Camaro Z/28 Nurburgring time = 7:37.47 !! [VIDEO]

[zr1chris]

One thing I think a lot of people in this thread forget to take into account is just how long this track is and how many turns it has. All of the times posted have to be put into its proper perspective. It's impossible to think that every time posted was a perfect lap or even that they were all equal in every way. Also 3-4 seconds is extremely close when you are talking about a 16 mile long track.

[Crushinator]

I was just analyzing the videos of the Z/28 and also the ZR1 driven my Jim Mero in 2008. I wish someone could/would make a video of those two runs side by side. The ZR1's time was a 7:26.4. So 11 seconds faster than the Z/28. But if you watch closely, at the point it starts raining on the Z/28 video, the time is roughly 6:10. At that exact spot on the track, the ZR1 is at 6:07. About 3 seconds faster. By the end of the long straight, under the bridge, the ZR1 is at 7:05 and the Z/28 is at 7:15.5. Granted, the ZR1 hit a higher top speed of 170 vs 157 for the Z/28. But it's pretty clear the Z/28 lost a good 6 or 7 seconds because of the rain.

Al Oppenheiser was quoted as saying "We’ve actually run Z/28 times that are significantly faster than the one we published in the video, but we respect the gentlemen’s agreement, and to protect our integrity, we don’t publish a time that we can’t verify with a video."

I think it's pretty clear the Z/28 is more than 4 seconds faster around the Nurburgring than the ZL1. And would certainly be in the low 7:30's if not high 7:20's.

[ZL1-V]

Originally Posted by zr1chris

One thing I think a lot of people in this thread forget to take into account is just how long this track is and how many turns it has. All of the times posted have to be put into its proper perspective. It's impossible to think that every time posted was a perfect lap or even that they were all equal in every way. Also 3-4 seconds is extremely close when you are talking about a 16 mile long track.

The Nurburgring is 12.9 miles for a lap.

[TrackClub]

Originally Posted by Crushinator

I was just analyzing the videos of the Z/28 and also the ZR1 driven my Jim Mero in 2008. I wish someone could/would make a video of those two runs side by side. The ZR1's time was a 7:26.4. So 11 seconds faster than the Z/28. But if you watch closely, at the point it starts raining on the Z/28 video, the time is roughly 6:10. At that exact spot on the track, the ZR1 is at 6:07. About 3 seconds faster. By the end of the long straight, under the bridge, the ZR1 is at 7:05 and the Z/28 is at 7:15.5. Granted, the ZR1 hit a higher top speed of 170 vs 157 for the Z/28. But it's pretty clear the Z/28 lost a good 6 or 7 seconds because of the rain.

Al Oppenheiser was quoted as saying "We’ve actually run Z/28 times that are significantly faster than the one we published in the video, but we respect the gentlemen’s agreement, and to protect our integrity, we don’t publish a time that we can’t verify with a video."

I think it's pretty clear the Z/28 is more than 4 seconds faster around the Nurburgring than the ZL1. And would certainly be in the low 7:30's if not high 7:20's.

this is a good testament of what difference good tires make. case in point: original ZR1's time of 7:26 vs a second run of 7:19 on the Cups. No doubt a dry run for a Z/28 would be faster, but I don't believe it would be of a 6-7 seconds margin, as the rain only affected 2-3 turns and I don't see the driver getting out of the throttle on the last straight. I wish GM published that second run, video or not. I don't think anyone would have an issue taking their word for it. As far as the ZL1 vs Z/28 at the Ring (or elsewhere), it is apples to oranges as both cars come with substantially different tires from a factory. Slap a set of Trofeo Rs on the ZL1 and the gap might disappear in a big hurry. At least it will be reduced vastly, that's for sure. In any case, both are superbly capable cars.

[Shark72]

Originally Posted by zr1chris

One thing I think a lot of people in this thread forget to take into account is just how long this track is and how many turns it has. All of the times posted have to be put into its proper perspective. It's impossible to think that every time posted was a perfect lap or even that they were all equal in every way. Also 3-4 seconds is extremely close when you are talking about a 16 mile long track.

Exactly!!!! So true when you account for the changing climatic conditions including the track surface and all the various vehicle systems operating temperatures!!

[TrackClub]

Originally Posted by Z28 HLR

It's splitting hairs, but it rained for 20% of the run and the driver was holding back, 157 is NOT top speed. The 6-7 seconds is realistic. Either way, it was damn fast and a great run!!

Agree: this is splitting hair. The car actually gets up to 161, which is about right given the Z06 gets up to 171 (albeit faster as it carries about 700lb less weight) and the ZR1 is just 10 or so beyond it.
Also, that straight is not exactly "straight" and either way is not long enough to attain top speed for any of these cars.
Bottom line, even with the official video time, it beats a lot of very fine cars such as the newest Cayman GT4 for example. Well, the ZL1 with STREET tires does that too Pretty amazing machines I would say

[Crushinator]

I realize the ZL1 guys have a really hard time justifying the Z/28 being that much quicker at any given track. But the fact is, it is. Take VIR for example. A 4.2 mile track where the Z/28 was almost 7 seconds faster. Times for each, 2:50.9 vs 2:57.5.

