Pedders December Dollar Days for the 2010 Camaro and Brand X Vehicles

[JICPerformance]

Pete, you once told me in person at a Pedders day that the general public was not capable of understanding how to adjust their own suspension when it came to dampners. You went on to say that Pedders had completed extensive research and had made their non-adjustable units the absolute best possible dampening for any situation. You used this as a reason as to why Pedders was a superior product over the existing Koni units that I had installed on my vehicle.

Can you explain how these units are different than the adjustable Koni units and why the public would be able to understand the complexities of their suspension enough to properly adjust their own dampeners now that Pedders has released an adjustable unit?

[Info@PeddersUSA.com]

Originally Posted by JICPerformance

Pete, you once told me in person at a Pedders day that the general public was not capable of understanding how to adjust their own suspension when it came to dampners. You went on to say that Pedders had completed extensive research and had made their non-adjustable units the absolute best possible dampening for any situation. You used this as a reason as to why Pedders was a superior product over the existing Koni units that I had installed on my vehicle.

Can you explain how these units are different than the adjustable Koni units and why the public would be able to understand the complexities of their suspension enough to properly adjust their own dampeners now that Pedders has released an adjustable unit?

I can help on this one. Our Pedders Xas are Monotube design. So when you make an adjustment say to increase shock damping 10%, it increases not only jounce and rebound rates, but the variable displacement or progressive rates the 10%. Konis, for example, have a dial on them that is not detented. You just turn it to 2 or 3 oclock, etc. and when you make a change, and return it, you are just making a change to an approximate level. With our Xa's there are 30 distinct levels of adjustability, that is totally repeatable, as long as you can count.

Many shocks that are dual adjustable, can take a serious amount of work to get dialed in. To be honest, to do the job successfully, you need a shock dyno, and these are not readily available.

Now not having a detented adjustment is a big deal. Each one of our detents are only a couple of thousandths of a turn. With that said, when you are in the 12-15 clicks, you can feel the differences between each click. So if you have a koni with just a dial, do you think you can get it accurate within a few thousands side to side? I do not think I could.

Also, most adjustable coil overs or shocks are not monotubes, and the rates of changes, when adjusting, may not be consistant accross all the progressive ranges.

I was at Arrington Engines last year. Attached to their shop is a Nascar shop that services and builds Nascar rides. Arrington builds all the Nascar Motors for Chrysler and Toyota products. I observed the processes of setting up their shocks and testing. It is a serious project to do.

So as long as you can count, you will be able to have predicitablity with our Xa coil overs and when increasing the damping levels, it increases all damping ranges equally. This is why we went to a monotube design.

Now for some general adjustment info:
2-5 clicks from full soft equals OE damping levels
11 to 14 clicks will equal our GSR damping levels
12-25 clicks will equal full roadrace damping levels
30 click will pop you hemroids!

Hope this helps

mike
dms

[JICPerformance]

Originally Posted by dms

I can help on this one. Our Pedders Xas are Monotube design. So when you make an adjustment say to increase shock damping 10%, it increases not only jounce and rebound rates, but the variable displacement or progressive rates the 10%. Konis, for example, have a dial on them that is not detented. You just turn it to 2 or 3 oclock, etc. and when you make a change, and return it, you are just making a change to an approximate level. With our Xa's there are 30 distinct levels of adjustability, that is totally repeatable, as long as you can count.

Many shocks that are dual adjustable, can take a serious amount of work to get dialed in. To be honest, to do the job successfully, you need a shock dyno, and these are not readily available.

Now not having a detented adjustment is a big deal. Each one of our detents are only a couple of thousandths of a turn. With that said, when you are in the 12-15 clicks, you can feel the differences between each click. So if you have a koni with just a dial, do you think you can get it accurate within a few thousands side to side? I do not think I could.

Also, most adjustable coil overs or shocks are not monotubes, and the rates of changes, when adjusting, may not be consistant accross all the progressive ranges.

I was at Arrington Engines last year. Attached to their shop is a Nascar shop that services and builds Nascar rides. Arrington builds all the Nascar Motors for Chrysler and Toyota products. I observed the processes of setting up their shocks and testing. It is a serious project to do.

So as long as you can count, you will be able to have predicitablity with our Xa coil overs and when increasing the damping levels, it increases all damping ranges equally. This is why we went to a monotube design.

Now for some general adjustment info:
2-5 clicks from full soft equals OE damping levels
11 to 14 clicks will equal our GSR damping levels
12-25 clicks will equal full roadrace damping levels
30 click will pop you hemroids!

Hope this helps

mike
dms

Thanks for the response. That answered most of my concerns.

