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Old 11-21-2014, 10:09 AM   #2493
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Originally Posted by SEVEN-OH JOE View Post
And this has been duplicated, out in the wild, by whom? Where? When?
hasn't been yet. Curious to see what owners get now that the cars are starting to get delivered.
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Old 11-21-2014, 11:56 AM   #2494
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Originally Posted by cal45 View Post
The 8 speed auto runs 11.2 on factory tires, 10.9 on drag radials per SRT CEO Tim Kuniskis.
We are comparing M6 vs M6. Which was the majority transmission that was ordered for the first allocation.
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Old 11-21-2014, 12:01 PM   #2495
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Originally Posted by rocket403 View Post
Numbers that I found from 60mph were

MT 97' Z28
MT 106' ZL1 Convertable
MT 108' ZL1 Coupe

AW 102 and 105 Hellcat
Hmmmm cherry pick much? MotorTrend has the ZL1 braking far shorter than the Hellcat.

http://www.motortrend.com/roadtests/...cat/specs.html
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Old 11-21-2014, 12:09 PM   #2496
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Originally Posted by rocket403 View Post
11.4 Has been seen at the track, so in the spring or down south over the winter someone or group will get there.
Pre-production mule, one night by one driver, that may NOT have been EPA-compliant or "production-tuned". Save your raving for production line versions.

And, of course, there's that problem of getting 6-speeds out of the 12's. Fodder for GT500s.

BTW, the "11.2-11.0-10.9-10.8" times from FCA were ALL mules, not as-assembled in Brampton.
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Old 11-21-2014, 12:15 PM   #2497
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All were from MT Just what I came across didn't cherry pick

Z/28 http://www.motortrend.com/roadtests/...28_first_test/

ZL1
http://www.motortrend.com/roadtests/...le_first_test/
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Old 11-21-2014, 12:20 PM   #2498
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Originally Posted by SEVEN-OH JOE View Post
Pre-production mule, one night by one driver, that may NOT have been EPA-compliant or "production-tuned". Save your raving for production line versions.

And, of course, there's that problem of getting 6-speeds out of the 12's. Fodder for GT500s.

BTW, the "11.2-11.0-10.9-10.8" times from FCA were ALL mules, not as-assembled in Brampton.
When the mag's or people that have taken delivery of the Hellcats take them and run 11's what are you going to say then, as of right now Edmonds has run a 11.4 at the track.
So you what you are saying is that you don't think the car will make the times posted by Dodge?

Even the Mules ran down the same Line unless Dodge pulled a nasty and took the cars and made them ringers, that is what you have implied with the mules.
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Old 11-21-2014, 12:24 PM   #2499
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SEVEN-OH JOE View Post
Pre-production mule, one night by one driver, that may NOT have been EPA-compliant or "production-tuned". Save your raving for production line versions.

And, of course, there's that problem of getting 6-speeds out of the 12's. Fodder for GT500s.

BTW, the "11.2-11.0-10.9-10.8" times from FCA were ALL mules, not as-assembled in Brampton.
Hey Joe, just got ask 2 things. IF we start seeing those times come in from the Hellcat from real owners what will you say.

Also say when the Z06 gets released to the media, and just say they can't run the 10.95 on street tires that GM says it will run are you gonna have the same attitude towards the Z06 or no bc GM didn't make a big deal about it like Dodge did?
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Old 11-21-2014, 12:34 PM   #2500
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Originally Posted by shaffe View Post
Hey Joe, just got ask 2 things. IF we start seeing those times come in from the Hellcat from real owners what will you say.

