IT LIVES! My Z/LE ZL1 + 1LE + 2SS = Z/LE ;o) LSA SC [COTW 2/09/15]

[hammdo]

Well, today I installed the 'second' Varimax pump in Series. I placed the second one just above the right splash shield and added the circuit with the Bosch p-n-p wire harness.

Nice location (there is a cavity just under the fuse box and it fits in there nicely. Held in there with the rubber/metal clamp and 2 super strong ti-wraps) , easy to update the hoses, and, purged air very fast:

Location of the pump with the Bosch upgrade p-n-p:





Hose routing (this shot was from the first 10amp fuse. I later moved it to the 'second' one -- you see it exposed) as it was an 'ignition' source):



Add-A-Circuit:



Here they are running:



Now, the results:

Recovery was SUPER FAST after doing a 10 second WOT -- very fast.

Temps however did not LOWER, they stayed steady (Max of 15 Degrees above ambient while cruising).

While idle @ stoplight, temps rose very slowly so that is a plus. Duals is a plus also.

As far as lower temps?

IAT temps are the key -- need to lower those. The intercooler brick is the other obstacle -- too small so that is the limiting factor.

This experiment was for a 'track' focus -- sure drag can use the chiller or an ice box, but not for tracking.

So, to make this effective, more capacity (e.g., more fluid) would probably slow the temp rise since there would be more coolant to flow, another series of HXs, but on the whole, this does control the rise and is very effective in recovering to a steady temp while moving.

So, there you have it, helps slow temp rise, speeds temp recovery.

As far as lowering temps, no real difference between the single and dual pumps -- just efficiency and recovery.

Pretty neat though -- backup works (I tried disconnecting each one at a time -- both did just fine!).

NOTE: recovery is also impacted by the bypass valve opening allowing cooler intake air so that helps a ton.

So I do have the original ZL1 HX, I wonder if dualing HX's will help....Hummmmmmmmmmm....

Thanks!

-Don

[hammdo]

So my next experiment is to test the 'efficiency' of the dual pumps -- basically, how well are they working within the intercooler/hx system removing the heat the boost is making (so the timing retard is delayed or avoided). The dual pumps in series increase the flow from about 19% to 25% above the single pump (4.8 GPM to 5.7GPM @ 19%, 6 GPM @ 25% increase).

I needed to do determine how much heat a pound of boost makes and then determine the total heat produced based on the roots style thermal efficiency.

So for every 1 PSI of boost, you average around a 10.42° increase in heat for a 100° day (there is a formula that gives you the 'absolute', but for this, you get an idea). So, now you need to take the 'Thermal Efficiency' of the blower and that will give you the 'expected' temp ° increase so:

Take the estimated temp (10.42°) per lb of boost and divide it by the 'thermal efficiency' (.55, .65, or .75) and you'll get the 'expected' temp increase.

So 100° day:

10.42 / .55 = 18.95° increase per 1 PSI of boost
10.42 / .65 = 16.03° increase per 1 PSI of boost
10.42 / .70 = 14.89° increase per 1 PSI of boost
10.42 / .75 = 13.89° increase per 1 PSI of boost

My car makes 6 PSI so that would be:

113.70° increase over ambient @ 55 % Thermal Efficiency
(100° + 113.70° = 213.70° after 6 PSI of boost)

96.18° increase over ambient @ 65 % Thermal Efficiency
(100° + 96.18° = 196.18° after 6 PSI of boost)

89.34° increase over ambient @ 70 % Thermal Efficiency
(100° + 89.34° = 189.34° after 6 PSI of boost)

83.34° increase over ambient @ 75 % Thermal Efficiency
(100° + 83.34° = 183.34° after 6 PSI of boost)

Now, that is what WOT air temp is 'estimated' (as its not a linear increase, I believe @ 15 PSI, the increase may be 2/3s of the 10.42 * 15) to be depending of how 'efficient' the roots blower is (I think the best its been is 75%, I believe the LSA ZL1 is 70%).

ALL of this is excluding the impact of the engine cooling/heat soaking -- which will impact the recovery and how cool 'out of boost' IAT2 temps can get -- just talking about the heat the 'boost' makes with the IAT1 incoming air.