[JusticePete]

Due to the late release of the Camaro by GM Pedders is behind on our Xa Coilover production. We held up production of our Xa coilovers until we could get under a couple of production vehicles to confirm fitment. Our high profile installations with a couple of Dealers and GM at the Proving Grounds were great opportunities for this. The Xa coilovers fit perfectly, are produced and waiting for the boat to ship out.

Radius rod bushes are good to go.
Differential bushes are good to go.
Sway Bars are being revised for clearance.
Endlinks are good to go.
Sub-Frame Inserts are being revised
Trailing Arm Bushes are good to go.
Upper Control Arm Bushes are good to go.

We expect to have stock for all these bits when the first Pre-Order of Xa coilovers arrive in the USA is about five weeks. Now allow me to make the wait interminable.We have air freighted, at considerable expense, a handful of Xa coilovers for magazine cars with Nickey, Hennessy and Fesler Moss. With the Nickey car we did the fitment of the Xa coilovers, eXtreme Radius Rod Snubbers, eXtreme Rear Camber and Toe Adjusters and a Pedders alignment at the Autobahn Country Club in Joliet Illinois with TEAM Stradale. Our first test was to establish the base line performance with stock tires, wheels, suspension and alignment. The head of the Autobahn Track Driving School Francesco Abate was our designated driver. Typically he is driving track prepared BMWs and Ferrari's. Last Thursday it was a Camaro SS. his initial drive was solid, but a bit uncertain. There is substantial lean and roll and a significant amount of understeer resulting in solid lap times.

We brought the Camaro into the shop and installed the VERY first 2010 Camaro Radius Rod Snubbers originally developed for GM High Performance. Unfortunately that project was been dropped, but we still have the parts so the Nickey Camaro was a logical place to test them. They take up space and remove compliance making the radius rod bush eXtremely stable. This part is one of the very few bits Pedders makes that will be sold for Track Use Only.

Installing the Xa Coilovers alters the spring rates with 8Kg coils up front and 10Kg coils in the rear. Damping set to full soft starts where the OEM dampers end. We tested at 25 or 5 off full hard upfront and 15 or in the middle in the rear. This was done to minimise the push created by vehicle balance and a staggered set of OEM tires. The alignment is the same as the one we use on my four door Camaro / Pontiac G8.

Front
Camber -2.2
Castor -- it is fixed from the factory on the Camaro -- well at least until Pedders releases front Castor eXtreme Adjuster Bolts and Washers.
Toe -.25

Rear
Camber -1.1
Toe 0.02
Thrust Angle 0

We lowered the Camaro SS quite a bit. I am waiting on some data from Francesco, but from memory we dropped the front 30mm and the rear 40mm. The transformation on the vehicle was incredible. Our first lap, Francesco was uncomfortable. The car just didn't feel right. Then we noticed that the Traction Control had not been turned off. While still running at speed, I turned off the traction control. The car felt more than alright. It felt fast. It still had too much push which can be further reduced by lowering the rear. That was my fault. Being a Nickey car, it should look like Nickey Camaro with the traditional Muscle Car stance so I left it a bit too tall. We need to bring the rear of the vehicle down another 15mm. Moving to 10.x20 rims all around with something like 295/35/20/XL or 305/30/20/XL should balance out the car with more grip up front and be balanced front to rear, but I digress.

The Nickey Camaro with Pedders Radius Rob Snubbers, Xa coilovers and a Pedders Alignment was a blistering 2.41 seconds per lap faster on our worst Pedderised lap. We feel that with ONLY suspension upgrades to include sub-frame bush inserts, upper rear control arm bushes, trailing arm bushes, bars and endlinks we have another 1.5 seconds. That would mean you can take a Camaro SS and find 4 bullet proof reliable seconds with nothing more than a few suspension upgrades. There is no motor upgrade that could deliver this improvement, because we were at the limits of the OEM suspension with OEM RWHP. Adding HP would do nothing for lap times.

As for Francesco, he is now an American Muscle Car addict. As we continue to work with Nickey Chicago at the Autobahn with Francesco we will continue to update this thread. Our next session should take place in about a month when we finish the suspension with our revised bits. Following that, will be a matched set of tires and wheels. Following that will be more RWHP. As time allows, we will be working with Hennessy and Fesler Moss on similar projects that will all receive national media attention.

Orders and retail sales of our Xa coilovers have been staggering. I never expected to sell coilovers in this volume for the Camaro, GTO, G8 and other platforms. Volume is good. Because we are running production at this level we are LOWERING the retail price for our coilovers across the board. They will not be as low as the December Dollar Days, but they will be going down based on volume. I can't thank the online communities that are the driving force behind these orders enough. We haven't had delivery on the first pre-order and we have already sold out the second order and while neither the first of second orders have arrived in the USA, we are on our third order with a production schedule that is eXtremely different than it looked 60 days ago.