Also say when the Z06 gets released to the media, and just say they can't run the 10.95 on street tires that GM says it will run are you gonna have the same attitude towards the Z06 or no bc GM didn't make a big deal about it like Dodge did?
I'd quote 1QwikZ28 who schooled me with regard to Chevy's 11.93 ZL1 claim (below). The emission legal red key tune wasn't final until recently so we need to see some new magazine runs...no?
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Show me one third party video showing stock 11 sec ZL1s . Not a bs video from GM or a video from private owners (they have their own agenda).
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Old 11-21-2014, 12:41 PM   #2501
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Originally Posted by hotlapZL1 View Post
I'd quote 1QwikZ28 who schooled me with regard to Chevy's 11.93 ZL1 claim (below). The emission legal red key tune wasn't final until recently so we need to see some new magazine runs...no?
The ZL1 things has been beat to death, but if I recall correctly there have been stock ZL1s to dip into the 11s, I see where SEVEN-OH-JOE is arguing about the Hellcats, none of the mag reviews came close except the cars.com which had actual video, his posts come off as if the car can't do it, which is why i asked about IF real owners do it will he change his tune.

the reason I brought up the Z06, is we have seen nothing, no tests, no third party tests. Just a press release from GM and a power point that says it will the 1/4 in 10.95 on stock tires, yet I don't see anyone here question that even though we havent seen one do it yet
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Old 11-21-2014, 12:57 PM   #2502
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Originally Posted by rocket403 View Post
When the mag's or people that have taken delivery of the Hellcats take them and run 11's what are you going to say then, as of right now Edmonds has run a 11.4 at the track.
So you what you are saying is that you don't think the car will make the times posted by Dodge?

Even the Mules ran down the same Line unless Dodge pulled a nasty and took the cars and made them ringers, that is what you have implied with the mules.
Remember the buzz you guys made when it was "leaked" that there were 800 hp Hellcats running around? What happened to those cars? Were they also mules? Were they sprinkled amongst the early-build press fleet? Is that what "Edmunds" got to test? Who knows for sure? Long-lead numbers, regardless of source or manufacturers, are always good for chest-thumping. Will the actual production versions match those numbers? Only time (pun intended) will tell.

Quote:
Originally Posted by shaffe View Post
Hey Joe, just got ask 2 things. IF we start seeing those times come in from the Hellcat from real owners what will you say.
See above.

Quote:
Also say when the Z06 gets released to the media, and just say they can't run the 10.95 on street tires that GM says it will run are you gonna have the same attitude towards the Z06 or no bc GM didn't make a big deal about it like Dodge did?
See above. But I seriously suspect the Z06 has a MUCH better chance, on its Z07 rubber, of duplicating those numbers than the Hellcat does. Don't you?

Hellcat Charger: 4560 lb/707hp = 6.45 lb/hp; 54/46% distribution; 275/40X20s (rear)

2015 Z06/Z07: 3524lb/650hp = 5.42 lb/hp; near-50/50 distribution; 335/25X20 Sport Cups (rear)

Again, time will tell.
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Old 11-21-2014, 01:06 PM   #2503
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Originally Posted by shaffe View Post
I see where SEVEN-OH-JOE is arguing about the Hellcats, none of the mag reviews came close except the cars.com which had actual video, his posts come off as if the car can't do it, which is why i asked about IF real owners do it will he change his tune.
You were one of the people that stated Great Lakes was a less-than-ideal track, with less-than-ideal prep, especially on a test 'n tune night that the Hellcat was supposedly video'd at. Yet that time remains the high water mark, not approached by anyone else within 2/10ths. At the time it was mentioned that maybe, just maybe, the track WAS well-prepped for its honored guest AND maybe the car was not a true production-tuned version. "Oh no, can't be!", said the Hellcat hellians. Well, there are no other times in the '50s or 40s, let alone the '20s or below.

Time will tell.
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Old 11-21-2014, 01:11 PM   #2504
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Originally Posted by hotlapZL1 View Post
The emission legal red key tune wasn't final until recently so we need to see some new magazine runs...no?
Ooooooh, no way! FCA wouldn't fudge the numbers just to get all the buzz they've got for these things, would they? Emission compliance has NOTHING to do with anything, you understand. Don't you?

