billion on advertising each year, they can skim a bit from a brands ad budget to pay for halo-car losses.


GM hasn't really cared about the GT40/GT in the past. Why would they now?

The chances of them to pay back directly via sales is 0. but taking components from an over the top car packed full with all sorts of new technology and incorporating them into the other cars in the lineup will pay dividends.

Originally Posted by Firefighter

So thinking out loud why is the current C7 ZO6 essentially a C7 version of the C6 ZR1? There has to be something ridiculous planned for a ZR1 if they make one...

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Base C7 - LT1
C7 ZO6 - LT4
C7 ZR1 - LT5????

Originally Posted by Firefighter

Interesting, why 5.5L? Are you thinking a move to a higher revving OHC deal? Maybe big bore short stroke kind of like the old 302ci SBC in the old Z/28?

Curious how/why you conclude the small displacement.

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maybe because the corvette racing team uses the 5.5L engine. and before the LT1 was introduced, there was much speculation that the C7 (and the new Gen 5 SBC in general) would be based strongly off the 5.5L from the vette race program.
however, the 5.5L was done more for class rules than anything

Originally Posted by NASTY99Z28

Yes but most will argue a fully loaded z06 vs a base zr1 if it ever happened. See how quickly the gaps close.

The ZO6 and ZR1 are like the Z28 and ZL1 respectively

one is a track whore, the other is a powerhouse brute

Both are fantastic and both have their fine points.

Originally Posted by NASTY99Z28

I believe the larger bore engines are most harder to pass emissions with.

Why do you believe that? because "everyone" is going to smaller engines with turbos? lol
(I'm not saying you are wrong, just making light of the "small, turbo engine" bandwagon)


The standard pushrod v8 has been called archaic and GM has been accused of "not moving forward with the times". But time and time again, they have proven that you dont need small displacement, dual overhead cams (or OH cams period), turbos, etc to pass emissions standards. And we get the benefit of 450+hp straight from the factory

[NASTY99Z28]

Didn't gm say the reason they had to drop the ls7 was because of emissions? Had to do with such large cubes iirc.

[CamaroSpike23]

Originally Posted by NASTY99Z28

Didn't gm say the reason they had to drop the ls7 was because of emissions? Had to do with such large cubes iirc.

emissions was one of the reasons. another is that its "old" compared to the Gen5 SBC and low volume with high cost.

[Firefighter]

I wonder if there is a possibility of an updated DI version of the LS7 I'd guess an LT7. Probably not though. That 7.0L/427c.i. is pure sex.

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[Apex Motorsports]

Originally Posted by NASTY99Z28

Didn't gm say the reason they had to drop the ls7 was because of emissions? Had to do with such large cubes iirc.

The LS7 is going away from production vehicles because it is a Gen 4 V8 and they have the new Gen 5 V8s now. You will still be able to get it in a crate though.

[CamaroSpike23]

Originally Posted by Firefighter

I wonder if there is a possibility of an updated DI version of the LS7 I'd guess an LT7. Probably not though. That 7.0L/427c.i. is pure sex.

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Theres always a possibility... lol


And to an extent... there's already a 427ci GenV SBC on the road right now...

enjoy...

[Stingray]

Revive from the grave... another render/prediction:


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2017 Mid-Engine Corvette: An All-American Super Coupe
Boldride - Jeff Perez: April 14, 2015

"Engine at the front, drive at the back. That’s been the staple of the Corvette since it was introduced in 1953. Alternatively, so has the idea of a mid-engined variant. Up until now, we haven’t seen said mid-engine Corvette reach the production line, but rumors have been swirling, and the idea is becoming more of a reality today than ever before.

There have been plenty of reports and even a few test mules spotted, but we won’t know whether a mid-engine Corvette is actually happening until we see one in the flesh. For now, we can only imagine. That’s where our ace rendering artist Hansen Art comes in.

The concept you see here is our interpretation of a possibly upcoming mid-engine Corvette. And it’s pretty radical, as it should be.



Design: From front to back, the new Corvette will get a massive makeover. Though, it won’t lose too many styling cues from the Stingray we know and love. The front end gets a huge boost in aerodynamics without that big engine in the way, and the grille will provide more downforce than the underlying Z06.

Engineers are also likely to also ditch many of the heavier fiberglass body panels in place of lighter, stiffer carbon fiber. Just like any good supercar.



Performance: Move the engine from the front to the back— sounds simple enough, right? While the idea may sound elementary, the engineering required in restructuring an entire vehicle could hypothetically take years. But thanks to a robotic frame fabrication tool GM cooked up for the C7 Corvette, stretching and shaping a new frame for the engine transfer won’t take rocket science. Just engineering science…and time.

With that reworked frame, Chevy will probably stick the same 6.2-liter V8 found in the current ‘Vette back there, albeit with a turbocharger or two. It’s relatively new, eeks out huge amounts of power when need be, and definitely worthy of powering a world-class Corvette hypercar. Expect somewhere north of 750 horsepower to be present.



The Final Product: When it’s all said and done, if Chevy does decide to move forward with the mid-engine Corvette project, it’s bound to be something special. A radical, American design paired with a powerful engine and a modern chassis should put cars like the Porsche 918 and McLaren P1 on notice.

After all, Americans can build world-class hypercars too."