So, to keep the ECM from pulling timing, we need to make sure the intercooler, pump(s) flow, HX/Reservoir, and intercooler brick have the capacity to cool down those temps.

Knowing the formula and expected results, I can then judge how well my 'intercooler/hx' setup is doing.

My assumption is this will really tell how well the intercooling system is working when I'm under boost -- not really 'after' or how 'fast' I recover since that is impacted by the boost valve opening and cool air from the CAI mixing in (unless you 'drag race', which is impacted by low flow of air from the CAI which is going to slow down the recovery -- I'm just focusing on 'track' here). The lower I can make the 'IAT2' temps after boost, the better I can expect the recovery to be (of course assuming we're still 'moving' and air is coming in the CAI from the 'clean' source).

I did a small test today (not quite a 100°) but the decrease is minimal (70° is 9.857° so, we're really on about .6° per lb of boost different).

I did 3, 5 second WOT runs. Starting IAT2 temps were 104° and at the end of the run they were 116°. So I only gained 12° AFTER the intercooler did its work (engine coolant was 183°, IAT was ambient, oil was 224°).

So, assuming the 70% Thermal Efficiency rate, the temps were 'cooled' by 73.34° with my current intercooler system. Granted this was a limited set of runs (like most straight aways on a track), but gives me and idea of where my setup is.

My timing begins to start pulling @ 122° so doing all I can to keep it under that (plus a multiplier is applied so its maybe 1.65° of timing pulled @ that temp).

So I think this makes more sense to know how well the intercooler system cools the boost charge -- in order to keep from pulling timing.

Anyway, I'll do what I can to 'test' this and see. It's been a while since I had to do this kind of 'math' ;o) and I believe I have it pretty close.

Thanks for reading 'math' talk ;o)

-Don

[hammdo]

So, wanted to get a bit 'closer' to the 'actual' temp rise

figured I give the formula

Atmospheric pressure is typically 14.7 PSI

My boost is 6 PSI

so, the formula is:

(14.7 + 6) / 14.7 = 20.7 / 14/7 = 1.408163265

Take that number and raise it to the power of 0.28 (part of the formula) then subtract 1:

0.1005831083

Take that number and then multiple it by the Absolute ° (460° + Ambient°) in this case 560° since its 100°

So, I'm looking @ 56.32654065° increase in temp for my boost level.

Now, we take that number and divide it by the Thermal Efficiency of the Supercharger (.70 or 70%)

You get 80.47° increase -- so about 9° cooler if you include 'all' the boost in the formula..

With that, my 116° IAT2 actual temp during boost were cooled 64.47° -- this is the efficiency of my intercooler/hx system for a 5 second WOT run. So the longer I'm in boost, the lower the efficiency will be -- the goal is to keep the efficiency as effective as long as possible...

-Don

[mlee]

Good Work...

[hammdo]

Originally Posted by mlee

Good Work...

Thanks! It's a head hurter, but I want to know what's going on. I have a temp sensor coming for the intercooler and aeroforce. I'll be able to see coolant Temps after the supercharger brick!

-Don

[hammdo]

Twin Varimax pumps still going great! I did have to move the Add-A-Circuit to a different spot as the place I had it, turned 'off' after driving it for a bit, so, this time made sure it stayed on!

The new Transmission cooler is fantastic, but, it pushes the heat it takes out to the rest of the coolers! STILL, temps are great -- 185° coolant, 158° transmission, 15° above ambient for the IAT2 temps (@ 90°+).

I have the intercooler coolant sender from Aeroforce (came in today) along with the 'T' for the coolant lines to support it. That, will be a weekend project for this weekend! I've already added 2 analog wires for the Gauge, so that will be easy to do now!

More to come...

-Don

[Mrbowtie26]

Originally Posted by hammdo

Twin Varimax pumps still going great! I did have to move the Add-A-Circuit to a different spot as the place I had it, turned 'off' after driving it for a bit, so, this time made sure it stayed on!

The new Transmission cooler is fantastic, but, it pushes the heat it takes out to the rest of the coolers! STILL, temps are great -- 185° coolant, 158° transmission, 15° above ambient for the IAT2 temps (@ 90°+).

I have the intercooler coolant sender from Aeroforce (came in today) along with the 'T' for the coolant lines to support it. That, will be a weekend project for this weekend! I've already added 2 analog wires for the Gauge, so that will be easy to do now!

