2015 Challenger Hellcat 707 HP

[LOWDOWN]

Originally Posted by 72MachOne99GT

aww come on...you cant be that big of a sour puss...

Theres a hooplah every time something new and cool comes out...

ford probably had the f body forums doubling as suicide help lines when the terminator came out, not to mention the man love everyone wanted to make with Colletti
The GT and c6Zo6 both created automotive porn addictions
The zl1 had everyone on this site moist
The announcement of the 13 shelby almost wrecked this place
The z/28 created more back patting circle jerks than I care to know about
And now this hellcat is bringing out the auto equivalent of Y2Kers

loosen up and enjoy the shit show. ..You'll have your laughs when the c7z06 bends everything over the proverbial bed and has a field day.

Sadly, for all that the 'net includes, it EXCLUDES a "sarcasm" icohn...which I regularly require...

Originally Posted by macwest

You call the z/28 a good business decision. The car is seen to most comes as a stripped down overpriced camaro. Had Gm put the 427 in with options like a zl1 it would have sold like hot cakes or Had the z/28 been mid to high 50's I would say differently But look were most are. Still collecting dust at dealerships. Dodge is wise on their route. They have many packages which should help increase total sales...and price$...

The challenger only weighs 250lbs more then the ZL1 so by your own word the ZL1 is a pig too. Well, it's no flyweight... challenger has active suspension (different supplier, different system) just like ZL1 (no, it's not) and 6 piston brembos. So the challenger will handle just fine (film @ 11?). I suspect just like camaro if you add in solid subframes bushings it will be like night and day on both handling and takeoffs. So why doesn't FCA include those on a Challenger T/A package?

As for Nascar vs NHRA. more may watch Nascar but allot more participate in NHRA Wednesday night drags. So if you are buying a car to participate in then it sounds like drag racing wins. Or street racing [not that anyone would sanction such a thought] and ESPECIALLY bench racing...

On pig cars only car so far that has lost weight is the mustang (OH?! Seems the numbers released say it GAINED weight - IRS, remember?) and even though I am not a big ford fan the new SVT mustang is a beast and if their claims are correct I think all manufactures may be chasing them.

So the Hellcat is already playing "second fiddle"? FCA will be pleased with that assessment...

Originally Posted by Front Runner

2013 sales figures by percentage according to Autoevolution

Camaro - 38.5%
Mustang - 36.9 %
Challenger - 24.6 %

See pie chart, below. I said MOPAR, not Challenger. And I misspoke when I said "90% wouldn't". It should have been typed as "88%" (as per 6/14). So sorry...

Originally Posted by 72MachOne99GT

I'm not too sure the 6sp is going to be whooping the GT500s ass....they are going to be ridiculously close, and I could argue that 6sp vs 6sp the GT500 at 55k is a better deal. Agreed.

That's not the point though. Dodge has released their monster and released it with an auto. That's the difference between it and the GT500. I'm not an auto fan, but recognize what it is capable of, and Ford never got into the game with one and it's cost them title of the quickest quarter mile in the muscle car game.

As noted elsewhere. Ford, with a well-integrated Automatic in the GT500 combined with killer electronics, would have been a braggadocious beast.

Originally Posted by PoorMansCamaro

to be fair, the ZR1 is about double the cost of what the hellcat is going to be.

You're missing the entire point of "HALO" vehicles, as traffic builders...cost is irrelevant...people in dealerships is more significant (as a traffic builder, which a "halo" is also tasked with doing)...

Originally Posted by Runin11z

This is what kills me about Team Camaro saying they are staying true to the monikers they are using. The ZL1 engine option was the top COPO offered in its time and was mainly a bare bones car with a racing engine.. It was also the most expensive Camaro of its time... So if staying true means turning the ZL1 into a road track car and making the Z/28 an ultra road track car and mainly not obtainable by the same folks that would have bought them back in the day, I guess I have my wires crossed somewhere.....

Personally, I think the race-only COPO should have been called the ZL1. They "officially" build 69/year, which the COPO 9560 program provided in '69. The Z/28 badge is reasonably well-applied. So, what should the ZL1 have been called? They DID "do the right thing" by NOT calling the ZL1 a "Z/28". That is indisputable... Fact is, when "ZL1" was initially announced, the "great unwashed" had to scramble here, or to wiki to find out what the H-E-doublehockeysticks a "ZL1" even was, or meant...because so few ever existed, and some "experts" heretofore denied the very cars' existence!.

And let's recall the "11's all day" statement made about the ZL1 by Mr. O maybe that was to save some face of the ZL1 to the ones that truly understood what the ZL1 was in its time... Too bad he failed to mention those runs were on drag radials...

