2015 Z/28 BRAND NEW $53,819

[Q'smuscle]

Watch these cars be worth more later! Count on it!

[90503]

Originally Posted by SEVEN-OH JOE

If you did a search from the beginning of this program, you would find the number of Z/28s qualifying for this pricing is a very small % of the total number of Camaros that qualify.

Somehow, this discussion has swung to try and paint the Z/28 as some sort of "failure" in the marketplace. Such is NOT the case. Well over 50% of production, thus far, has been sold at or near (either side) of MSRP. A few dealers tried to take advantage of the small number produced so far...and have NOW been "rewarded" for their efforts. This is not a bailout but, in fact, a market correction, in pricing AND in inventory levels. The fact that you, as a consumer, are allowed this extraordinary opportunity to buy a Z/28 under this program is GM's way of sustaining momentum in a "winter" market (generally much slower sales in a large portion of the country), in the face of "what lies ahead".

Dealers with few(er) units sitting in inventory are bound to fresh-order more. That sustains the momentum in, and from, the factory, and sustains the momentum at dealer levels by presenting new(er) fresh(er) units.

So a better solution would be a 50% price reduction on let's say 80% of that lousy oldest inventory....to reduce that pesky inventory of new cars, correct market price, add momentum, keep fresher cars on the lot...lol...(Can't have any of those brand new '15 Z/28s clogging up the works!)

[Zslash28]

Originally Posted by SEVEN-OH JOE

If you did a search from the beginning of this program, you would find the number of Z/28s qualifying for this pricing is a very small % of the total number of Camaros that qualify.

Somehow, this discussion has swung to try and paint the Z/28 as some sort of "failure" in the marketplace. Such is NOT the case. Well over 50% of production, thus far, has been sold at or near (either side) of MSRP. A few dealers tried to take advantage of the small number produced so far...and have NOW been "rewarded" for their efforts. This is not a bailout but, in fact, a market correction, in pricing AND in inventory levels. The fact that you, as a consumer, are allowed this extraordinary opportunity to buy a Z/28 under this program is GM's way of sustaining momentum in a "winter" market (generally much slower sales in a large portion of the country), in the face of "what lies ahead".

Dealers with few(er) units sitting in inventory are bound to fresh-order more. That sustains the momentum in, and from, the factory, and sustains the momentum at dealer levels by presenting new(er) fresh(er) units.

Newer fresher unit that will again sit on lots of dealers who could not move the flagship Camaro. This is a "bail out" for those few dealers who tried to take advantage of the small number produced (Z/28). Market adjustment is what Chrysler did with the Viper back in October by cutting $15K off the top. This 20% off of existing inventory is not market adjustment, an adjustment would have to be sustained. Winter sales booster, and inventory clearance, yes.

[Front Runner]

I do feel that stock Z/28's will hold value better in the future because they are so few in number.

[90503]

Originally Posted by Front Runner

I do feel that stock Z/28's will hold value better in the future because they are so few in number.

....You may be correct....In fact here's one gone...



Here's the "link"....

http://www.camaro5.com/forums/showthread.php?t=389463

Merry Christmas everyone....Drive safely!

[Q'smuscle]

Originally Posted by 90503

....You may be correct....In fact here's one gone...



Here's the "link"....

http://www.camaro5.com/forums/showthread.php?t=389463

Merry Christmas everyone....Drive safely!

Oooooooooh , crap ! What the heck was this person doing?

[2cnd chance]

Originally Posted by ZL1 Spoked

Unfortunately it won't be valued at all in the future. It used an old engine, the same brakes, overpriced.. A car drops 20k off sticker on the same production year, no one in hell will pay more than that in 10 years.

In the "future" this Z/28 will sell for good money as the 60's & 70's muscle cars do well now. Why? Nostalgia. People love reminiscing about the past. And a car that got HUGE press will be at the top of the list. Being its rare supply and demand will come into play as it does today for the old muscle cars pushing prices up.