Again, on the Nurburgring, at 6 minutes the Z/28 is 10 seconds ahead of the ZL1 when the rain starts. Think about that, 10 seconds. So magically, the ZL1 gained 6 seconds over the last minute and 30 seconds? I don't think so. Had it not rained, the gap would've gotten longer and longer. I was being conservative when I said 6 or 7 seconds. I honestly think it would've been more.

And don't bring up the tires. This conversation is about what the cars can do from the factory...because we could always say, slap a blower on the Z/28 and the gap would be even higher.

[mlee]

Originally Posted by Crushinator

I realize the ZL1 guys have a really hard time justifying the Z/28 being that much quicker at any given track. But the fact is, it is. Take VIR for example. A 4.2 mile track where the Z/28 was almost 7 seconds faster. Times for each, 2:50.9 vs 2:57.5.

Really... There's nothing to justify... Two completely different Camaro models.

[JusticePete]

Originally Posted by zr1chris

One thing I think a lot of people in this thread forget to take into account is just how long this track is and how many turns it has. All of the times posted have to be put into its proper perspective. It's impossible to think that every time posted was a perfect lap or even that they were all equal in every way. Also 3-4 seconds is extremely close when you are talking about a 16 mile long track.

What is possible and what we know is that the manufactures post the best times they ran with video to verify the times. That makes them as close to perfect as you can get over a long course. 4 seconds faster raise the McLaren MP4-12C 10 positions on the list.

I am confident that the Z/28 is at least 6 or 7 seconds faster based on the conditions of the run. That and $2.50 will get you a Starbucks black coffee tomorrow morning.

[TrackClub]

Originally Posted by Crushinator

I realize the ZL1 guys have a really hard time justifying the Z/28 being that much quicker at any given track. But the fact is, it is. Take VIR for example. A 4.2 mile track where the Z/28 was almost 7 seconds faster. Times for each, 2:50.9 vs 2:57.5.

Again, on the Nurburgring, at 6 minutes the Z/28 is 10 seconds ahead of the ZL1 when the rain starts. Think about that, 10 seconds. So magically, the ZL1 gained 6 seconds over the last minute and 30 seconds? I don't think so. Had it not rained, the gap would've gotten longer and longer. I was being conservative when I said 6 or 7 seconds. I honestly think it would've been more.

And don't bring up the tires. This conversation is about what the cars can do from the factory...because we could always say, slap a blower on the Z/28 and the gap would be even higher.

Isn't it great to debate 2 great Chevys? But we could play armchair racers all day. Note the ZL1 would out accelerate Z/28 in that last Ring sector. As a matter of fact it reaches top speed higher than that of Z06! VIR times between those 2 cars are a bit of apples and oranges, as the track got upgraded when they tested the Z/28 there. It is faster now. On the other hand, the ZL1 did do a 2.52 at the OLD track...GM stated the cars were 2.7 seconds apart at Milford. There is no doubt the tires accounted for much of this gap.

And speaking of tires: unlike a blower, they are consumables. Guys that seriously track their cars go through multi sets per season. So, unlike a blower, they can choose whatever suites them best. The point is, that tires are THE biggest differentiator of TRACK performance (bar only the driver). and since these are TRACK comparisons...well...you see where I am going with it.

[Shark72]

Originally Posted by mlee

Really... There's nothing to justify... Two completely different Camaro models.

Exactly!!

[cvp33]

ZL1 vs Z28.........tires. Done.

[JusticePete]

Originally Posted by TrackClub

Isn't it great to debate 2 great Chevys? But we could play armchair racers all day. Note the ZL1 would out accelerate Z/28 in that last Ring sector. As a matter of fact it reaches top speed higher than that of Z06! VIR times between those 2 cars are a bit of apples and oranges, as the track got upgraded when they tested the Z/28 there. It is faster now. On the other hand, the ZL1 did do a 2.52 at the OLD track...GM stated the cars were 2.7 seconds apart at Milford. There is no doubt the tires accounted for much of this gap.

And speaking of tires: unlike a blower, they are consumables. Guys that seriously track their cars go through multi sets per season. So, unlike a blower, they can choose whatever suites them best. The point is, that tires are THE biggest differentiator of TRACK performance (bar only the driver). and since these are TRACK comparisons...well...you see where I am going with it.

The Z/28 damping rates and springs are matched to the Trofeo street legal slicks. The ZL1 is much softer, sprung and damped for the GY street tires that come as standard equipment. To take advantage of the extra grip in the Trofeo takes the stiffer suspension.

[Crushinator]

Originally Posted by cvp33

ZL1 vs Z28.........tires. Done.

Done? Yeah sure pal.