[kttxz06]

Originally Posted by DevilsReject97

I disagree. Adding slightly better tires and fixing the rear brakes won't overcome the Camaro's other advantages in suspension. Not to mention, the Mustang already exceeds the Camaro in average cost as it currently sits.

Less weight means reducing the cabin size, which is how GM went with the Camaro. That's the one "big" bragging point for every person who seems to like Mustangs..... I CAN SEE!!!!!

I do agree that Ford could make tweaks to make the Mustang much better rather easily. The biggest issue is that they don't have to, because people will buy it.... Ford 150's have been the best selling trucks for 40 yrs roughly, but they aren't the best trucks....

I'll give you that, but I think you know where I was headed in general. Ford can do tweaks and it would just be a better car in general. Added Brembo's all the way around. Check. I still think it needs a wider and better tire. Every time I'm behind a GT I'm like, damn those tires look skinny. They need to jam a 305 back there. Weight, well, however they need to shave 200 lbs, do it. I still think if it did all that, It would put the Camaro in it's place. But, Camaro is coming out with a refresh. I'm sure they plan on shedding a few lbs, adding a hp bump. Therefore, putting it more ahead of the Mustang.

Ford failed even more with the GT350 as it got it's ass handed to it by the Zl1 and let's not even compare the 350R to the Zl1 1LE. Across the board, Ford is getting it's ass handed to it by Chevy.

[DevilsReject97]

Originally Posted by kttxz06

I'll give you that, but I think you know where I was headed in general. Ford can do tweaks and it would just be a better car in general. Added Brembo's all the way around. Check. I still think it needs a wider and better tire. Every time I'm behind a GT I'm like, damn those tires look skinny. They need to jam a 305 back there. Weight, well, however they need to shave 200 lbs, do it. I still think if it did all that, It would put the Camaro in it's place. But, Camaro is coming out with a refresh. I'm sure they plan on shedding a few lbs, adding a hp bump. Therefore, putting it more ahead of the Mustang.

Ford failed even more with the GT350 as it got it's ass handed to it by the Zl1 and let's not even compare the 350R to the Zl1 1LE. Across the board, Ford is getting it's ass handed to it by Chevy.

I do understand where you were going with it, and I do agree in principal there. Ford is leaving wayyyyy too many items as upgrades, instead of standard features.

Additionally, you bring in the GT350 and GT350R....but even those cars were hard pressed by the 1LE SS....so again, still really playing 2nd fiddle..

[BlaqWhole]

Originally Posted by FastCarFanBoy

no it should keep the single pistons and drop 200lbs

It can't drop that kind of weight without sacrificing some of the options it comes with. Or without significantly reducing the interior. But people want performance WITH options. And considering what the competition comes with, none of these manufacturers can afford to have less options. Keep the weight and add better brakes on all 4 corners. The SS did it. The Challenger did it. The Mustang needs to do it too.

Originally Posted by 13vertss/r's

There was only 118 lbs different between the two and the GT had better tires and wider in front where most brakeing happens. So weight and tires were not the issue. Only one thing left, better brakes in the back.

Agreed!

[Chadicus]

So Car and Driver confirmed what we all already knew: The SS is still faster, stops better and handles better. And with crappy run-flats compared to the Mustangs MPSS.. Lol

[Spartan268]

Originally Posted by BlaqWhole

I was just talking about this 12 hours ago. A few years ago I wanted to run a cheap boost setup on my 5th Gen SS. So I found a guy selling a TT setup. My buddy had a 370Z that he also wanted to throw a turbo on. So he sent his down to Fl and I bought mine from the guy. Well he was talking numbers in the 500s and he would be doing low 10s and I told him to expect more like high 300s to low 400s safely on low boost and a good low 12 to high 11 run...maybe even mid 11s. I told him his engine had way too much compression for the amount of boost it would need to do all that he wanted it to do. So the shop he went to hit him with a huge turbo pushing 9-11 psi and pushed his engine to high 400s/low 500s which I thought was way too much. He took it to the track and ran a mid 12 at like 130...couldn't get traction. a couple months later he blew his engine. When I saw that I boxed up the TT setup I had bought and sold it, lol!! The guy that bought it from me eventually installed it and his engine blew after some time. If you ask me, turbos are the most expensive most complicated most troublesome and most expensive of the power adders. They're cool to look at and awesome to hear. But on stock engines that are not forged you really have to keep the boost low (like 5-7 psi max) or skate with danger.

It's funny you had to mention the VQ37VHR in the 370Z. I was going to throw it in my post but I left it out. I'm in a local Nissan/Infiniti group around here since I use to have a G35 (brother has it now). And these guys all get HUGE hard ones the topic of boost. Almost every single person that has attempted this (Supercharger and twins) have had some kind of catastrophic failure.
G37 with supercharger medium boost; blown engine.
G37 with twins; in the shop 80% of the time.
370Z with twins; blew on the dyno.
G35 with spray; another roasted engine.