[johnr265]

First of all, I want to preface that I am now the proud owner of a 2015 Z/28. It is the first American car that I have bought in 25 years and I am giddy like a schoolboy. It is my opinion that the car is not necessarily overpriced for what it is at it’s MSRP and is an absolute steal discounted as it is right now. I will put in my 2 cents regarding the value and relative long term value of a car like this.

My first observation is that car values, like the economy are reactive. When things are bad, everyone assumes they will always be bad and when they are good, people assume they will always be good. Just because there is a high discount off a certain number of Z’s does not mean they will always be undervalued. It does mean that a certain percentage of folks get a great deal on a great car. Witness car prices a few years back. Ford GTs that were 160 new were selling at 120 (now over 200). 996 GT3s were selling in the mid 40’s (now 60-70k). Z06 vettes were high 30’s certified from dealers, now closer to 50. A classic example are the Porsche GT3’s and RS’s. For a while, they were simply impossible to get new unless you put a deposit on one or two years in advance. In 2010-2011, there were GT3 RS’s sitting on dealer lots and could be had for a discount off MSRP (previously unheard of). A year or two later, those cars that sold for 150k new were selling for 100-120 and were difficult to sell. Now, those same cars which seemed destined to plummet in value sell for more than sticker when they were new. Why? A number of reasons. It is not because the 991 GT3 is slower or less capable. It is probably at least in part because the newer car doesn’t come in a manual transmission and because of a significant engine recall. Also, the older cars are more analog. More tied to the driver. It is not always about absolute speed. Most people are not racing and when they take them to the track, the goal is to drive home with a smile on your face, a result more likely in a driver focused car which requires skill and technique to master. Not necessarily in a video game car that produces the fastest lap time.

For longer term, there are many factors that make a car more valuable ranging from cars that were poorly cared for, wrecked, or transported overseas to collectors. Witness cars made in great numbers like the original Mustangs, of which there were millions made but a good example can fetch 60k or more. 10-15 years ago that same car could be had for about 20-30k. Porsches are another example. Cars that represent an end of an era command special value. For example, Porsche 993 Turbos (last of the air cooled) were selling in the 60’s 5 years ago and now over 100k while 996 turbos (first of the water cooled) are selling for about 40k right now even though they are faster and more powerful. Eventually value in these cars will be seen and even they will appreciate (these are actually fairly good cars to snatch up). Other unloved 911 years (the 70’s come to mind) are finally started to appreciate significantly and the days of a bargain 911 are coming to an end.

Third point. A parts bin special is not necessarily a throwaway but a realization of a companies potential if they culminate those parts into something special. Witness the BMW 1M coupe. Slap on an M3 chassis with the suspension, brakes and forged wheels, widen the body, put some nice trim in it, limit it’s production, and you have a cult classic. The 1M, 3 years after it was initally sold, is still being sold by their owners used for more than it cost new. Note too that the press didn’t love the 1M very much (Randy Pobst in particular ironically) yet the press LOVES the Z/28.

Indeed, I think while the present is uncertain for the Z/28, the future is bright. There is an electricity about this car that is intoxicating at any speed and a wonderful focus to it’s mission that is undiluted. For anyone that has tried to modify a car themselves, the end result is rarely properly completed. It is either too much engine for the chassis, brakes and tires or vice versa and for the few that are properly completed to the appropriate balance, the cost invested is obscene, never to be recovered by the original owner in terms of time and $ invested. Having professional engineers do that work for you and then having a major company provide the package discount allows us to have the otherwise unobtainable miracle car and helps in the long term to boost the value of the car.

The Z/28 has a lot going for it. It is clearly one of the last hurrahs for the naturally aspirated, analog old school muscle cars yet it benefits from the pinnacle of modern technology from GM, a major company. It closest true relative is the Porsche GT3, a car which admittedly has greater performance but costs double. Having driven both, I would say the Z/28 offers 90% of the fun for half the cost. It’s build numbers are limited and despite the apparent surplus, in the end there will come a time they will be difficult to obtain. As I predicted a large discount from GM on the car (and waited for it to occur before buying), I predict future value for the car to be quite strong. In a few years when there are none on dealer lots, collectors and enthusiasts have snatched them up and are holding on to them for dear life, there will be a demand for these cars that supply will not keep up with and values will rise. I intend to enjoy mine and not worry too much about it. If I have it long enough for that to occur, great. In the meantime, life is short and this thing is a BEAST. What more could I ask for?