More to come...

-Don

It's a neverending quest to mod our cars lol.

[hammdo]

Amen to that!

-Don

[hammdo]

Started on the intercooler coolant temp sensor tonight.

I purchased the 'Aeroforce' version (1/8 NPT) and added a 3 wire connector so I could remove if needed:



I ordered this from Summit racing so I could install the sensor inline right after the reservoir:



Link to the item just in case:

https://www.summitracing.com/parts/atm-2281


I'll install these and wire up the sensor tomorrow morning. This will give me an idea of how hot the coolant is right after the intercooler brick!

-Don

[hammdo]

Got the temp gauge installed! Nice setup, easy to do with the AeroForce (setup analog 1 as fluid temp).

Here is the brass inline housing (1/8 " NPT) fitting:



Sensor in place:



Added Thermal tape to avoid heat soak from the headers:



Custom wire harness I make to install sensor:



Gauge setup!:





Now I can see what the intercooler coolant temps (Fluid Temps) are!

I also noticed that I can turn my fans on low or high anytime I need to! Very cool feature (ZL1 options has intercooler pump AND fans!)

My dual pumps run with ignition, so its very effective to keep intercooler temps down...

Yeah!

-Don

[hammdo]

Someone asked me 'why' dual pumps or installing a greater flowing pump. For me, it was to have more coolant flow though the intercooler (not just the hx). Because we're limited to the size of the intercooler brick, we can 'trick' the system into thinking it has a larger intercooler by increasing the flow though the intercooler brick. This 'simulates' a larger brick by moving more coolant in the same amount of time -- as if there was a larger intercooler brick for the 'stock' flow. Since I added between 20% to 25% more flow, it aids in cooling the charged air

In order to cool the air 'longer', adding more capacity/hx would be needed as eventually, that flow would reach its 'apex' in cooling efficiency the longer I'm in boost.

So, I'll probably install the stock HX as an addition to give me 'both', just to see if the temps are tamed longer...

-Don

[hammdo]

Install a new CAI air filter since I had to leave the 'original' one dry for 24 hours -- so, will be cycling between the two.

LSA kit has been going fantastic! I've noticed now that the LSA is no longer being installed in factory cars, the prices are heading up! I was looking into a 'back-up' lid/manifold and it looks like the prices are going to double.

If you're on the fence, you may want to look into getting the LSA kit soon. I already notice the lid doubled in price since I purchased my kit, and the used manifolds are going for > $1k -- where you could have bought them last year for $500 to $700 used.

GM will I'm sure raise the prices as these are VERY popular for anyone doing an LS build -- just keep that in mind as you 'ponder' your choices...

-Don

[1KillerSS]

Originally Posted by hammdo

Install a new CAI air filter since I had to leave the 'original' one dry for 24 hours -- so, will be cycling between the two.

LSA kit has been going fantastic! I've noticed now that the LSA is no longer being installed in factory cars, the prices are heading up! I was looking into a 'back-up' lid/manifold and it looks like the prices are going to double.

If you're on the fence, you may want to look into getting the LSA kit soon. I already notice the lid doubled in price since I purchased my kit, and the used manifolds are going for > $1k -- where you could have bought them last year for $500 to $700 used.

GM will I'm sure raise the prices as these are VERY popular for anyone doing an LS build -- just keep that in mind as you 'ponder' your choices...

-Don

Good information to know, like the rest of your thread, its filed with great information. I would hate to have planned on this kit only to find out that it's going to be priced right out of my budget all of a sudden.


They could just do turbos!!! Pretty sure they will be priced around the same from today, to tomorrow.

[hammdo]

No kidding! GM, and I'm sure other Auto makers, play the market -- when something is hot, they'll want to get it while they can -- saw this happening over the last year. You can see it already coming, the lower manifolds are getting harder to find reasonable, and used I'm seeing them for near $1500. If the costs go up, folks will be kicking themselves. Right now, its still a bargain for a good boosted application. Rumor has it December or January, prices will go up as the new 17 models are in swing and the contracts for the 'older' version end...

I really thought about the turbos at one point, but, really like what I have. IF I did turbos, AGP -- all the way from what I've seen...

SO, WHEN are you going to get your's going ;o)...

(sorry, had to do that...)

-Don