06-25-2014, 08:52 AM | #1 |
Drives: pony Join Date: Aug 2013
Location: us
Posts: 3
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vs. Old School Muscle
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Last edited by 2013 RaceRed 5.0; 07-04-2014 at 10:38 AM. |
06-25-2014, 08:56 AM | #2 |
Drives: Alot Join Date: Mar 2013
Location: Norcalifas
Posts: 1,337
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Love old school but damn they were some boats!!
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06-25-2014, 11:09 AM | #3 |
Drives: 2012 2SS 45TH Anniversary Join Date: Mar 2012
Location: Kentucky
Posts: 720
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Yes but considering most of them are 40 years old...
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06-25-2014, 11:17 AM | #4 |
Drives: 2015 SS 1LE Red Hot, 1970 Chevelle Join Date: Apr 2012
Location: Chino, CA
Posts: 6,987
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The problem is the old muscle cars were rated gross power instead of net like newer engines so they produce less power in the car than the advertisements said. I saw were an LS6 Chevelle dyno'd around 255 hp to the wheels through a 3 speed auto.
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06-25-2014, 11:46 AM | #5 |
Drives: 21 Bronco Join Date: Jun 2012
Location: Carol Stream
Posts: 6,023
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Lets also not forget the pathetic excuses they had for tires back then too....
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06-25-2014, 11:48 AM | #6 |
Drives: 2010 aqua blue SS/RS M6 Join Date: Feb 2010
Location: plainfield, IL
Posts: 2,706
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But also much easier to tune, with some adjustments and tires some of those cars are very fast for what they are. After so many years a 430hp camaro better be faster then a stock 70!
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10.91 at 122 H/C stock block N/A
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06-25-2014, 01:01 PM | #7 |
Drives: 2010 ZR1 "Satan" Join Date: Nov 2013
Location: Norco, CA
Posts: 1,183
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First, when you are looking at Horsepower, you are looking at trap speeds. Crappy tires and poor 60' times have almost no effect on trap speeds.
This is why the NHRA rules are what they are. Cars that could hit 100mph were considered at risk. This could happen at 14.0, so hence the 13.99 Helmet Rule. Cars that could hit 120mph (11.99 then 11.49 later) were considered race cars, hence the rollbar, 5-pt, and fire jacket. Cars that could hit 140mph (9.99) were considered animals. Full cage, fire system, etc. I was racing motorcycles back then, and if I could click off a 12.90 with a license plate, I knew few cars with a license plate and street tires were going to catch me. Imagine my surprise when in 2000, I took a bone stock Camaro SS to Carlsbad, spun the tires in 1st and 2nd, picked up the timeslip and it said 13.85@107.44 mph. :eek: Really? OMG!!! Wait. This thing is badged at 320HP!!! WTF??? DOT race tires and minor tweaks had the SS running 12.52@111mph in street trim on pump gas. No engine mods, no headers, factory muffler, through the cats. (For those really curious 4th gen guys: M6 car, shifted at 6500rpm. Skinnies up front, M&H DOT's in back, remove spare, remove passenger seat, FastToys intake, larger Y-pipe, "Zed-Style" cutout, platinum plugs, bumped limiter to 6600rpm, richened it up, a little more timing in areas, 160°F thermostat. 343rwhp.)
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2002 Z06 "Blue Meanie" 11.36 ET
2003 Z06 in progress 2009 CTS-V "Spooky" 12.36 ET, bone stock at 1600 mi. Rainy day in Sacramento. Sadness. 2010 ZR1 "Satan" no times yet. 2013 Volt SCCA Solo2 #771 HS3. And a bunch of Duramaxes. |
06-25-2014, 06:01 PM | #8 |
Drives: 2010 ZR1 "Satan" Join Date: Nov 2013
Location: Norco, CA
Posts: 1,183
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The 1967 Z/28 weighed within 100lb of the 1998 Z/28.
The 290HP DZ engine could just barely hit 101mph. The 305HP LS1 engine could tag 107mph. That's huge. The 67 Z/28 was a bunch faster than many other cars of the same weight with more brochure HP. There was a lot of debate in the late 90's whether the new cars were as fast as the cars of the Musclecar Era. 15 years later, that discussion is settled.
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2002 Z06 "Blue Meanie" 11.36 ET
2003 Z06 in progress 2009 CTS-V "Spooky" 12.36 ET, bone stock at 1600 mi. Rainy day in Sacramento. Sadness. 2010 ZR1 "Satan" no times yet. 2013 Volt SCCA Solo2 #771 HS3. And a bunch of Duramaxes. |
06-26-2014, 06:30 AM | #9 | |
Drives: 2013 A6 GT 5.0 Join Date: Nov 2009
Location: Edmond, OK
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Quote:
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BLK/BLK 1SS/RS Ordered 11-01-2009 Took delivery 12-22-2009. Heads/cam/converter/bolt ons. SOLD Feb 2015 to fund 6th gen LT1 SS with 8L90E.