Sorry for the long post. I learned a lot from this forum and hope to contribute more in the future.

[zbzo6]

Originally Posted by johnr265

First of all, I want to preface that I am now the proud owner of a 2015 Z/28. It is the first American car that I have bought in 25 years and I am giddy like a schoolboy. It is my opinion that the car is not necessarily overpriced for what it is at it’s MSRP and is an absolute steal discounted as it is right now. I will put in my 2 cents regarding the value and relative long term value of a car like this.

My first observation is that car values, like the economy are reactive. When things are bad, everyone assumes they will always be bad and when they are good, people assume they will always be good. Just because there is a high discount off a certain number of Z’s does not mean they will always be undervalued. It does mean that a certain percentage of folks get a great deal on a great car. Witness car prices a few years back. Ford GTs that were 160 new were selling at 120 (now over 200). 996 GT3s were selling in the mid 40’s (now 60-70k). Z06 vettes were high 30’s certified from dealers, now closer to 50. A classic example are the Porsche GT3’s and RS’s. For a while, they were simply impossible to get new unless you put a deposit on one or two years in advance. In 2010-2011, there were GT3 RS’s sitting on dealer lots and could be had for a discount off MSRP (previously unheard of). A year or two later, those cars that sold for 150k new were selling for 100-120 and were difficult to sell. Now, those same cars which seemed destined to plummet in value sell for more than sticker when they were new. Why? A number of reasons. It is not because the 991 GT3 is slower or less capable. It is probably at least in part because the newer car doesn’t come in a manual transmission and because of a significant engine recall. Also, the older cars are more analog. More tied to the driver. It is not always about absolute speed. Most people are not racing and when they take them to the track, the goal is to drive home with a smile on your face, a result more likely in a driver focused car which requires skill and technique to master. Not necessarily in a video game car that produces the fastest lap time.

For longer term, there are many factors that make a car more valuable ranging from cars that were poorly cared for, wrecked, or transported overseas to collectors. Witness cars made in great numbers like the original Mustangs, of which there were millions made but a good example can fetch 60k or more. 10-15 years ago that same car could be had for about 20-30k. Porsches are another example. Cars that represent an end of an era command special value. For example, Porsche 993 Turbos (last of the air cooled) were selling in the 60’s 5 years ago and now over 100k while 996 turbos (first of the water cooled) are selling for about 40k right now even though they are faster and more powerful. Eventually value in these cars will be seen and even they will appreciate (these are actually fairly good cars to snatch up). Other unloved 911 years (the 70’s come to mind) are finally started to appreciate significantly and the days of a bargain 911 are coming to an end.

Third point. A parts bin special is not necessarily a throwaway but a realization of a companies potential if they culminate those parts into something special. Witness the BMW 1M coupe. Slap on an M3 chassis with the suspension, brakes and forged wheels, widen the body, put some nice trim in it, limit it’s production, and you have a cult classic. The 1M, 3 years after it was initally sold, is still being sold by their owners used for more than it cost new. Note too that the press didn’t love the 1M very much (Randy Pobst in particular ironically) yet the press LOVES the Z/28.

Indeed, I think while the present is uncertain for the Z/28, the future is bright. There is an electricity about this car that is intoxicating at any speed and a wonderful focus to it’s mission that is undiluted. For anyone that has tried to modify a car themselves, the end result is rarely properly completed. It is either too much engine for the chassis, brakes and tires or vice versa and for the few that are properly completed to the appropriate balance, the cost invested is obscene, never to be recovered by the original owner in terms of time and $ invested. Having professional engineers do that work for you and then having a major company provide the package discount allows us to have the otherwise unobtainable miracle car and helps in the long term to boost the value of the car.