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Old 11-21-2014, 01:21 PM   #2505
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Originally Posted by rocket403 View Post
Looks like the Hellcat has a better stopping distance than the ZL1 102' from 60mph
All kinds of ignorance in this statement. The only head-to-head comparison showed the ZL1 stopped in 100ft vs 109ft for the Failcat.
http://www.motortrend.com/roadtests/...cat/specs.html

Quote:
Originally Posted by rocket403 View Post
When the mag's or people that have taken delivery of the Hellcats take them and run 11's what are you going to say then, as of right now Edmonds has run a 11.4 at the track.
So you what you are saying is that you don't think the car will make the times posted by Dodge?
Edmunds never ran 11.4 at the track. Please stop spreading lies. Edmunds ran 12.5 @ 118.8mph in a manual transmission car.
http://www.edmunds.com/dodge/challen...road-test.html

The 11.4 you're talking about was the onboard estimate when they drove the pre-production press car at a media event. Real world times have been nowhere near this number.

MotorTrend: 0-60, 3.7sec; 1/4mile 11.7 @ 125.4mph; 4449lbs automatic
Car&Driver: 0-60, 3.6sec; 1/4mile 11.7 @ 126mph; 4488lbs automatic
Edmunds: 0-60, 4.8sec; 1/4mile 12.5 @ 118.8mph; 4454lbs
Road&Track: 0-60, 3.9sec; 1/4mile 12.0 @ 124.8mph; 4458lbs


Quote:
Originally Posted by shaffe View Post
Hey Joe, just got ask 2 things. IF we start seeing those times come in from the Hellcat from real owners what will you say.

Also say when the Z06 gets released to the media, and just say they can't run the 10.95 on street tires that GM says it will run are you gonna have the same attitude towards the Z06 or no bc GM didn't make a big deal about it like Dodge did?
Won't speak for Joe but marketing numbers are meaningless. Under ideal conditions with a supposedly stock car and average driver we achieved XX. Doesn't mean much to me. Independent reviews will shed some light on what consumers can expect when cars start being delivered. Some owners will slightly exceed reviewer times and some will be the same or slower.

Take the ZL1 for example.
Car&Driver: 0-60, 4.1sec; 1/4mile 12.3 @ 119mph; 4120lbs
MotorTrend: 0-60, 3.8sec; 1/4mile 12.1 @ 117.4mph; 4051lbs
Edmunds: 0-60, 4.1sec, 1/4mile 12.4 @ 116.0mph
Road&Track: 0-60, 3.9sec, 1/4mile 12.1 @ 119.9mph
MotorTrend: 0-60, 3.9sec, 1/4mile 12.2 @ 116.6mph; 4051lbs

The average magazine review based on results above ran 12.22 @ 117.8mph. The ZL1 fast list on Camaro5 shows a distribution from 11.6 @ 120mph to 12.6 @ 112mph with a mean of 12.10 @ 117.7mph.

People love to trash independent reviews and say real world results will be faster. That may be true in 0.001% of cases but when you look at the "hero-times" fast-list posted on Mustang, Challenger, Camaro forums, the average "hero time" falls within one-tenth and 1 mph of independent reviews.
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Old 11-21-2014, 01:28 PM   #2506
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Originally Posted by SEVEN-OH JOE View Post
You were one of the people that stated Great Lakes was a less-than-ideal track, with less-than-ideal prep, especially on a test 'n tune night that the Hellcat was supposedly video'd at. Yet that time remains the high water mark, not approached by anyone else within 2/10ths. At the time it was mentioned that maybe, just maybe, the track WAS well-prepped for its honored guest AND maybe the car was not a true production-tuned version. "Oh no, can't be!", said the Hellcat hellians. Well, there are no other times in the '50s or 40s, let alone the '20s or below.

Time will tell.
Dam the car has just begun being delivered, and only 6-speeds at this point, give it some time. Also when has a magazine ¼ mile test been the say all for actual times? Cars.com had the balls to actually take the car to a prepped track on a street night and ran several 11:40s with the driver acknowledging that he was unsure and inexperienced as to how to launch the car. The rest of the testing has been done in press pool sessions with folks who have no idea how to launch such a high horsepower vehicle. Give owners some seat time and and you will see the low 11s advertised by the automatic cars.

A perfect example is the 2012 Z06 Motortrend ran the car to a best of 11:90s, when owners took delivery these times quickly fell into low 11s and may have actually dipped into the 10s. With the logic posted in here there is no way to assume the Z06 is any faster than 11:90s correct?

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