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06-26-2014, 06:46 AM | #10 |
Drives: 2002 ws6 Join Date: Jul 2009
Location: manitoba
Posts: 1,202
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there was a lot of love for the old muscle cars for a long time. sure, the best ones struggled to run 13's, but look what happened from the mid 70's to mid 80's--- a lot of cars that struggled to break into the 15's or even 16's. so the old muscle cars were simply rockets compared to that.
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Bolt on 2002 ls1 Trans am--- 11.5 @ 121 (1.72) 2000 da
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06-26-2014, 08:54 AM | #11 |
Drives: 2010 ZR1 "Satan" Join Date: Nov 2013
Location: Norco, CA
Posts: 1,183
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13.8? for the '98 Z/28? Only under the worst conditions. Yeah, I ran a 13.85 first pass ever in a car. By the end of that day, I was about 13.3.
In fact, Popular Mechanics put one in the 12's during their review of the LS1 Fbody. The trick at the time was to put a stock F-body in the 12's. In 2001, the trick became to put the stock LS6 Vettes (Z06's) into the 11's. The modern HP wars started in 1990, when GM released the 32v Mercury Marine DOHC V8 in their ZR-1 Corvette, but unlike the 60's, it was not affordable to the masses. It would take the release of the LS1 engine in C5 '97, then the LS1 F-body the next year to make 12 second cars that were affordable. It would take Ford another 5 years to make an affordable hypercar, the 03 Cobra. While they did release the 2000 Cobra-R, only 300 were made, and priced accordingly. Dodge was the last to get in the fray with the release of their new "Hemi" (not a hemi).
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2002 Z06 "Blue Meanie" 11.36 ET
2003 Z06 in progress 2009 CTS-V "Spooky" 12.36 ET, bone stock at 1600 mi. Rainy day in Sacramento. Sadness. 2010 ZR1 "Satan" no times yet. 2013 Volt SCCA Solo2 #771 HS3. And a bunch of Duramaxes. |
06-26-2014, 01:58 PM | #12 | |
Drives: 11 F150 EB/13 Sonic RS/15 Z06 Join Date: Sep 2010
Location: Little Rock, AR
Posts: 7,129
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AND, the modern muscle era began with the '87 Buick Grand National. Chevrolet, Ford and Dodge were scrambling to catch up.
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New Ride -- 2015 Z06 2LZ (stock) -- Journal
Old Ride -- 2012 Camaro 2LT/RS (647 RWHP & 726 RWTQ) -- Build Thread |
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06-26-2014, 02:18 PM | #13 |
Despite the short comings of old school muscle, that is exactly what led to the era of Pro Touring.
Probably one of the most BAD ASS aspects of old school muscle. I'm relatively young but my dad built a pro touring '67 camaro with a chevy big block and custom fabricated EVERYTHING. It's fast, handles beautifully and in my opinion, taht is what old school muscle is all about! Moving with the times. |
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06-27-2014, 11:23 AM | #14 | |
Drives: 2010 ZR1 "Satan" Join Date: Nov 2013
Location: Norco, CA
Posts: 1,183
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Quote:
Both Popular Mechanics (Firebird Formula WS6) and another mag (Z28) put LS1 Fbodies into the high 12's in reviews. It only took us tires to go 12.89. No sticky tracks in the area. The 12.89 was clicked off at Carlsbad (RIP) that had grass growing in the lanes. Then minor changes dropped another .37 seconds off the time. However the Goodyear OEM tires could not do it without a LOT of VHT. A lot of "hotshoes" put their F-bodies in the 12's with no modifications, or so they said. Well over 100 "stock" fbodies were in 12 second club back then. This has been debated as much as the 11 Second C5 Vettes. Which absolutely do exist. My wife put a 2002 stock Z06 into the 11's at Fontana and got us kicked off the track. At least a dozen people put them into the 11's. Now wait. 385HP or 405HP should not be able to do that. To put it bluntly, there were some techniques that allowed it, just like the Fbodies. No modifications, just tricks. Due to heat soak of the metal around the IAT sensor, you had to keep the TB cold. That was worth .4 seconds and 4 mph alone. Running gasoline with no ethanol in it helped as well.
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2002 Z06 "Blue Meanie" 11.36 ET
2003 Z06 in progress 2009 CTS-V "Spooky" 12.36 ET, bone stock at 1600 mi. Rainy day in Sacramento. Sadness. 2010 ZR1 "Satan" no times yet. 2013 Volt SCCA Solo2 #771 HS3. And a bunch of Duramaxes. |
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