10-30-2008, 03:20 PM | #85 |
Can't argue with that. A sale is a sale.
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10-30-2008, 04:14 PM | #86 | |
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Quote:
Ask Scott. Go ahead, ask him..... he will tell you GM is going to try really hard to get the notion that the Camaro is an American "muscle car" out of people's heads. He's already alluded to that. The SS is there simply for us passionate enthusiasts, historical purposes, and "bragging rights" over any Mustang and Challenger owner. But the truth of the matter is GM could put any other badge on the car, and change the front and rear end design so it doesn't look like a Camaro, remove the SS trim option completely, and the LT would be put up against an Accord V6 coupe and Altima V6 coupe in every, single review and comparison. In fact, http://www.camaro5.com/goods/camaroorderingworkbook.pdf scroll down to page 12. GM already understands the fundamental difference in the customer focus of the LT and SS. Trust me, I understand everything you are saying. Years ago, that was the mentality of most of us here on this forum, and most of the people working for GM. There was no way any Camaro, 4 cylinder, V6, or V8 would ever be compared to anything made by a Japanese company. But this is 2008, not 1988. Times have changed, and if you haven't noticed, so has GM's market share, finacial status, and the way the global automotive market competes. For GM to be successfull, the V6 Camaro must attract people never even considered years ago. For that, it must be competitive to what else is out there in the market. The Monte Carlo was a joke compared to the Accord. The G6 can't be had with a stick, and there isn't a Malibu coupe so the focus for the Camaro V6 is what it's never been before: a modern, sophisticated touring coupe. |
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10-30-2008, 07:48 PM | #87 |
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2008 Honda Accord Coupe EX-L V-6 - Specs
PRICE AS TESTED: $31,145 (base price: $28,945) I think this is more of a SS competitor. MSRP is only about $1K more. I would definitely not put this car in the same price range as a LS with almost $7K lower base.
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10-30-2008, 09:03 PM | #88 | |
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That price is with navigation. Without nav it's 28k. |
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10-30-2008, 09:34 PM | #89 |
Drives: 2000 Z28 Join Date: Oct 2008
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I was comparing the base prices. $28,945 for the Accord and $22,245 for the Camaro. That's $6,700 more. Maybe we should compare the base 4 cylinder Accord to the 6 cylinder Camaro. Accord LX-S Coupe at $21,860 seems closer to $22,245. Someone find the 0-60 and 1/4 on that monster.
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1996 Camaro 3.8 - previous daily |
10-30-2008, 11:23 PM | #90 |
I used to be Dragoneye...
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10-31-2008, 12:05 AM | #91 |
2010 SIM Beige RS 6M
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It would be a lot better if people who quote BASE prices actually knew what comes in a Honda. You need to 2LT, then "RS" the Camaro at minimum and add a sunroof and others to get close to the V6 standard equipment on the 09 Accord COUPE. The coupe does not share one body panel with the sedan. Price on paper is not the only property a sophisticated buyer is looking for. You still will not get dual zone A/C , Home link, keyless remote windows and more on the Chevy. And the Honda will get you 10% better mileage. ADDS UP AT 4.00 A GALLON.
It appears those who at the ripe old age of 36 who are so closed minded that their "EXPERT" view is the only right one are not one of the wiser more educated examples of "current" consumer that GM is aiming this car at. My son has a "Bow TIE " tattooed on his forearm, but his mind is open enough to realize that if CHEVOLET does not attract current and future buyers with this car it WILL go the same way the 05 GTO went and then GM in less than a decade will go the same way as Chrysler. (BTW his 24 Y/O lady says she thinks the 2010 looks " too for old guys" compared to the Honda. Wait till the YOU TUBE reports come in with some 25 year old who knows how to launch his FWD V6 and speed shifting the close ratio leaves some old 45 year old churning smoke with his BB Camaro (extra cost shifter) who could not hook up. Have a nice day! |
10-31-2008, 12:27 AM | #92 |
I used to be Dragoneye...
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fwiw.....
You don't need RS to get the sunroof, and you get homelink on the 2LT... And I'm not sure where you get the mileage difference...18/27 (Camaro) v 19/28 (Accord V6)...that's maybe 4%. The Camaro also gets a 6-speed auto where the Honda is only equipped with a 5-speed. And I would be willing to bet big money that the Camaro feels 2x as "sporty" when driving than the Honda. Then there's the matter of price: $26,580 for the 2LT Camaro v. $28,805 for the Honda V6. Nearly identical in terms of options. If there was direct cross-shopping, I wonder how many people would be willing to sacrifice dual-zone climate control and keyless windows for $2,000 savings. |
10-31-2008, 12:51 AM | #93 | |
2010 SIM Beige RS 6M
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Quote:
while a new Honda can be had on Ebay any week for $26,000. Does "Sporty' mean heavy?? AS IN 300LBS HEAVIER? |
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10-31-2008, 01:06 AM | #94 | |
I used to be Dragoneye...