The Z/28 has a lot going for it. It is clearly one of the last hurrahs for the naturally aspirated, analog old school muscle cars yet it benefits from the pinnacle of modern technology from GM, a major company. It closest true relative is the Porsche GT3, a car which admittedly has greater performance but costs double. Having driven both, I would say the Z/28 offers 90% of the fun for half the cost. It’s build numbers are limited and despite the apparent surplus, in the end there will come a time they will be difficult to obtain. As I predicted a large discount from GM on the car (and waited for it to occur before buying), I predict future value for the car to be quite strong. In a few years when there are none on dealer lots, collectors and enthusiasts have snatched them up and are holding on to them for dear life, there will be a demand for these cars that supply will not keep up with and values will rise. I intend to enjoy mine and not worry too much about it. If I have it long enough for that to occur, great. In the meantime, life is short and this thing is a BEAST. What more could I ask for?

Sorry for the long post. I learned a lot from this forum and hope to contribute more in the future.

Yes quite a long post but a good analogy

[90503]

I would love to buy a new Z/28...store it for posterity, and see what happens. If any 5th Gen Camaro falls into the collectable category, I'm sure it's this one, and probably only this one.

How much longer will v8s even be produced??....What sort of cars will be completely discontinued or no longer viable to even own in the future?....Will the type of fuel these cars require now even be available in 30-40 years?....A lot of unknowns in a very short-term volatile future for cars that to me make this Z/28 somewhat of a miracle even now...

But this giant purchase price swing in just the first year of availability skews things for collectors, buyers....everybody.... It's a major price conundrum even for a possible sure-thing collectable...

I chalk it up to the "It's still just a Chevy" mentality....I believed GM tried to compete and up it's vibe competing for pricier German car buyers....but this 20% price reduction I think sends the wrong message for value, collectability, etc....Even used car prices, trade-ins, are all seen in a different (de-valued) light....

If we knew for sure Z/28s would be produced for the long-term, perhaps this would be a small blip on the screen....But it seems now it's a pretty significant blip and cause for uncertainty regarding any perceived value, either now or in the future....

[oldfriend]

Originally Posted by johnr265

First of all, I want to preface that I am now the proud owner of a 2015 Z/28. It is the first American car that I have bought in 25 years and I am giddy like a schoolboy. It is my opinion that the car is not necessarily overpriced for what it is at it’s MSRP and is an absolute steal discounted as it is right now. I will put in my 2 cents regarding the value and relative long term value of a car like this.

My first observation is that car values, like the economy are reactive. When things are bad, everyone assumes they will always be bad and when they are good, people assume they will always be good. Just because there is a high discount off a certain number of Z’s does not mean they will always be undervalued. It does mean that a certain percentage of folks get a great deal on a great car. Witness car prices a few years back. Ford GTs that were 160 new were selling at 120 (now over 200). 996 GT3s were selling in the mid 40’s (now 60-70k). Z06 vettes were high 30’s certified from dealers, now closer to 50. A classic example are the Porsche GT3’s and RS’s. For a while, they were simply impossible to get new unless you put a deposit on one or two years in advance. In 2010-2011, there were GT3 RS’s sitting on dealer lots and could be had for a discount off MSRP (previously unheard of). A year or two later, those cars that sold for 150k new were selling for 100-120 and were difficult to sell. Now, those same cars which seemed destined to plummet in value sell for more than sticker when they were new. Why? A number of reasons. It is not because the 991 GT3 is slower or less capable. It is probably at least in part because the newer car doesn’t come in a manual transmission and because of a significant engine recall. Also, the older cars are more analog. More tied to the driver. It is not always about absolute speed. Most people are not racing and when they take them to the track, the goal is to drive home with a smile on your face, a result more likely in a driver focused car which requires skill and technique to master. Not necessarily in a video game car that produces the fastest lap time.

