What are your views on this, plz read

[PQ]

Well then let's hope they can get it fixed so they can move on to the next problem. And we should at least be able to conclude that the union is at least a part of the problem and it could be debated as to how much of the problem.

I don't think that they are THE problem as many do. It's kind of amazing to me that people seem to dismiss the fact of the economy and vilify the auto companies.

[DGthe3]

Originally Posted by irpq11

Well then let's hope they can get it fixed so they can move on to the next problem. And we should at least be able to conclude that the union is at least a part of the problem and it could be debated as to how much of the problem. I don't think that they are THE problem as many do.

Agreed. There are lots of other problems too (reputation, trade policy, management, current economy), some are even a mixture other base factors. But unions are not the only thing that the domestic automakers have to deal with.

It's kind of amazing to me that people seem to dismiss the fact of the economy and vilify the auto companies.

But when people like us can read up on things and discus it with other knowledgeable car enthusiasts and there are still enthusiasts who don't know that assembly line workers aren't making $70/hr, what hope does the general public have?

[PQ]

Originally Posted by DGthe3

Agreed. There are lots of other problems too (reputation, trade policy, management, current economy), some are even a mixture other base factors. But unions are not the only thing that the domestic automakers have to deal with.
But when people like us can read up on things and discus it with other knowledgeable car enthusiasts and there are still enthusiasts who don't know that assembly line workers aren't making $70/hr, what hope does the general public have?

very few do the research. Dept of the Treasury, Library of Congress, History, you name it. It's all available online. I listen to talk radio, read the news, watch the news. A little cross referancing goes a long way. Some have one outlet and that's good enough for them. Oh well, we'll see what happens.

[t3chfr3ak]

For one, the pay assembly workers get isnt the problem, so I would not blame them. They are making middle income salaries. The problem is with the UAW and their waste of spending. Get rid of the union, keep pay reasonable and everyone is happy. Yeah if it was only that easy.

[rocknrollcali87]

Small steps, small steps into this touchy subject

OK Before I jump into this, the UAW backs the worker up which works for either top dog (GM, Chrysler, Ford) making sure that the company in which they work gives them fair job working conditions as well as a backing of a sustainable life outside work by getting the company to back their workers up with healthcare, dental, etc so that they are a healthy worker.

This free trade-fair trade I'm not familiar with, but I think Fair is better than free any day.

This mayor sounds like he has been upset for sometime for his people. GM and all the other divisions really setup a nice workforce for everyone back east and now it's in danger. Not to be a smart ass by saying danger but when one is used to a certain living, and it's changed rapidly? That's pretty serious

Am I on the right track?

[PQ]

Originally Posted by rocknrollcali87

Small steps, small steps into this touchy subject

OK Before I jump into this, the UAW backs the worker up which works for either top dog (GM, Chrysler, Ford) making sure that the company in which they work gives them fair job working conditions as well as a backing of a sustainable life outside work by getting the company to back their workers up with healthcare, dental, etc so that they are a healthy worker.

This free trade-fair trade I'm not familiar with, but I think Fair is better than free any day.

This mayor sounds like he has been upset for sometime for his people. GM and all the other divisions really setup a nice workforce for everyone back east and now it's in danger. Not to be a smart ass by saying danger but when one is used to a certain living, and it's changed rapidly? That's pretty serious

Am I on the right track?

Right track, yes. But some of the workers are going to lose their jobs and that's more serious than a cut in pay and benies, all day long. But it's either all of them take a ridiculous cut in pay, or some of them lose their jobs.As I was saying earlier, the "really nice workforce" is not sustainable. The conditions are too good. You siad "Fair job working conditions". Not so, they get alot more than fair. Most people in the country have to work much harder and longer and are more productive than the UAW workers. Of course they may argue with this but it's not something I'll concede. I get that they are not paid the way the media makes out but their wages are still better than the competition, at least they were before lately. The working conditions are WAY above Gov. regs. But the UAW is only one of many problems for the industry, and that's being rectified.

MuscleMaster, I like you (despite the Dadge thing JK) but until you have 20 or so years in the work force I don't see why this makes you so mad. The UAW is in the process of conceding a number of things. It's time to look at some of the other things that need to be done.

[rocknrollcali87]

Originally Posted by irpq11

Right track, yes. But some of the workers are going to lose their jobs and that's mo...

I couldn't help but think of all the cuts they've done already over the course of 5 years and the closing of plants. Do you know if those people still get some kind of pay?

I think you're right that they are used to certain conditions of working and that there workers have had the best in benefits and pay but it's a gradual slow and steady loss and I think GM & the UAW knows this and they're playing it by plan up until they either cut their losses or fall totally.

But I don't think it's right that a working man or woman lose out totally on their job so fast.

[DGthe3]

Originally Posted by rocknrollcali87

I couldn't help but think of all the cuts they've done already over the course of 5 years and the closing of plants. Do you know if those people still get some kind of pay?

I think you're right that they are used to certain conditions of working and that there workers have had the best in benefits and pay but it's a gradual slow and steady loss and I think GM & the UAW knows this and they're playing it by plan up until they either cut their losses or fall totally.

But I don't think it's right that a working man or woman lose out totally on their job so fast.

Most of the job cuts have come by way of early retirement so they'd get their pension. And a lot took a buyout as well. So they aren't in too rough of shape, but most would probably have preferred to keep their job. The closed plants relocated as many workers as possible to other nearby plants, however this is not always possible. But its sorta like a starvation diet. To stay alive, your body will first consume stored fat (excess workers near retirement), then muscle (decent workers you can do without), then the vital organs (good workers you can no longer afford to keep). Right now, I'd guess that they are out of 'muscle' to lose.