TWO points, here. "11's all day" was based on mule performances. But then, if you recall, there was a "stop" on initial deliveries of ZL1s. Could it be the "final" OEM tune that ultimately appeared in showrooms/driveways across the nation was different than the mules utilized? EPA? Emissions-related?

And point 2, on DRs, the car DID deliver 11's...even with the "fresh" tune.

And compare that Chief Engineer's misspeak to Dave Pericak's continued INSISTANCE that the Gen-6 Mustang would lose "at least 200 lb." when in fact the GT GAINED about 100... Limber up your arms, and get your stones ready...

It strikes me as funny that there are those that think the ZL1 contains "too many" features, while the Z/28 contains "too few". You MUST look at the separate, distinct intended market for EACH of those cars...AND you MUST recognize the FACT that Chev-GM are NOT able to build an "unlimited" number of Z/28s, which CERTAINLY had its affect on price.

With regard to Hellcat pricing, the $59,995 MSRP is NOT a loaded-like-ZL1 price. The actual Base content is LESS features, and therefore less cost to FCA, comparatively. Hellcat will come in BETWEEN the ZL1 and the Z/28 in content (and therefore PRICE), and those ever-popular OPTIONS will allow buyers to take the car to whatever level they choose/can afford. Smart marketing, when you only have the capability to market ONE "halo" instead of TWO, as Ford (GT500-BOSS) and GM (ZL1-Z/28) provided...

Class dismissed...

[newmoon]

The list of standard options for the $59,995.00 Hellcat looks pretty dam good to me.

http://chryslermedia.iconicweb.com/m...EATURES_v2.pdf

[rocket403]

"only options you can add to the hellcat are the Bass monkey rims, Laguna leather and the upgrader radio, Sunroof, satin hood and engine heater."

Everything else comes standard so not sure of the loaded like price comment.

Just a little Anti Dodge there Lowdown

There are some Chevy only guys I have met that I have no time for. and not really from the Dodge perspective, as a really big OLDS guy I had met lots of guys that were Chevy only and had real dislike even for other GM brands, the main comment on all my Olds was why didn't you put a Chevy in it, that's when I just walk away.

[LOWDOWN]

Originally Posted by rocket403

Just a little Anti Dodge there Lowdown

Not at all. Don't let my "dose of reality" permeate the "707 HP!!" set.

My debate regarding the car is valid. Not a singular perspective, I fully understand, but fully valid nonetheless...

Dodge now only has ONE "halo" to share with potential Challenger buyers who may have more than ONE version of "ideal vehicle" in mind...

So, what they've adopted and no doubt targeted is the GT500 strategy. But, instead of Ford's faux pas of ONLY offering a stick in a car with tremendous weight-to-power and then being unable to FULLY realize all that potential while maintaining a Ford-appropriate price (while avoiding the GG tax!), Mother Mopar has seen the (GREEN!) light and added an Automatic and a fully integrated electronic launch assist system to "run the phat time". Actually, quite like the ZL1's "have it your way" trans. situation. Kudos (or is that Cudas?!) to them.

ONE car to try and match TWO from others. "ALL things to ALL people". Well, maybe not ALL...maybe just 3,000 or so...

BTW, my classic weapons of choice? Stage 1 and Turbo-T BUICKS... Flint Flyers that snacked on Lansing Lard-asses...

TORQUE ON!

[rocket403]

Think you are forgetting the 707hp Charger Halo car

Mine is a Rocket 455 Cultass

[LOWDOWN]

Originally Posted by rocket403

Think you are forgetting the 707hp Charger Halo car

WHOO-HOOO...just what the wife 'n kids need for grocery-getting!

Mine is a Rocket 455 Cultass

By all means, please enjoy this Kathy Mattea musical interlude:

.

[hotlap]

Originally Posted by Runin11z

This is what kills me about Team Camaro saying they are staying true to the monikers they are using. The ZL1 engine option was the top COPO offered in its time and was mainly a bare bones car with a racing engine.. It was also the most expensive Camaro of its time... So if staying true means turning the ZL1 into a road track car and making the Z/28 an ultra road track car and mainly not obtainable by the same folks that would have bought them back in the day, I guess I have my wires crossed somewhere.....

The ZL1 does have the unique to ZL1 only, drag race rear end so it loosely fits the name. Chevy never built a specific car to directly counter the 67-70 GT500 so given there was a COPO offering, ZL1 fit better than any other.

I think the shift to the Z/28 and it formula was the direct result of the Boss and Laguna Seca. Answer the weight criticism and make it raw. The Z/28 is expensive and built in low numbers but so was the 65-66 GT350. No one thinks that was a mistake

[rocket403]

I have that stored on my RT hard drive play it while in the Dodge LOL

[LOWDOWN]

Originally Posted by rocket403

Mine is a Rocket 455 Cultass

Here's something "infamous" for both Olds and Mopar fans.

https://myclassicgarage.com/social/p...-a-hemi-killer

No mention of Dr. Oldsmobile's W30...Elephant Engine Ernie musta lost his spanner wrench...