Aside from that, I don't have much new information to share with you. :joke:

What a great parking place. These are the rides that normally would be found in the Stradle Stable.



What happened to the Castor Adjustment slot on the Camaro ZETA II chassis?



The front Camaro Xa Coilover is hung,



We talked about the Camaro project so much that we were pressed for time to complete our work and get out on the track for session II. It was all hands on deck to get the job done.



The gold rear strut washer goes on top and the silver washer on the bottom.

[JusticePete]

The very first set of eXtreme Rear Camber and Toe Adjusters is installed on the Nickey Camaro. There are benefits to being close to Pedders Head Office.



TEAM Stradale has great facilities. Thier state-of-the-art drive on alignment rack made the Peddersised Camaro alignment a breeze. It must be something iabout Illinois becuase the first drive on alignment rack I used was at Waukegan Tire and they have four of them.



Pictured from Left to Right: Pete Basica Pedders USA, Stafano Bimbi Nickey Chicago and Francesco Abate TEAM Stradale. Yes, you have to love Italian food to hand with this crew.






This is a great shot of the OE suspension running at speed on the track.



These are on track with the Camaro Pedderised.

[2SSRS@Gen5diy]

How long now? 3 or 4 Weeks.

[Info@PeddersUSA.com]

Originally Posted by 2SSRS

How long now? 3 or 4 Weeks.

They are on the boat!!

mike
dms

[pharmd]

Any news on that article coming out regarding the coilovers...that dispells the Edmunds article on the Hennesy car?

[Mindz]

Camaro suspension for almost half off... I wish I had a camaro to put it on.

Any idea if convertibles are normally set up differently then hard tops suspension-wise?

[Info@PeddersUSA.com]

Originally Posted by Mindz

Camaro suspension for almost half off... I wish I had a camaro to put it on.

Any idea if convertibles are normally set up differently then hard tops suspension-wise?

Traditionally the suspension has remained the same with convertibles but added reinforcements at the sub frame areas and in the door jams traditionally occurs. We will have to evaluate the car when it comes out to see how rigid it is to determine how aggressive we can go with a sports suspension.

Article should be out in the next 4 weeks or so.

thanks
mike
dms

[2SSRS@Gen5diy]

So how is it that i got an e-mail back to day that said it is still 4-5 weeks out what did you do with the first order that was on the boat 06-09-2009 in your post #60 " per Pete " "We expect to have stock for all these bits when the first Pre-Order of Xa coilovers arrive in the USA is about five weeks." That is now So what is up a want my order or my $.

[JusticePete]

Originally Posted by pharmd

Any news on that article coming out regarding the coilovers...that dispells the Edmunds article on the Hennesy car?

The vehicle Edmund's tested was running 315/30s in the rear. It was intended to be a photo vehicle. Mike did the installation on the vehicle, set the ride heights and damping in a static situation. There was no setup time to adjust the damping for the 315/30s. It was just setup to look good. A 315/30 has a very short side wall that effectively raises the spring rate. With the damping set down to 8 or 10, the ride quality would be good. With the damping set over 20 the ride would be very very firm. It is a simple matter of tire size, tire pressure and damper settings. As you can see in this video (please ignore the wind noise and camera rattle against the grille) the handling of a Camaro with nothing more than Xa coilovers, radius rod bushes and a Pedders spec alignment handles rather well. The car is pulling more than 1G on the course.

[JusticePete]

Originally Posted by 2SSRS

So how is it that i got an e-mail back to day that said it is still 4-5 weeks out what did you do with the first order that was on the boat 06-09-2009 in your post #60 " per Pete " "We expect to have stock for all these bits when the first Pre-Order of Xa coilovers arrive in the USA is about five weeks." That is now So what is up a want my order or my $.

They are on a slow boat. There are two types of boats that leave AU. One makes no stops and come direct to the USA, the others make numerous stops in Asia unloading and loading before heading to the USA. Our boats that run direct to Houston are very efficient, but there are far less of them. The majority run through Long beach in California where turn-around for cargo is much longer. The Xas are on a slower boat.

We apologize for the delay and are willing to immediately refund anyone the deposit they have on Camaro Xa coilovers. Just email Deb at AR@PeddersUSA.com

[2SSRS@Gen5diy]

You are saying that the boat from AU is 12 week in transit i don't think so, We are in the 21 first century and this ship is Diesel, and not wind powered?.........
As for my SEMA plans I am doing some things that at this time can not let out of the bag.
But am working with precision engine parts and my friend, That is how i go to SEMA all the time.