[bobby35ny]

Originally Posted by KyleL

I certainly believe them when they say they're doing it to protect the clutch, but it's not as invasive as the c6 zr1 which also had a tr6060, and very similar power, and I assume an equally strong clutch. I find it hard to think they would have put a substantially weaker clutch in a newer version of a product enough to put that much protection of it in the ecu when both engines produce similar power. I don't fully buy into the long first gear claim, bc my m6 c6 would run to 55 in first and the c6z would do 60-62 I believe, both didn't bog down near as bad on the initial launch. I'm not sure about the last gen gt500 or vipers, but they could all reach 60 or close to it in first gear as well

That's also a very good point too as far as et's but, like you said, they're trying to be more realistic with their times. I've read where GM claims their times on corvettes and camaros on unprepped surfaces....which would tie into your point of a realistic time. So you could say they'd do the same for the m6 too, which still wouldn't matter since if they could knock off .3 just by running on a prepped surface in the auto, you could also do it with the manual, which cal has almost already demonstrated exactly with his m6 zl1, knocking .2 off what GM claims.

I completely disagree!
They aren't protecting the clutch, They don't have to warranty that part..
They are protecting the M6 and or the rear end...

OR................................................ ..........

Could be a simple mistake with the programing and they corrected on the 18's. We shall see!!

-Bobby

[Z/Camaro]

I've seen it briefly mentioned twice now that the issue has been fixed for the 2018 but haven't seen data on this. Is this proven?? I would think if the 2018 have been fixed then it would just be a simple reflash for the 2017

[bobby35ny]

Originally Posted by Z/Camaro

I've seen it briefly mentioned twice now that the issue has been fixed for the 2018 but haven't seen data on this. Is this proven?? I would think if the 2018 have been fixed then it would just be a simple reflash for the 2017

I'm going to start a thread for the 18 owners to chime in.

[KyleL]

Originally Posted by bobby35ny

I completely disagree!
They aren't protecting the clutch, They don't have to warranty that part..
They are protecting the M6 and or the rear end...

OR................................................ ..........

Could be a simple mistake with the programing and they corrected on the 18's. We shall see!!

-Bobby

GM has something listed in one of the owners manuals (I'm fairly certain it was the owners manual) as "clutch protection"...cal posted about that on here a while back. But you're right, it's a wearable item and doesn't have to be replaced under warranty. But if they're protecting the transmission, why was it not as invasive on the c6 zr1? Or the viper or the gt500? They all use variants of the tr6060....are the new tremec 6 speed transmissions not as good as the ones they made 5 years ago? The rear end could be a good reason but a lot of people have said the 5th gen zl1 rear is bulletproof, so would you think they've regressed that much for it to be a concern?

I would agree more with a programming issue than any mechanical issue.

[travislambert]

Originally Posted by KyleL

...
Does anyone think this was done not to save the clutch or driveline parts more so than it was to make the a10 look that much better on paper? And that in an effort to do this, compromised safety/driveability aspects in addition to performance?...

I've had similar thoughts, but after meeting with the engineers a couple times I don't believe they purposely sabotaged the M6 software. I'm guessing that the development effort was primarily focused on the A10, which resulted in a few issues being overlooked with the M6.

Originally Posted by KyleL

GM has something listed in one of the owners manuals (I'm fairly certain it was the owners manual) as "clutch protection"...cal posted about that on here a while back. But you're right, it's a wearable item and doesn't have to be replaced under warranty. But if they're protecting the transmission, why was it not as invasive on the c6 zr1? Or the viper or the gt500? They all use variants of the tr6060....are the new tremec 6 speed transmissions not as good as the ones they made 5 years ago? The rear end could be a good reason but a lot of people have said the 5th gen zl1 rear is bulletproof, so would you think they've regressed that much for it to be a concern?

I would agree more with a programming issue than any mechanical issue.

When clutch protection is triggered it's accompanied by a message to the user. Also, the clutch protection theory really doesn't account for the fact that once the clutch is dumped on a launch, the damage is mostly done. Pulling power after the fact, only helps if the clutch is slipping which that doesn't seem to be the case from my experience. And the clutch protection theory doesn't account for the car occasionally bucking after a gentle takeoff.

I really don't think we need any more theories unless someone knows a reason why the wheel slip % theory is wrong. The wheel slip % theory I documented matches real world observations perfectly in both the hard launch and gentle takeoff scenarios.

Originally Posted by Z/Camaro

I've seen it briefly mentioned twice now that the issue has been fixed for the 2018 but haven't seen data on this. Is this proven?? I would think if the 2018 have been fixed then it would just be a simple reflash for the 2017

I was told personally by Jim Karlavage (Camaro Program Engineering Manager) that the '18s coming off the line had new M6 drivability fixes that the '17s do not. My take on it is that the Wheel Slip % issue is at least partially addressed on the '18s. However, launching the car is still going to be at least a little problematic due to the restrictiveness of the default torque management coefficients.

My '17 ZL1 was fitted with the Control Tec to capture logs for the purpose of comparing the issue with the fixes already in place for the '18s. My understanding is that the '17s will be getting the fixes from the '18s either way, but if a new issue is captured in the logs, a fix for the new issue will be included as well.

[Ron66Vette&10SS]

Originally Posted by travislambert

My understanding is that the '17s will be getting the fixes from the '18s either way, but if a new issue is captured in the logs, a fix for the new issue will be included as well.

Man, I hope you understood right!

Thanks for the time & effort you've put into this (to include contacting/pestering Chevy) to get this looked into.....hopefully we'll get a good fix out of it.

[BMWM.D.]

I actually already posted a thread looking for feedback from 2018 M6 owners. Didn't get much.

Have any of you watched the Smoking Tire ZL1 1LE review? It sure looks like the car he was driving still had some driveability issues. Matt seemed to think it was a clutch engagement characteristic, but I'm thinking it's the same thing the 2017 owners are complaining about.

[travislambert]

Originally Posted by Ron66Vette&10SS

Man, I hope you understood right!

Thanks for the time & effort you've put into this (to include contacting/pestering Chevy) to get this looked into.....hopefully we'll get a good fix out of it.

Me too!

I'm glad to do what I can to help. Of course, we can only lead the GM horse to water. We're all at the mercy of the engineers. I really hope they come through for us.

[travislambert]

Originally Posted by BMWM.D.

...
Have any of you watched the Smoking Tire ZL1 1LE review? It sure looks like the car he was driving still had some driveability issues. Matt seemed to think it was a clutch engagement characteristic, but I'm thinking it's the same thing the 2017 owners are complaining about.
...

Yeah, that's the thing about this problem. It really takes some experience with the car to realize the issue isn't the driver, engagement point, first gear ratio, etc.. At first I blamed myself and chalked it up to not being used to the car. It took me a few months to realize the problem is a software issue. Maybe the engineers testing the car noticed the problem, but also blamed themselves.

Honestly, I'm not convinced the '18s are 100% fixed either. I know what I was told, but at the same time there are at least a few videos to the contrary. Let's hope the engineers have an epiphany when they evaluate the logs from my car.

[bobby35ny]

I updated the other thread with the latest video!!

[travislambert]

The control tec was removed from my car this morning. This afternoon a GM rep told me there was a problem and no data was captured. I understand that things like this happen, but I'm a little frustrated that nobody checked for the existence of logs prior to the removal of the device.

Basically they want to start over next week.

[17CamaroZL1]

Wow! That sucks!!

[Gunkk]

Well that's a big fat

[Shorty45]

If they need another test platform, I'll volunteer. I PMd you a sample video from Va 1/2 mile.