EDIT: Notice those ultra-high performance WHITE WALL TIRES. Woodward Avenue was NEVER the same...

[LOWDOWN]

Originally Posted by hotlapZL1

Chevy never directly built a specific car to counter the 67-70 GT500 so given there was a COPO offering, ZL1 fit better than any other.

First off, "Shelby" was an official aftermarket operation...like Yenko, and Nicky, and Bill Thomas, and Motion, and...well, you get the idea...

Secondly, with regard to engine availability, in '69 there were TWO COPO programs. 9561 included the iron-block-and-headed L72 427-425 hp. engine...and sold AS A BASE CAR WITH MANDATORY OPTIONS for less dough than a Z/28, or an SS396-375 hp Camaro. And no CJ GT500 could touch it...

I think the shift to the Z/28 and it formula was the direct result of the Boss and Laguna Seca. Answer the weight criticism and make it raw. The Z/28 is expensive and built in low numbers but so was the 65-66 GT350. No one thinks that was a mistake

Agreed. Well, those GT350-H cars with only 250 hp and Automatics were necessary to build some volume and bring Unit Costs down... Funny how people now pay as much for those as they do for REAL GT350s...

[hotlap]

Originally Posted by LOWDOWN

First off, "Shelby" was an official aftermarket operation...like Yenko, and Nicky, and Bill Thomas, and Motion, and...well, you get the idea...

Secondly, with regard to engine availability, in '69 there were TWO COPO programs. 9561 included the iron-block-and-headed L72 427-425 hp. engine...and sold AS A BASE CAR WITH MANDATORY OPTIONS for less dough than a Z/28, or an SS396-375 hp Camaro. And no CJ GT500 could touch it...

I would have been very happy with SS396 if Chevy would have been willing to punch out the LSA to 6.5L

[rocket403]

Couple issues I have

"With regard to Hellcat pricing, the $59,995 MSRP is NOT a loaded-like-ZL1 price"

looking at the option list I only see 4 options really for the Hellcat so not sure what you are talking about

"Smart marketing, when you only have the capability to market ONE "halo" instead of TWO, as Ford (GT500-BOSS) and GM (ZL1-Z/28) provided"

I'm thinking you left the Hellcat Charger off the list of yours because it has 4 doors and only a woman would drive a 4 door 707hp sedan (your comments) so I guess the guy with 3 kids and has to have a 4 door does not count.

In Canada GM has two rear drive cars both are not family friendly (sadly) as I fall into the category of needing a family car I was very lucky to get a beater that could fulfill the times that I needed a 4 door family car and when my RT gets put away for the winter.
Then we can add the Viper as a Halo car (I know low sales) there are rumours that this will get 800hp in the next refresh.

[LOWDOWN]

Originally Posted by hotlapZL1

I would have been very happy with SS396 if Chevy would have been willing to punch out the LSA to 6.5L

Actually, in its final form, the "396" was in fact a .30-over 402 = 6.5+

[LOWDOWN]

Originally Posted by rocket403

"With regard to Hellcat pricing, the $59,995 MSRP is NOT a loaded-like-ZL1 price"

looking at the option list I only see 4 options really for the Hellcat so not sure what you are talking about

Is "rich Corinthian Leather" (or some such name) an option? How much? Domestic cattle give up their hides for EACH ZL1...

"Smart marketing, when you only have the capability to market ONE "halo" instead of TWO, as Ford (GT500-BOSS) and GM (ZL1-Z/28) provided"

I'm thinking you left the Hellcat Charger off the list of yours because it has 4 doors and only a woman would drive a 4 door 707hp sedan (your comments) so I guess the guy with 3 kids and has to have a 4 door does not count.

Yes, he certainly does. And what are Mopar's expected sales of this fine piece? It's main market may be southern Sheriffs with a lust for "high-speed pursuit ve-hicles..."

In Canada GM has two rear drive cars both are not family friendly (sadly) as I fall into the category of needing a family car.

Try a CTS, for le$$ dough than the Charger Daytona (wing optional) Sergio Series...


Then we can add the Viper as a Halo car (I know low sales) there are rumours that this will get 800hp in the next refresh.

Hell, Dodge dealers don't even ORDER 'em, let alone SELL 'em. How many have they assembled in the last 60 days? And, at 800 hp and a $150K+ tag, that will be the version to SAVE THE SNAKE? OK, then...

Memo to Sergio: Yank the Viper's V10, stuff it full of Tomcat-blowed V8, drop the price to $89,900...and Bob's yer uncle... Oh, and change this version's name to Mongoose...