For longer term, there are many factors that make a car more valuable ranging from cars that were poorly cared for, wrecked, or transported overseas to collectors. Witness cars made in great numbers like the original Mustangs, of which there were millions made but a good example can fetch 60k or more. 10-15 years ago that same car could be had for about 20-30k. Porsches are another example. Cars that represent an end of an era command special value. For example, Porsche 993 Turbos (last of the air cooled) were selling in the 60’s 5 years ago and now over 100k while 996 turbos (first of the water cooled) are selling for about 40k right now even though they are faster and more powerful. Eventually value in these cars will be seen and even they will appreciate (these are actually fairly good cars to snatch up). Other unloved 911 years (the 70’s come to mind) are finally started to appreciate significantly and the days of a bargain 911 are coming to an end.

Third point. A parts bin special is not necessarily a throwaway but a realization of a companies potential if they culminate those parts into something special. Witness the BMW 1M coupe. Slap on an M3 chassis with the suspension, brakes and forged wheels, widen the body, put some nice trim in it, limit it’s production, and you have a cult classic. The 1M, 3 years after it was initally sold, is still being sold by their owners used for more than it cost new. Note too that the press didn’t love the 1M very much (Randy Pobst in particular ironically) yet the press LOVES the Z/28.

Indeed, I think while the present is uncertain for the Z/28, the future is bright. There is an electricity about this car that is intoxicating at any speed and a wonderful focus to it’s mission that is undiluted. For anyone that has tried to modify a car themselves, the end result is rarely properly completed. It is either too much engine for the chassis, brakes and tires or vice versa and for the few that are properly completed to the appropriate balance, the cost invested is obscene, never to be recovered by the original owner in terms of time and $ invested. Having professional engineers do that work for you and then having a major company provide the package discount allows us to have the otherwise unobtainable miracle car and helps in the long term to boost the value of the car.

The Z/28 has a lot going for it. It is clearly one of the last hurrahs for the naturally aspirated, analog old school muscle cars yet it benefits from the pinnacle of modern technology from GM, a major company. It closest true relative is the Porsche GT3, a car which admittedly has greater performance but costs double. Having driven both, I would say the Z/28 offers 90% of the fun for half the cost. It’s build numbers are limited and despite the apparent surplus, in the end there will come a time they will be difficult to obtain. As I predicted a large discount from GM on the car (and waited for it to occur before buying), I predict future value for the car to be quite strong. In a few years when there are none on dealer lots, collectors and enthusiasts have snatched them up and are holding on to them for dear life, there will be a demand for these cars that supply will not keep up with and values will rise. I intend to enjoy mine and not worry too much about it. If I have it long enough for that to occur, great. In the meantime, life is short and this thing is a BEAST. What more could I ask for?

Sorry for the long post. I learned a lot from this forum and hope to contribute more in the future.

Don't know what you do for a living , but you car articulate and write way better than most off the guys that do it for (car & ) ( road&) and others and do it a living
Well done

[Q'smuscle]

Originally Posted by 2cnd chance

In the "future" this Z/28 will sell for good money as the 60's & 70's muscle cars do well now. Why? Nostalgia. People love reminiscing about the past. And a car that got HUGE press will be at the top of the list. Being its rare supply and demand will come into play as it does today for the old muscle cars pushing prices up.

exactly! It's just like other cars that have great performance! Ppl want the stuff even more when it's gone and hard to find! Ppl later realizes how special a car was after they missed getting one!

[DrkPhx]

I think the 5th gen Z/28 will be worth something in the future considering it is the last big cube n/a motor that will be in a Camaro

[RSZ]

Originally Posted by johnr265

First of all, I want to preface that I am now the proud owner of a 2015 Z/28. It is the first American car that I have bought in 25 years and I am giddy like a schoolboy. It is my opinion that the car is not necessarily overpriced for what it is at it’s MSRP and is an absolute steal discounted as it is right now. I will put in my 2 cents regarding the value and relative long term value of a car like this.