I love the guys to death but they're delusional for the most part on this topic.

IIRC the MY 18 mustang has been bumped to a compression ratio of 12 so this will be interesting on the boost camp. I'd imagine E85 will be the savior but that's depending on the reliability of the supply. But at the end of the day once you starts throwing in mods and F/I into this topic. It's a question of who has the bigger pockets, the engine itself barely matters after that.

Originally Posted by kttxz06

Smh.

Comments on the Car and Driver review.

This is how far whacked out Mustang fans are.........................................


When one considers what this car offers at this price range, the updated Mustang GT is nothing short of the best value-per-dollar-spent in the automotive universe. Period.
And, optioned with the all-new 10-speed automatic, the not-so-lowly Mustang will break the four-second naught to sixty barrier, leaving cars that cost more than twice as much in its rear view mirror (Porsche 911, I'm looking at you.)


Bwahahahahahahaha. WTF? The best value per dollar spent in the automotive universe? Hahahahahahahahaha. Wow. And now the Mustang crowd is saying the GT will slay a Porsche 911? ARE U FKN KIDDING ME? Wow.

Um, this car will barely eeeek out a victory over my old piece of shit Maserati GT.

Btw, saw a GTR on the way to take the kiddo for some dinner. Ugh. I want another GTR every time I see one.

Normally I don't bite but...
"Just know that if the argument spills into the streets, the Chevy is still quicker."

Nuff said

[Zeke.Malvo]

Originally Posted by FastCarFanBoy

no it should keep the single pistons and drop 200lbs

The new Mustang is such a porker (the camaro is no light weight either). I remember when the '03 Cobra came out and bugging out when I saw the coupes weighed 3660 lbs. I remember thinking "What's the point?". I had a convertible and remember the shame in telling people it weighed in at 3780!

Sent from my SM-G955U using Tapatalk

[FastCarFanBoy]

Originally Posted by kttxz06

Agreed, but that's what I don't get with Ford. They can't seem to just get it right. Imagine this GT as is. Do 3 things a tad better and it hands down drop kicks the Camaro. More tire. Better brakes. Less weight. And it doesn't even have to spend a ton more to accomplish that and they can keep the price point where it's at now. It would be game over and it would shut up the Camaro camp.

there isn't alot of weight to be shed in S550 without going to expensive materials.

Originally Posted by DevilsReject97

Why? The Camaro can have the better combo all around and still weighs less...

And the 12.6 @ 115 for the 6spd GT through C&D means that the 6spd for the SS will almost certainly still be faster....

And when you match up the autos, I think the SS will still get the nod, but it will be closer than we expect...

the M6 Camaro just went 12.6@113.7 a few days ago at Edmunds interestingly. C&D managed 118 from theirs? Musta been a ringer

Originally Posted by DevilsReject97

I disagree. Adding slightly better tires and fixing the rear brakes won't overcome the Camaro's other advantages in suspension. Not to mention, the Mustang already exceeds the Camaro in average cost as it currently sits.

Less weight means reducing the cabin size, which is how GM went with the Camaro. That's the one "big" bragging point for every person who seems to like Mustangs..... I CAN SEE!!!!!

I do agree that Ford could make tweaks to make the Mustang much better rather easily. The biggest issue is that they don't have to, because people will buy it.... Ford 150's have been the best selling trucks for 40 yrs roughly, but they aren't the best trucks....

you dont have to have gun slit windows in order to shrink cabin size, but I dont think smaller cabin is a route Ford wants to take.

[2011shelby]

Originally Posted by kttxz06

Btw, saw a GTR on the way to take the kiddo for some dinner. Ugh. I want another GTR every time I see one.

That will be my next car to add alongside my GT 500

[DevilsReject97]

Originally Posted by FastCarFanBoy

the M6 Camaro just went 12.6@113.7 a few days ago at Edmunds interestingly. C&D managed 118 from theirs? Musta been a ringer

I know you're not serious, but I'm sure a few idiots will think you are...

Again, as we said earlier in this thread, Edmunds isn't a serious performance publication....but when they can't even beat the manual trans with the better/faster A10 Mustang....there's an issue...

The M6 SS will be faster than the M6 GT, that's a fact....

Originally Posted by FastCarFanBoy

you dont have to have gun slit windows in order to shrink cabin size, but I dont think smaller cabin is a route Ford wants to take.

Sorry, but you're not going to fix the weight issues and keep that cabin size. It just won't happen. Additionally, the visibility issues only exist for people who can't adjust their damn mirrors or are not tall to begin with.

I've test driven all 3 of the pony cars, and I can tell you, there isn't a big difference between the 3. All of them have the same blindspots with roughly the same issues.