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Quote:
Sunroof, okay -- I could give you that, but do 100% of buyers WANT a sunroof? It's a choice thing, imo, as I certainly don't. But Honda stuffs it down your throat, whereas Chevy gives you a choice (that, when added -- STILL keeps the car's price lower than the Accord: it's only a $900 option) "Sporty" as in superior handling, and FEEL. Weight, though still a valid question, seems to become a threshold issue. How much more heavy does a car have to be before one can actually FEEL it? But don't take my word -- go read a few of the Reviews, and speak with just a few of the disciples. The V6 car is a most impressive handler -- worthy of much more than a "base-model" designation. None of the magazines made any mention of the car feeling heavy...none of them. And one magazine went so far as to say the Camaro performed like it was the American-version of the Infiniti G37. When I said that, I was simply reaffirming my faith that this car will deliver in leaps and bounds above what the cynics expect from it. |
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10-31-2008, 02:11 AM | #95 |
2010 SIM Beige RS 6M
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Well there sure has been a lot of discussion for a subject that the 2nd post dismissed!
How times change ...use to be you bought your Chevy for a 100 bucks over invoice and Honda sold at MSRP only. Now they take $3000 off and free NAVI while GM wants MSRP plus Extras . Don't forget to vote !!!!!! GM needs 10 billion . |
10-31-2008, 05:21 AM | #96 | |
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BTW, I don't know who "Scott" is, as I have not been here very long (look at my registration date), nor do I care who Scott is. Nobody else makes my opinions for me or for you. Fact remains, Chevrolet (GM) IS making this car out to be a "muscle car", no matter what GM or anyone else might convey to you. They intentionally came out with a more reliable, more sophisticated Camaro this generation. However, that doesn't change the fact they they gave it a muscle car "retro" design from the original 69 Camaro. It doesn't change the fact that they gave it a retro, muscle car interior. Or the fact that they have the car as RWD, with 300 and 400+ hp options respectfully. The car looks like a muscle car, the cars engine performance is of a muscle car, the interior is of the likeness of a muscle car, and fans of the muscle car are buying this car. Magazines, forums and news are all comparing the 3 muscle cars again (Mustang, Camaro and Challenger). The difference this time around? Reliability, sophistication and handling is actually a part of this muscle car. If it looks like a duck, walks like a duck...... If the car steals sales from other auto manufacturers, including Honda, good for GM. Though GM isn't marketing this car against an Accord Coupe. But, for the record, I will eat crow the day I see GM put an Accord vs. Camaro commercial, ad, reliability comparison or any other car comparison that we have discussed (Altima, Accord). Actually, it wasn't dismissed. Many others have agreed with me as well. Are you just doing some "selective" reading, or only reading what appeals to you? Are you the same guy who keeps sending me Private Messages that don't make any sense? If so, please stop.
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10-31-2008, 06:02 AM | #97 | |
7 year Cancer Survivor!
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Quote:
Yes Camaro is designed to be a Modern day Muscle Car with retro styling cues. The defininion of Muscle Car in my opinion has changed. The origonal Muscle cars were the Chevelles, GTO's, 442s, Torinos, Roadrunners etc, all mid sized cars for their time, with large engines made for drag racing. The Camaro, Mustang, Barracuda, etc were an alternative to the Sports Car. A sporty car for a young Single person or a small family, Husband, Wife and maybe one or two small children... Good handling cars, with plenty of power to do what it was designed for. Now specialty car dealerships took the Camaro and made it into a drag car also. and Chevy helped by supplying the COPO models. But make no mistake the Camaro was first designed to just be a good handling 4 seat sporty car. Market demand later made it into a Muscle car. I believe that a Muscle car today incorporates not only the aspects of a high powered engine, but a sophisticated chassis. Not only will it go fast it will handle well. The New Camaro is Both a Sporty car and a Muscle Car. The V6 is the sporty model, easily being more powerful and better handling than most (but definately not all) the first through 4th gen Camaros. The SS is the Muscel Car High power and handling to match. So comparing with an Accord or Altima, is up to the individual looking for a car that will perfom in the way they want. people have different wants and needs. I knew a guy the Compared a Honda Prelude to a Monte Carlo back in the 90's. and he bought the Honda, and his reason was the Honda handled better... I said why didn't you compare the Prelude to the Camaro, they are in the same market segment, not the Monte Carlo... he just wouldn't answer me... He wanted an excuse to buy the Honda so he compared it to an American car that he knew wouldn't measure up to the aspects he was wanting... People and magazines will do that sometimes to make the car they want to win look better.... For all Newbies....Again I urge you to find out more about Scott. He is a person that has been in on the development of the Camaro from day one... and has been the "Go To Guy" for any questions. Many have been answered already if you want to search a little.
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10-31-2008, 06:53 AM | #98 | |
Quote:
For the record, I am new to this particular forum (because I am getting a new Camaro), but I am not a "newb" to cars, nor the Camaro specifically. So I don't have any "questions" or "answers" that I need to "search" for. I can't wait or the Camaro vs. Accord vs. Altima commercials!
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