My first observation is that car values, like the economy are reactive. When things are bad, everyone assumes they will always be bad and when they are good, people assume they will always be good. Just because there is a high discount off a certain number of Z’s does not mean they will always be undervalued. It does mean that a certain percentage of folks get a great deal on a great car. Witness car prices a few years back. Ford GTs that were 160 new were selling at 120 (now over 200). 996 GT3s were selling in the mid 40’s (now 60-70k). Z06 vettes were high 30’s certified from dealers, now closer to 50. A classic example are the Porsche GT3’s and RS’s. For a while, they were simply impossible to get new unless you put a deposit on one or two years in advance. In 2010-2011, there were GT3 RS’s sitting on dealer lots and could be had for a discount off MSRP (previously unheard of). A year or two later, those cars that sold for 150k new were selling for 100-120 and were difficult to sell. Now, those same cars which seemed destined to plummet in value sell for more than sticker when they were new. Why? A number of reasons. It is not because the 991 GT3 is slower or less capable. It is probably at least in part because the newer car doesn’t come in a manual transmission and because of a significant engine recall. Also, the older cars are more analog. More tied to the driver. It is not always about absolute speed. Most people are not racing and when they take them to the track, the goal is to drive home with a smile on your face, a result more likely in a driver focused car which requires skill and technique to master. Not necessarily in a video game car that produces the fastest lap time.

For longer term, there are many factors that make a car more valuable ranging from cars that were poorly cared for, wrecked, or transported overseas to collectors. Witness cars made in great numbers like the original Mustangs, of which there were millions made but a good example can fetch 60k or more. 10-15 years ago that same car could be had for about 20-30k. Porsches are another example. Cars that represent an end of an era command special value. For example, Porsche 993 Turbos (last of the air cooled) were selling in the 60’s 5 years ago and now over 100k while 996 turbos (first of the water cooled) are selling for about 40k right now even though they are faster and more powerful. Eventually value in these cars will be seen and even they will appreciate (these are actually fairly good cars to snatch up). Other unloved 911 years (the 70’s come to mind) are finally started to appreciate significantly and the days of a bargain 911 are coming to an end.

Third point. A parts bin special is not necessarily a throwaway but a realization of a companies potential if they culminate those parts into something special. Witness the BMW 1M coupe. Slap on an M3 chassis with the suspension, brakes and forged wheels, widen the body, put some nice trim in it, limit it’s production, and you have a cult classic. The 1M, 3 years after it was initally sold, is still being sold by their owners used for more than it cost new. Note too that the press didn’t love the 1M very much (Randy Pobst in particular ironically) yet the press LOVES the Z/28.

Indeed, I think while the present is uncertain for the Z/28, the future is bright. There is an electricity about this car that is intoxicating at any speed and a wonderful focus to it’s mission that is undiluted. For anyone that has tried to modify a car themselves, the end result is rarely properly completed. It is either too much engine for the chassis, brakes and tires or vice versa and for the few that are properly completed to the appropriate balance, the cost invested is obscene, never to be recovered by the original owner in terms of time and $ invested. Having professional engineers do that work for you and then having a major company provide the package discount allows us to have the otherwise unobtainable miracle car and helps in the long term to boost the value of the car.

The Z/28 has a lot going for it. It is clearly one of the last hurrahs for the naturally aspirated, analog old school muscle cars yet it benefits from the pinnacle of modern technology from GM, a major company. It closest true relative is the Porsche GT3, a car which admittedly has greater performance but costs double. Having driven both, I would say the Z/28 offers 90% of the fun for half the cost. It’s build numbers are limited and despite the apparent surplus, in the end there will come a time they will be difficult to obtain. As I predicted a large discount from GM on the car (and waited for it to occur before buying), I predict future value for the car to be quite strong. In a few years when there are none on dealer lots, collectors and enthusiasts have snatched them up and are holding on to them for dear life, there will be a demand for these cars that supply will not keep up with and values will rise. I intend to enjoy mine and not worry too much about it. If I have it long enough for that to occur, great. In the meantime, life is short and this thing is a BEAST. What more could I ask for?

Sorry for the long post. I learned a lot from this forum and hope to contribute more in the future.

Well said. You hit this one right in the bulls’ eye. Totally agree. It has been over 13 years since I owned a GM product. Nothing else they offer intrigued me as this car does; though I did own a 68 and 69 Z/28 when I was a spry youth.