[BlaqWhole]

Originally Posted by Spartan268

It's funny you had to mention the VQ37VHR in the 370Z. I was going to throw it in my post but I left it out. I'm in a local Nissan/Infiniti group around here since I use to have a G35 (brother has it now). And these guys all get HUGE hard ones the topic of boost. Almost every single person that has attempted this (Supercharger and twins) have had some kind of catastrophic failure.
G37 with supercharger medium boost; blown engine.
G37 with twins; in the shop 80% of the time.
370Z with twins; blew on the dyno.
G35 with spray; another roasted engine.

I love the guys to death but they're delusional for the most part on this topic.

IIRC the MY 18 mustang has been bumped to a compression ratio of 12 so this will be interesting on the boost camp. I'd imagine E85 will be the savior but that's depending on the reliability of the supply. But at the end of the day once you starts throwing in mods and F/I into this topic. It's a question of who has the bigger pockets, the engine itself barely matters after that.

They already have a blower system being set up for it. I'm not sure how it will handle DFI with all that compression and on boost but I would not want to be the tester for that. I also wonder if DFI engines will have limits to the amount of boost and HP they can make. I wonder because I noticed that Dodge chose to stay away from DFI in the HC and Demon.

Originally Posted by Zeke.Malvo

The new Mustang is such a porker (the camaro is no light weight either). I remember when the '03 Cobra came out and bugging out when I saw the coupes weighed 3660 lbs. I remember thinking "What's the point?". I had a convertible and remember the shame in telling people it weighed in at 3780!

Sent from my SM-G955U using Tapatalk

If you want heated/cooled (ventilated) seats, heated steering wheel, blind spot warnings, navigation, rear cameras, smart key tech, auto start, adaptive CC, subwoofers, ambient lighting, and all the other stuff that some of these cars come with, then you're gonna add weight. My 03 GT was very light in comparison. But looking back on it, that thing had no options. Even the premiums had no options really. I'll take the extra weight if it gives me cool gadgets to play with and keeps my butt warm/cool, lol!!

Originally Posted by FastCarFanBoy

the M6 Camaro just went 12.6@113.7 a few days ago at Edmunds interestingly. C&D managed 118 from theirs? Musta been a ringer

The M6 6th Gen SS has always been in the 12.4-12.6 range. That is nothing new and not a ringer. The A8 has always been faster. The same will hold true for the GT. The A10 should be able to tick off a slightly faster time. It gained 25 hp and 20 tq over the Gen 2 Coyote as well as the A10 trans. A good 4 tenths drop should have been expected.

[Chadicus]

Originally Posted by DevilsReject97

I know you're not serious, but I'm sure a few idiots will think you are...

Again, as we said earlier in this thread, Edmunds isn't a serious performance publication....but when they can't even beat the manual trans with the better/faster A10 Mustang....there's an issue...

The M6 SS will be faster than the M6 GT, that's a fact....



Sorry, but you're not going to fix the weight issues and keep that cabin size. It just won't happen. Additionally, the visibility issues only exist for people who can't adjust their damn mirrors or are not tall to begin with.

I've test driven all 3 of the pony cars, and I can tell you, there isn't a big difference between the 3. All of them have the same blindspots with roughly the same issues.

Like Fanboy said I don't think Ford wants to use expensive lightweight materials or develop a new chassis and smaller cabin to cut some weight. They could bump up the power to 485 or so and put 4 piston rear brakes and 305 tires on the PP1 but again, that would be pricey too.

I think Ford is content to be slightly behind the Camaro in the performance metrics because they have been selling well. Remains to be seen what they will do with the higher prices.

[DevilsReject97]

Originally Posted by BlaqWhole

If you want heated/cooled (ventilated) seats, heated steering wheel, blind spot warnings, navigation, rear cameras, smart key tech, auto start, adaptive CC, subwoofers, ambient lighting, and all the other stuff that some of these cars come with, then you're gonna add weight. My 03 GT was very light in comparison. But looking back on it, that thing had no options. Even the premiums had no options really. I'll take the extra weight if it gives me cool gadgets to play with and keeps my butt warm/cool, lol!!

Not to mention all the weight the required safety crap now adds to each car....

[kttxz06]

Originally Posted by DevilsReject97

I do understand where you were going with it, and I do agree in principal there. Ford is leaving wayyyyy too many items as upgrades, instead of standard features.

Additionally, you bring in the GT350 and GT350R....but even those cars were hard pressed by the 1LE SS....so again, still really playing 2nd fiddle..

My point exactly.

[kttxz06]

Originally Posted by 2011shelby

That will be my next car to add alongside my GT 500

Yep. Before I bought my Zl1. Was looking at a '17 Super Snake, but nobody would deal, so said screw it. Bought the Zl1. Glad I did.